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Evidence that loyalist paramilitaries were being controlled by mi5

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    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭✭✭ Ffff221


    The Stevens inquiry an official British government inquiry set up after pressure from Europe about collusion, during his investigations, Stevens and his team arrested 210 paramilitary suspects, of whom, he said, 207 were MI5 agents.

    During his investigation his offices and all his files burnt down in a mysterious fire, he was told by a senior RUC officer that the FRU had most likely done this (the main agency running agents in Northern Ireland) which despite being sent to investigate collusion he never even heard about the main agency responsible for it.

    In relation to the Dublin Monaghan bombings At the time of the bombings, Colin Wallace was a
    top British Intelligence Corps officer and a psychological warfare specialist at the British Army's Northern Ireland headquarters. Since his resignation in 1975, he has exposed scandals involving the security forces, including state collusion with loyalists and most famous of all he exposed the kincora boys scandal years before anyone else even mentioned it, He gave evidence to the Barron Inquiry

    In an August 1975 letter to Tony Stoughton, chief of the British Army Information Service in Northern Ireland, Wallace writes:

    There is good evidence the Dublin bombings in May last year were a reprisal for the Irish government's role in bringing about the [power sharing] Executive. According to one of Craig's people [Craig Smellie, the top MI6 officer in Northern Ireland], most of those involved – the Youngs, the Jacksons, Mulholland, Hanna, Kerr and McConnell – were working closely with [Special Branch] and [Military Intelligence] at that time. Craig's people believe the sectarian assassinations were designed to destroy Rees's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire, and the targets were identified for both sides by [Intelligence/Special Branch]. They also believe some very senior RUC officers were involved with this group. In short, it would appear that loyalist paramilitaries and [Intelligence/Special Branch] have formed some sort of pseudo gangs in an attempt to fight a war of attrition against the IRA by getting paramilitaries on both sides to kill each other and at the same time prevent any future political initiative.

    In a further letter of September 1975, Wallace wrote that MI5 was backing a group of UVF hardliners who opposed the UVF's move toward politics. He added:

    I believe most of the sectarian violence generated during the later part of the year was caused by some of the new [Intelligence] people deliberately stirring up the conflict. As you know, we have never been allowed to target the breakaway UVF, nor the UFF, during the past year. Yet they have killed more people than the IRA!
    ;
    Mod Note: Please provide links to assist other posters to discuss.


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Comments

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    Mi5 also had about 50 spies in the Ira
    There's about 20 now still in it

    Former police officer infiltrated New IRA’s high command over last eight years, it has emerged
    Dennis McFadden infiltrated the New IRA’s high command over the last eight years, providing safe houses in Northern Ireland and Scotland that were in fact bugged by the Security Service while handing out free tickets for Celtic matches and drinks from the bar in his home.He played a central role in MI5’s Operation Arbacia, which culminated at the end of this summer with the arrest of nine suspected leading New IRA members, all of whom have been charged with directing acts of terrorism.The nine suspected New IRA figures charged with directing terrorism are Kevin Barry Murphy,50, Davy Jordan, 49, Damien McLaughlin, 44, Gary Hayden, 48, Joe Barr, 44, Shea Reynolds , 26, Paddy McDaid, 50, Sharon Jordan, 45, and Mandy Duffy, 49.10th suspect, Issam Bassalat, 62, a Palestinian doctor based in Scotland, has also been arrested and stands accused of preparation of terrorist acts. He was arrested at Heathrow airport in August. Bassalat claims he only made contact with republicans in Northern Ireland because he thought he was going over to speak at a Palestinian solidarity meeting in County Tyrone.McFadden had been an MI5 agent for more than two decades, initially infiltrating Sinn Féin and then, on orders from his handlers, making contact with violent republican dissidents shortly after the New IRA was founded in 2012As well as the arrests and the eventual presence of McFadden in the witness box to give evidence, his main achievement has been to sow paranoia and distrust within what is left of the New IRA,” the senior security source said. “The dissidents in Derry no longer trust the ones in Belfast and Tyrone who brought McFadden into their organisation. There are accusations of other informers in their ranks now. In terms of terrorist operations thwarted, captured weapons and good hard intelligence on this organisation, McFadden has dealt their morale a massive blow.”


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    U2erthy wrote: »
    Mi5 also had about 50 spies in the Ira
    There's about 20 now still in it

    Former police officer infiltrated New IRA’s high command over last eight years, it has emerged
    Dennis McFadden infiltrated the New IRA’s high command over the last eight years, providing safe houses in Northern Ireland and Scotland that were in fact bugged by the Security Service while handing out free tickets for Celtic matches and drinks from the bar in his home.He played a central role in MI5’s Operation Arbacia, which culminated at the end of this summer with the arrest of nine suspected leading New IRA members, all of whom have been charged with directing acts of terrorism.The nine suspected New IRA figures charged with directing terrorism are Kevin Barry Murphy,50, Davy Jordan, 49, Damien McLaughlin, 44, Gary Hayden, 48, Joe Barr, 44, Shea Reynolds , 26, Paddy McDaid, 50, Sharon Jordan, 45, and Mandy Duffy, 49.10th suspect, Issam Bassalat, 62, a Palestinian doctor based in Scotland, has also been arrested and stands accused of preparation of terrorist acts. He was arrested at Heathrow airport in August. Bassalat claims he only made contact with republicans in Northern Ireland because he thought he was going over to speak at a Palestinian solidarity meeting in County Tyrone.McFadden had been an MI5 agent for more than two decades, initially infiltrating Sinn Féin and then, on orders from his handlers, making contact with violent republican dissidents shortly after the New IRA was founded in 2012As well as the arrests and the eventual presence of McFadden in the witness box to give evidence, his main achievement has been to sow paranoia and distrust within what is left of the New IRA,” the senior security source said. “The dissidents in Derry no longer trust the ones in Belfast and Tyrone who brought McFadden into their organisation. There are accusations of other informers in their ranks now. In terms of terrorist operations thwarted, captured weapons and good hard intelligence on this organisation, McFadden has dealt their morale a massive blow.”


    You could try using paragraphs if you want anybody to read all that - and a few links!


  • #2


    Ffff221 wrote: »
    The Stevens inquiry an official British government inquiry set up after pressure from Europe about collusion, during his investigations, Stevens and his team arrested 210 paramilitary suspects, of whom, he said, 207 were MI5 agents.

    During his investigation his offices and all his files burnt down in a mysterious fire, he was told by a senior RUC officer that the FRU had most likely done this (the main agency running agents in Northern Ireland) which despite being sent to investigate collusion he never even heard about the main agency responsible for it.

    In relation to the Dublin Monaghan bombings At the time of the bombings, Colin Wallace was a
    top British Intelligence Corps officer and a psychological warfare specialist at the British Army's Northern Ireland headquarters. Since his resignation in 1975, he has exposed scandals involving the security forces, including state collusion with loyalists and most famous of all he exposed the kincora boys scandal years before anyone else even mentioned it, He gave evidence to the Barron Inquiry

    In an August 1975 letter to Tony Stoughton, chief of the British Army Information Service in Northern Ireland, Wallace writes:

    There is good evidence the Dublin bombings in May last year were a reprisal for the Irish government's role in bringing about the [power sharing] Executive. According to one of Craig's people [Craig Smellie, the top MI6 officer in Northern Ireland], most of those involved – the Youngs, the Jacksons, Mulholland, Hanna, Kerr and McConnell – were working closely with [Special Branch] and [Military Intelligence] at that time. Craig's people believe the sectarian assassinations were designed to destroy Rees's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire, and the targets were identified for both sides by [Intelligence/Special Branch]. They also believe some very senior RUC officers were involved with this group. In short, it would appear that loyalist paramilitaries and [Intelligence/Special Branch] have formed some sort of pseudo gangs in an attempt to fight a war of attrition against the IRA by getting paramilitaries on both sides to kill each other and at the same time prevent any future political initiative.

    In a further letter of September 1975, Wallace wrote that MI5 was backing a group of UVF hardliners who opposed the UVF's move toward politics. He added:

    I believe most of the sectarian violence generated during the later part of the year was caused by some of the new [Intelligence] people deliberately stirring up the conflict. As you know, we have never been allowed to target the breakaway UVF, nor the UFF, during the past year. Yet they have killed more people than the IRA!

    This here is the weirdest thing about M15 in Ireland I seen in the previous 15 years https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SxszWn367pY

    The informer was revealed for something else but there is a family who say their son (Brendan McFadden) is innocent and was wrongly convicted in a non jury trial for shooting a police officer in 2009.

    The family started a justice watch and the MI5 agent was the one running the whole campaign appealing the conviction controlling all social media even refusing to give them the passwords.

    The family didn't know he was anything to do with the IRA they're quoted saying in the video how nice they thought he was to volunteer and come all the way from Scotland to run our campaign and provide all these resources little did we know this was the hand of MI5.


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    Anyway that's mediocre compared to what was going on during the troubles it's just weird to think about.


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    Why are you quoting yourself in your replies?


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    Dav010 wrote: »
    Why are you quoting yourself in your replies?

    I made a mistake I meant to reply to the one underneath.


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    Anyone who has read into the troubles knows that at least a sizeable portion of loyalist killings were proxy killings by the intelligence services.


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    MOD Note:
    @ Ffff221.
    Having two accounts post on the same thread violates the spirit of the History forum charter. Hence, please do not post on this thread again.


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    I am a Republican but this is really old news.

    Brit Int was using Republicans as early as 1972 in the MRF with Cahill & Wright.
    Or the Psy-ops with McGrogan & Heatherington, who were not militants but were hoods who under went training in explosives, and in anti-interrogation techniques in Susex, an they were sent back North into the prisons to spread dis-information, like when they pretend to break under Darkys interrogation & they started naming names who were of people also involved,but then later he went to the IRA leadership in prison & told them they had given names of people not involved informing to help spread paranoia & confusion in the jails.

    Which was not exactly running the IRA but was a good way of manipulating them.


  • #2


    I am a Republican but this is really old news.

    Brit Int was using Republicans as early as 1972 in the MRF with Cahill & Wright.
    Or the Psy-ops with McGrogan & Heatherington, who were not militants but were hoods who under went training in explosives, and in anti-interrogation techniques in Susex, an they were sent back North into the prisons to spread dis-information, like when they pretend to break under Darkys interrogation & they started naming names who were of people also involved,but then later he went to the IRA leadership in prison & told them they had given names of people not involved informing to help spread paranoia & confusion in the jails.

    Which was not exactly running the IRA but was a good way of manipulating them.

    What's the source for those Balcombe? The Dirty War?


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    What's the source for those Balcombe? The Dirty War?

    Boston College tapes. It's in ED Moloney's "Voices from the Grave Book" on Hughes which I have in font of me. It nwas a couple of weeks after the first H-Block went up. Hughes said it was a way of softening the pows up before the new Maze system. McGrogan told Hughes that his mission was to poison top Republicans in prison, and this was just after Lenny Murphy poisoned his cell mate.

    As a Republican just thinking about it gives me chills more than the MRF, E4A, SAS or the Glenanne Gang.

    Just to clarify I'm not a dissident Republican I just believe in some of the core Republican values (some) & defend the wars (1969 - 98) , (1919 -23) & (36 - 39)



    in general.


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    Terry136 wrote: »
    Anyone who has read into the troubles knows that at least a sizeable portion of loyalist killings were proxy killings by the intelligence services.
    "At least a sizeable" That many?


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    Boston College tapes. It's in ED Moloney's "Voices from the Grave Book" on Hughes which I have in font of me. It nwas a couple of weeks after the first H-Block went up. Hughes said it was a way of softening the pows up before the new Maze system. McGrogan told Hughes that his mission was to poison top Republicans in prison, and this was just after Lenny Murphy poisoned his cell mate.

    As a Republican just thinking about it gives me chills more than the MRF, E4A, SAS or the Glenanne Gang.

    Just to clarify I'm not a dissident Republican I just believe in some of the core Republican values (some) & defend the wars (1969 - 98) , (1919 -23) & (36 - 39)



    in general.


    Does the 1956/62 Border Campaign not rate inclusion in your list of "wars"?


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Does the 1956/62 Border Campaign not rate inclusion in your list of "wars"?

    No, just like I couldn't defend 42-44 or 39, it's not my list either, it's histories wars, unless your implying the ones I mentioned never took place.


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    No, just like I couldn't defend 42-44 or 39, it's not my list either, it's histories wars, unless your implying the ones I mentioned never took place.


    Well, the 'wars' you quote are not what I would regard as wars but then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Well,........ then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.
    Neither are most of the self-styled Republicans in Ireland. Too many of them have hijacked the term, just as they hijacked the language.


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Well, the 'wars' you quote are not what I would regard as wars but then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.

    Well that's fine, it's not as if you or me regarding them as wars or not is going to be a Earth shattering decision for anyone

    But they are regarded by most people who lived through it like my mother & grandparents, British Army Generals, British Army Commanders, Sergeants, Majors etc..,British politicians, Loyalist leaders & brigadiers , IRA Commanders & Chief of Staffs, along with journalists who reported on it Peter Taylor, Mark Urban, Henry McDonald, Ed Moloney, Joe Tiernan etc... .

    I mean the US at the time didn't regard (at least in public) Korea or Vietnam as wars. The US & British referred to Iraq, Libya & Afghanistan as "interventions"


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    Mick Tator wrote: »
    Neither are most of the self-styled Republicans in Ireland. Too many of them have hijacked the term, just as they hijacked the language.

    I would strongly agree with that, I'm not sure about most but certainly a large portion of self-styled Republicans would not have a clue about the origins of Irish Republicanism, never mind Republicanism in different states (ie Roman or French Republicanism) or different types of Republics, (soviet, people's, constitutional, Islamic etc).


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Well, the 'wars' you quote are not what I would regard as wars but then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.

    Jesus Del it's far from republican thinking. I lived in Portsmouth and Southampton for a while. I knew a lot of ex service men who served in NI. Every one of them referred to it as a war. I think it's much more of a political statement not calling them a war than to call them a war.


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    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus Del it's far from republican thinking. I lived in Portsmouth and Southampton for a while. I knew a lot of ex service men who served in NI. Every one of them referred to it as a war. I think it's much more of a political statement not calling them a war than to call them a war.

    As regards the Border campaign in the 50s can you really call blowing up phone boxes and customs posts a war?


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    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Jesus Del it's far from republican thinking. I lived in Portsmouth and Southampton for a while. I knew a lot of ex service men who served in NI. Every one of them referred to it as a war. I think it's much more of a political statement not calling them a war than to call them a war.

    I agree.

    Same thing with the War of Independence/Anglo-Irish War. Britain refused to accept that they were fighting a Irish guerrilla army backed by a elected Irish assembly.

    A year later some of those who were being denied belligerent status by the British during the Tan War did the same thing to the guerrillas they were fighting in the Civil War & used all the powers of the state apparatus to carry out the most vicious terror campaign in Ireland during the 20th century.

    Same is true of other state forces vs non-state combatants during the 20th century, most evident in the resistance campaigns against the Axis powers in WW2.


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    From where I'm coming from I view everything from 1916 onwards, and further back if you wish, as insurgencies rather than wars.


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    From where I'm coming from I view everything from 1916 onwards, and further back if you wish, as insurgencies rather than wars.

    No offence meant here but based on your previous posts I would say your opinion isn't really based on the facts but rather based on a political leaning. Therefore, I don't think arguing with you on this issue would be productive or something to take seriously.


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    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No offence meant here but based on your previous posts I would say your opinion isn't really based on the facts but rather based on a political leaning. Therefore, I don't think arguing with you on this issue would be productive or something to take seriously.


    According to Wiki and other sources, an insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants).

    Anyway, having lived through the recent "troubles" as an interested observer from their onset in 1969/70 I think that I'm well placed to say whether it was a war or an insurgency. Anyway, as you say, there's little point in arguing about it. :)


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    According to Wiki and other sources, an insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants).

    Anyway, having lived through the recent "troubles" as an interested observer from their onset in 1969/70 I think that I'm well placed to say whether it was a war or an insurgency.

    Well again based on your previous posts I don't think you're well placed. As I say no offence meant but I think you're likely too entrenched to be objective.

    I have had many members of my family involved in the troubles. Those who organised the first civil rights marches and acted in negotiations for example.

    I struggle to see how the troubles was anything but a civil war. What would the UVF, UDA be rebelling against exactly.

    Also according to wiki and many other sources the IRA were belligerents.


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    Del.Monte wrote: »
    From where I'm coming from I view everything from 1916 onwards, and further back if you wish, as insurgencies rather than wars.

    That's your prerogative to do so.

    What would you say is the difference between a guerrilla war & a guerrilla insurgency?

    If WW1 never took place & Carsons UVF carried out the violent threats they made to resist basically devo-max what would that have been?


  • #2


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    According to Wiki and other sources, an insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants).

    Anyway, having lived through the recent "troubles" as an interested observer from their onset in 1969/70 I think that I'm well placed to say whether it was a war or an insurgency. Anyway, as you say, there's little point in arguing about it. :)

    My mother viewed them from the onset as well, she lived in Strabane from 1967 - 1981, the first person she seen get shot & klled was a deaf mute called Eammon McDevit who was shot in the back because he couldn't hear the soldier shouting.

    It's a pretty famous case
    18 August 1971: Eamon McDevitt (28), a deaf mute Catholic civilian, shot during street disturbances by the British Army, Fountain Street. This incident was one of a number to feature in a European Court of Human Rights inter-state case
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles_in_Strabane#1971

    I also remember reading Strabane was the most bombed town in Europe in the 1970's.

    What county did you observe the so called "Troubles" from, Armagh, Tyrone, Down etc...?


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    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well again based on your previous posts I don't think you're well placed. As I say no offence meant but I think you're likely too entrenched to be objective.

    I have had many members of my family involved in the troubles. Those who organised the first civil rights marches and acted in negotiations for example.

    I struggle to see how the troubles was anything but a civil war. What would the UVF, UDA be rebelling against exactly.

    Also according to wiki and many other sources the IRA were belligerents.

    I wouldn't call the Troubles a "civil war".
    A Civil War implies that the sides involved are of equal strength. Like the Russian Civil War, which like the Troubles was also a 3-way conflict between The Bolsheviks (authoritarian socialists) , the Whites & the various Left-Wing Libertarian Socialist groups.

    Remember the UVF, UDA, Orange Volunteers, Down Orange Welfare & Vanguard rebelled against the Suninngdale agreement in 1974 & it's height bombed Dublin & Monaghan killing 34 civilians & injured 300 others, and just 2 weeks before the Dublin bombs the UVF bombed a Nationalist pub in Belfast killing 6 civilians & injuring 30.
    In total 49 Catholics were killed in the month of May 1974, making it the most deadly month of the conflict for civilians.


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