M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

Cookiemunster · 10-03-2021 6:28pm

kub wrote: »

I thought this was being paid for by EU funds under something called Ten-T ?

If that is the case then surely funding is not a worry.

Partially paid for. The Irish exchequer will still be paying for the majority of it.

Cork Trucker · 10-03-2021 7:17pm

anacc wrote: »

That's not it. That's an active Roadstone quarry and the M28 goes nowhere near it.

I didn’t read the rest of the replies, just that one.

spacetweek · 13-03-2021 10:28pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Partially paid for. The Irish exchequer will still be paying for the majority of it.

Indeed - EU funding is overrated - I believe we'll only get 10%.

CrabRevolution · 19-03-2021 1:47pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Indeed - EU funding is overrated - I believe we'll only get 10%.

Agreed. People seem to think EU funding comes from a bountiful money tree, to be harvested whenever the Irish government don't want to pay for something themselves. It's really more of a top-up for projects that complement overall European goals, with the state still doing the heavy lifting.

'EU Funding' is also often suggested to try and justify totally unviable or low priority projects, because it's seen as a way of bypassing "them up in Dublin who hate the West/South/North/East". The logic being that their pet project is inherently viable and only gets rejected because of biased politicians, and that these wise EU level decision makers, unclouded by this bias will judge the project worthwhile.

riddlinrussell · 19-03-2021 1:59pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Agreed. People seem to think EU funding comes from a bountiful money tree, to be harvested whenever the Irish government don't want to pay for something themselves. It's really more of a top-up for projects that complement overall European goals, with the state still doing the heavy lifting.

'EU Funding' is also often suggested to try and justify totally unviable or low priority projects, because it's seen as a way of bypassing "them up in Dublin who hate the West/South/North/East". The logic being that their pet project is inherently viable and only gets rejected because of biased politicians, and that these wise EU level decision makers, unclouded by this bias will judge the project worthwhile.

It is context/country dependent also though. Some countries are heavily inclined to invest in certain areas, the EU often takes a more 'balanced' approach as it doesn't have the same political baggage etc to deal with, so they can more freely 'encourage' development in underdeveloped regions. It can also provide political cover for a government who genuinely might want to improve a region but its politically difficult to justify, so they can say "project will receive EU funding" and mollify people.

Its a useful tool to have and of course also helps strengthen overall ties between EU nations and the overall prosperity of the bloc

CrabRevolution · 19-03-2021 5:22pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

It is context/country dependent also though. Some countries are heavily inclined to invest in certain areas, the EU often takes a more 'balanced' approach as it doesn't have the same political baggage etc to deal with, so they can more freely 'encourage' development in underdeveloped regions. It can also provide political cover for a government who genuinely might want to improve a region but its politically difficult to justify, so they can say "project will receive EU funding" and mollify people.

Its a useful tool to have and of course also helps strengthen overall ties between EU nations and the overall prosperity of the bloc

I agree with the principle that you describe, and understand funds being used to even up imbalances. But too often I see "EU funding" being thrown out in desperation after all national appraisals have rejected the proposal, thinking the EU will somehow see silk purse potential in their sows ear of a project.

riddlinrussell · 19-03-2021 5:33pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I agree with the principle that you describe, and understand funds being used to even up imbalances. But too often I see "EU funding" being thrown out in desperation after all national appraisals have rejected the proposal, thinking the EU will somehow see silk purse potential in their sows ear of a project.

Oh definitely, thankfully the EU are good at producing fairly clear cut criteria, in infrastructure, for example, the Ten-T Network is well defined so only those routes will get funding under that stream.

cc · 23-04-2021 8:12am

Two serious incidents yesterday as traffic levels return to normal on Carr's Hill. Hopefully all ok.

Chris_5339762 · 23-04-2021 4:12pm

People were crashing all over the place yesterday, it was bonkers. Also a crash outbound at Little Island, and then when I was coming home there was one going inbound. Not sure what was in the air.

AugustusMinimus · 23-04-2021 4:37pm

The standard of driving has nose dived since COVID. Nearly had a person come at me head on earlier today.

blindsider · 24-04-2021 7:05pm

The pinch points on this road, for me, are:

Towards Carrigaline:

- End of the Climbing lane at the top of the hill (medium impact)

- Traffic in and out of the filling station - sudden braking, cars exiting dangerously, people crossing the road, trucks parked on the hard shoulder (high impact)

- Shanbally roundabout - the usual mix of drivers who don't know how how to use a roundabout

Towards Cork:

- Shanbally - as above

- the climbing lane which people use to pass queueing traffic, causing frustration, and forcing their way in to single lane again (medium impact)

- The Bloomfield interchange - cars swapping lanes in a complete mess (potentially severe impact)

IMO:

Sort out the filling station - no turning into it from Carrigaline direction, and mark out entry/exit lanes on the southbound carriageway. Stop haphazard, dangerous and illegal parking just outside the site.

Re-visit the Bloomfield interchange - look a the lanes and markings again - surely an expert can come up with a better paln.

Is the m/way built yet?

:eek:

Chris_5339762 · 24-04-2021 9:31pm

... and also that for the region it serves, the road just doesn't have the capacity for the traffic it needs to carry. Narrow S2 just isn't enough.

Edit: And its also not suitable as the route to Ringaskiddy port.

Think of all of the new routes Rosslare got due to Brexit. Cork got none. That is due to geography but also due to the capacity of the N28.

mikeym · 24-04-2021 9:42pm

The existing N28 cant cope with the huge volume of traffic.

Ive said this numerous times over the years along with other people using that road.

Another pinch point is the sliproad coming onto the N28 from Maryborough Hill, its too short.

Theres more and more houses popping up in the Maryborough Hill area which will lead to increased traffic, A M28 along with a decent link road should help the problem but the Nimby Brigade got the project delayed by several years much to everyones annoyance.

AugustusMinimus · 24-04-2021 9:56pm

mikeym wrote: »

The existing N28 cant cope with the huge volume of traffic.

Ive said this numerous times over the years along with other people using that road.

Another pinch point is the sliproad coming onto the N28 from Maryborough Hill, its too short.

Theres more and more houses popping up in the Maryborough Hill area which will lead to increased traffic, A M28 along with a decent link road should help the problem but the Nimby Brigade got the project delayed by several years much to everyones annoyance.

Part of the purpose of the new road was to improve connectivity around Douglas and Rochestown. Half they’re argument was to say that it would result in traffic chaos which is nonsense.

blindsider · 24-04-2021 11:50pm

The existing road definitely can't cope! My suggestions above are sticking plaster on a bandage on an old wound...

@Mikeym - 100% correct - I omitted that one.

I guess my point is, that the Motorway is 7 yrs away - some of these points above could be implelemnted over the summer (when traffic is lighter) before a full return to traffic peaks in September - why not introduce small, cost-effective and non-disruptive improvements now, rather than waiting for 2027/8 ......

anyone have contacts in TII or Cork City Council?

_Kaiser_ · 25-04-2021 5:40pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The standard of driving has nose dived since COVID. Nearly had a person come at me head on earlier today.

This is a very valid point. Driving is a skill, and like any skill it needs regular practise to be good at it. With so many now stuck at home or their immediate locality for the last year, it's probably not surprising that the standard has so noticeably fallen.

(of course, this will be used to justify more anti-car measures as Dublin CC are at at the moment)

Completely agree with the suggestions/observations above though. I'm in that area a fair bit (although not for a few months) and that stretch of the N28 from the roundabout to the flyover/top of the hill is shockingly bad. Unless it's changed recently, the piss-poor surfacing has been an issue as long as I've used it, the merge lanes are a mess, and I have no notion what the intent was with the lane marking as you get to the roundabout. It turns into a race to not get stuck at the pinch point on the Carrigaline entry and not get side-swiped by cars wandering between the lanes on the turn.

I always liken the N40-N28 exit to the M50-N7 on one side, and the N28-N40 as the Liffey Valley merge to the N4 on the other. A complete mess of traffic trying to get across multiple lanes in the same limited time/space. How any of these junctions were approved is a mystery.

I do have to say though that one thing that ALWAYS stands out to me about driving around Cork and that area in particular is the lack of use of indicators - especially with the number of roundabouts in Carrigaline. It's not exclusively a Cork issue of course, but it does seem to be very bad IMO.

Pos087 · 29-04-2021 10:39pm

Heard the motorway is starting in a years time from sales rep of suppliers

Hibernicis · 29-04-2021 10:49pm

Pos087 wrote: »

Heard the motorway is starting in a years time from sales rep of suppliers

Depending on what is meant by "starting" that's more or less in line with what was expected, a bit earlier if it means actual construction.

Pos087 · 29-04-2021 11:06pm

Hibernicis wrote: »

Depending on what is meant by "starting" that's more or less in line with what was expected, a bit earlier if it means actual construction.

Hi. He says there is a year left in dunkettle and construction moving to Ringaskiddy road then. I for one am delighted. Travel from Ringaskiddy to the city everyday. Takes the trucks away from our front doors on the Main Street Ringaskiddy. Planning permission for the new dock yard was that trucks would use new entrance at the start of Ringaskiddy. To be fair a lot of drivers use this entrance but many use the one at far side of Ringaskiddy driving through the village.

Cookiemunster · 30-04-2021 7:27am

Isn't there supposed to be a 2-3 years of preparatory works, with actual construction not due to begin until after then?

Work won't automatically move from Dunkettle either as there's no guarantee that the same contractor will get the contract.

AugustusMinimus · 30-04-2021 10:22am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Isn't there supposed to be a 2-3 years of preparatory works, with actual construction not due to begin until after then?

Work won't automatically move from Dunkettle either as there's no guarantee that the same contractor will get the contract.

Of course. The comments above are complete conjecture / pub talk.

mydiscworld · 30-04-2021 10:45am

So what is happening right now?

Preparing tender documentation for prelim works?

Pos087 · 30-04-2021 10:51am

mydiscworld wrote: »

So what is happening right now?

Preparing tender documentation for prelim works?

They were staking out the Ringaskiddy end last month. Not sure if this is being done the length of the road or not

Pete_Cavan · 30-04-2021 9:26pm

Would it be possible to build the non-motorway part at Ringaskiddy on its own and later build the motorway after enabling works have been completed?

spacetweek · 03-05-2021 5:28pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Would it be possible to build the non-motorway part at Ringaskiddy on its own and later build the motorway after enabling works have been completed?

That would require splitting the project which is almost always a bad idea.

Hibernicis · 05-05-2021 1:15pm

Finally, the Supreme Court's determination on the petition for leave to appeal to the Supreme Court has been uploaded to the courts.ie website. The determination is short and to the point and is available here

Bear in mind that this wasn't a hearing in relation to the road, it was a panel meeting (of three Supreme Court Judges, including the Chief Justice on this occasion) to consider whether or not the M28 shower's application raised exceptional circumstances warranting a direct appeal to the Supreme Court. As we already knew the panel decided, in the plainest terms, that it didn't thereby vindicating Justice Michael McGrath's original decision in the High Court and also his refusal to allow an appeal to the Court of Appeal.

As expected, the petition made no mention whatsoever of the multitude of spurious emotional issues concocted by the steering group over the years. The grounds related exclusively to Ballyhemiken quarry. The determination also cast new light on the issue of the quarry extraction rate which Harrington referred to in his final statement of failure in which he warned that he would, like the Skibereen Eagle, be watching. It will be interesting to see how TII handle this going forward.

cantalach · 05-05-2021 4:09pm

Hibernicis wrote: »

The grounds related exclusively to Ballyhemiken quarry. The determination also cast new light on the issue of the quarry extraction rate which Harrington referred to in his final statement of failure in which he warned that he would, like the Skibereen Eagle, be watching. It will be interesting to see how TII handle this going forward.

So in layman's terms, the SC has said that anybody is free to bring fresh proceedings if extraction at the quarry exceeds what is authorised under a 2008 planning decision, but this has nothing to do with the M28 planning application?

Treehelpplease · 06-05-2021 8:09pm

i was on Maryborough hill for the first time in a while today. The old house by the link road to the N28 looks like it is being torn down. There are barriers up, I saw furniture outside, the upstairs windows were opened and there were high vis visible

kub · 06-05-2021 10:03pm

Treehelpplease wrote: »

i was on Maryborough hill for the first time in a while today. The old house by the link road to the N28 looks like it is being torn down. There are barriers up, I saw furniture outside, the upstairs windows were opened and there were high vis visible

I was told recently that teenagers had accessed that house and were doing as they do in there so it needed to be secured.

marno21 · 30-06-2021 11:58pm

Tender out for archaelogical consultancy services for the project.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/247275

Estimated value €6.4m

kub · 01-07-2021 4:00pm

Has a civil contractor been appointed yet ?

annfield1978 · 03-07-2021 3:17pm

kub wrote: »

Has a civil contractor been appointed yet ?

Three years of enabling works (Archaeology/ Utiltiies/Fencing etc) then D&B procurment process

Treehelpplease · 03-07-2021 4:47pm

When do ye think the maryboro hill slip road will be closed?

kub · 04-07-2021 1:03pm

Treehelpplease wrote: »

When do ye think the maryboro hill slip road will be closed?

Surely not until that new Carrs Hill intersection is completed and in operation?

AugustusMinimus · 04-07-2021 4:13pm

Interesting to see if one end of the scheme will be prioritised for build.

I’d like to see the Douglas end prioritised from Bloomfield to where the Old Carrigaline road starts.

Chris_5339762 · 04-07-2021 8:09pm

I'd say it'll all be one scheme TBH. At a wild guess, the Bloomfield construction will be complex so would take the longest. Can they actually start this scheme before Dunkettle is finished though? Or is there a recommendation that both not be done at once?

AugustusMinimus · 04-07-2021 9:37pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I'd say it'll all be one scheme TBH. At a wild guess, the Bloomfield construction will be complex so would take the longest. Can they actually start this scheme before Dunkettle is finished though? Or is there a recommendation that both not be done at once?

Doubt it would start before Dunkettle ends purely due to timing.

blindsider · 10-08-2021 4:38pm

Dunkettle is due Q1 2024

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40321466.html

It'd be great if they could get ahead of target....

Chris_5339762 · 10-08-2021 8:57pm

It'd also be great if they used a correct image! Thats the Macroom bypass.

Actually its funny, thats a picture of the Macroom bypass, about the Dunkettle project, in the Ringaskiddy thread!!!!

Pos087 · 18-09-2021 10:47pm

Nice to see some work being undertaken. The road looks staked out and all safety around electrical wires and pylons are in place down in Ringaskiddy.

Hibernicis · 23-09-2021 11:54am

from Peter Horgan’s Facebook

A number of residents have contacted me seeking update on works for the M28. I’ve received the below update from the Liason Officer

Advance works in the form of site fencing and clearance have commenced in the Ringaskiddy area and we will be working our way towards Carrs hill in the coming months. Ground investigation, utility diversions and a full archaeology contract will then be undertaken in advance of the appointment of the main construction contractor. Going forward information will be available on the M28 Project on our website www.corkrdo.ie where you can go to Major Schemes and scroll down to the M28 Project. With particular reference to the Maryborough Hill and Lissadell area it should be noted that we will be demolishing Radaville House, which is located just at the slip road to the M28, starting on the 29th of September. The main demolition works will be undertaken on Saturday morning the 02nd of October, however it is expected that there will be minimum disruption to traffic in the area.

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FPeterHorganLabour%2Fposts%2F4598205460200674&show_text=true

kub · 02-10-2021 4:17pm

And as was said in the last post, Radaville House became a rubble pile this morning.

spacetweek · 04-10-2021 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117967806#Comment_117967806

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8667193,-8.4158117,3a,60y,246.45h,91.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbChb3sSPAnog7XN5ZNdAPA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

marno21 · 04-10-2021 6:29pm

Latest:

The scheme planning approval was the subject of a judicial review. The Supreme Court refused leave to appeal and Cork County Council have issued the Notices to Treat on affected land owners and commenced the 3-year advance works. Notices of Entry were issued on 22 July, 2021 to most landowners. It is anticipated that the Main Works tender Prior Information Notice (PIN) will be published in the next twelve months. It is anticipated that the Main Works will commence late 2024.

Reuben1210 · 05-10-2021 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117976015#Comment_117976015

Why such a long lead time post PP, or that is bang on normal in Ireland?

Cookiemunster · 05-10-2021 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978884#Comment_117978884

Most schemes don't need three years of advance works, which themselves couldn't begin until all the legal issues were resolved. I'm sure the main works contract will start immediately after the advance works are finished.

marno21 · 05-10-2021 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117978884#Comment_117978884

The advance works are more complex for this project with fairly intensive service diversions required (given the industry near the Ringaskiddy end). There’s also quite a bit of preparation work required around the Rochestown Road area.

Pete_Cavan · 05-10-2021 1:37pm

I know a house has been demolished but have the complex utility diversions started yet?

Chris_5339762 · 05-10-2021 9:30pm

Archaeology still needs to be done as well, that'll likely come before big diversions.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_docs.asp?PID=192151&LID=218333&AllowPrint=1

marno21 · 14-10-2021 9:57pm

Major site clearance underway around Shannonpark and site access established as well on the Board of Works Road (the no right turns onto N28 road) between the N28 and Donnybrook Hill atm

M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

Comments