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Ireland's Birds doing worse than ever before

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    More importance is placed on the countryside serving as a playground for humans than a habitat for wildlife.

    Very well put. I see systematic destruction of hedgerows along the greenways in West mayo, absolutely unnecessary in my opinion. Its as if the council are terrified of a lawsuit where some child has her leg scratched by a briar.
    Also, check out the disaster zones between Newport, Westport, Castlebar, Breaffy and Turlough where this 'desperately needed' new road is being hacked into the landscape. Has to be seen to be believed how much damage is being done.


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    #33
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The worst thing is it barely makes the news. Realistically in 10 years time when we've destroyed even more of the tiny fragments of nature left on the island there'll be even fewer birds
    We should be CPOing land and allowing wildlife corridors throughout the country to form and just left to do their own thing.
    Instead all we do is try and milk money ever more intensively from every patch of land.

    It’s worse than that. A lot of the habitat destruction is costing money with no profit or benefit to anyone.


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    #34
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Slurry, another massive poisoning of our ground that never gets highlighted.


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    #35
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭blackbox


    malinheader wrote: »
    Slurry, another massive poisoning of our ground that never gets highlighted.

    That too broad of a statement. It is the mis-use of slurry that is the problem.

    There is no point in alienating farmers who are doing it properly. It is better to encourage them.

    .


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    #36
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,076 ✭✭✭malinheader


    blackbox wrote: »
    That too broad of a statement. It is the mis-use of slurry that is the problem.

    There is no point in alienating farmers who are doing it properly. It is better to encourage them.

    .

    So done correctly it doesn't kill the worms and grubs that wild birds feed on.


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It is a little heartening at least to see quite a few posters expressing anger at the endless destruction of nature; I often wonder is it only me that gets so upset. It's hard to travel to any place in the country without seeing some destruction that is barely believable, and oftentimes totally unnecessary.

    A poster mentioned OPW; while they don't have management over vast areas, through their arterial drainage vandalism they cause massively disproportionate damage.

    But it's everyone really, councils spending budgets before they run out on make-works, chancers topping trees (should be a capital crime), greenways scoured of all life. I'm not optimistic; some international embarrassment might help.


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    #38
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Very well put. I see systematic destruction of hedgerows along the greenways in West mayo, absolutely unnecessary in my opinion. Its as if the council are terrified of a lawsuit where some child has her leg scratched by a briar.
    Also, check out the disaster zones between Newport, Westport, Castlebar, Breaffy and Turlough where this 'desperately needed' new road is being hacked into the landscape. Has to be seen to be believed how much damage is being done.

    So many awful things proposed, saw one for a new golf course, as if we needed more of those.. the hellfire club, another unneeded monstrosity at keem bay...a ski-lift type thing up crogh patrick for godsakes. It's as if everything needs has to be commodified with a Tayto Park style 'visitor/interpretive centre' and gift shop.

    I totally understand people wanting to travel out and see these places esp around this time but ffs have a light touch, low impact development instead.
    Rather than a mini motorway tarmac 'green' way, a minimum interference trail leaving as many trees etc in place, or just preserve and prohibit the bulldozing of old railway embankments and cuttings, like national monuments are, and allow wildlife to do its thing in peace.


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    #39
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,929 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    So many awful things proposed, saw one for a new golf course, as if we needed more of those.. the hellfire club, another unneeded monstrosity at keem bay...a ski-lift type thing up crogh patrick for godsakes. It's as if everything needs has to be commodified with a Tayto Park style 'visitor/interpretive centre' and gift shop.

    I totally understand people wanting to travel out and see these places esp around this time but ffs have a light touch, low impact development instead.
    Rather than a mini motorway tarmac 'green' way, a minimum interference trail leaving as many trees etc in place, or just preserve and prohibit the bulldozing of old railway embankments and cuttings, like national monuments are, and allow wildlife to do its thing in peace.

    Yeah they really just want to make money out of everything. Bull Island near me is supposed to be a unesco biosphere area, but they are trying to build a new visitor centre there. I mean why not just leave it to the birds and try and reduce human activity there? It's the same in Fairview Park there are plans to put a new cafe and outdoor eating area there, as if there aren't enough shops and cafes in Fairview already.
    Some stuff just needs to be left alone.


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    #40
    Pie Man
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭Pie Man


    fiacha wrote: »
    Surprised to see Grey Wagtail on there. I see them regularily on the Royal Canal and Tolka river local to me. They are also present in my estate, often seen picking through the moss on roofs / gutters.

    Is their decline linked to decline in water quality and invertebrates ?

    As well as Stonechat a cold winter hits there numbers hard, a mild winter and a good breeding season (two broods, 4 to 6 chicks at a time) there numbers can build up again. So I say there numbers go up and down a lot.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    But Grey Wagtail have gone from amber to red listed. Last few winters haven't been noticeably bad. Generally the smaller the bird, the harder hit in cold winters. Goldcrests and Wrens numbers collapsed after 1962/3. Grey Wagtails are easy to spot, the flash of yellow, extraordinary tail, no surprise people spot them regularly, but these surveys are properly scientific. Along with flowering plants, birds are the best studied wildlife in Ireland. I think when the alarm is raised, we should pay heed.


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    #42
    slipperyox
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    Wonder how many bird species cats are responsible for extinction?


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    #43
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    I know it's a bit of a contentious topic but with growing numbers of cormorants coming inland , it's going to have a knock on effect on bird populations in some of our smaller waters ways, ie canals, small lakes and rivers. They showed up on my local canal 2 years ago and they've devoured most of the fish that were in it over 2 winters. You won't even see a heron up there now , where before there would be a couple of them and 6 grebes you'd regularly see aswell. You know the oceans are fxcked when you see 4 cormorants on the canal every morning over winter .


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    #44
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    slipperyox wrote: »
    Wonder how many bird species cats are responsible for extinction?

    They kill billions every year and are responsible for extinctions in australia and making a lot of mammals and lizards close to extinction aswell . There's an organization in Oz that builds these huge feral free areas and fences them all the way around so cats and foxes can't kill the endangered mammals , but according to cat lovers in Ireland they only take the old or sick ones that are dying . I'd say the pygmey shrew gets a slaughtered across the country by cats .


    Feral proof area in australia

    https://youtu.be/t_rxNLZ8i9I


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    #45
    slipperyox
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    I know of a lot of farmers that get "farm cats",
    semi feral cats to roam sheds and barns, but I'd imagine they'd rather go for finches and small birds than rats...


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    #46
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    kildare lad wrote: »
    I know it's a bit of a contentious topic but with growing numbers of cormorants coming inland , it's going to have a knock on effect on bird populations in some of our smaller waters ways, ie canals, small lakes and rivers. They showed up on my local canal 2 years ago and they've devoured most of the fish that were in it over 2 winters. You won't even see a heron up there now , where before there would be a couple of them and 6 grebes you'd regularly see aswell. You know the oceans are fxcked when you see 4 cormorants on the canal every morning over winter .

    Contentious only because it represents a complete misunderstanding of Cormorants, rivers and ecology in general!

    Cormorants have always been an inland bird. Water quality in many of our waterbodies is terrible. Our habitats, including wetlands, are in dire condition.

    I wish it was as simple as culling a few Cormorants to get fish populations back, but it just simply isn't!


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    #47
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    slipperyox wrote: »
    Wonder how many bird species cats are responsible for extinction?

    Irresponsible cat owners drive me mad, and cats undoubtedly kill tens of thousands of birds in Ireland each year, including the cats whose owners swear they wouldn't hurt a fly.

    All that being said, cats haven't put any species on the red or amber list in Ireland.


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    #48
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    Irresponsible cat owners drive me mad, and cats undoubtedly kill tens of thousands of birds in Ireland each year, including the cats whose owners swear they wouldn't hurt a fly.

    All that being said, cats haven't put any species on the red or amber list in Ireland.

    Cats don't have the capacity to burn mountain side and bogs or clear land for agriculture and development but are often the go to argument for wild bird numbers decreasing


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    #49
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    Contentious only because it represents a complete misunderstanding of Cormorants, rivers and ecology in general!

    Cormorants have always been an inland bird. Water quality in many of our waterbodies is terrible. Our habitats, including wetlands, are in dire condition.

    I wish it was as simple as culling a few Cormorants to get fish populations back, but it just simply isn't!

    While many of our waterways are in bad conditions , the canals near me aren't . There's far more cormorants coming inland in recent years to stretches of water that they've never been on before , and our waterways can't take that predation. Cormorants aren't the only animal that relies on fish in the canal , you've otters, herons , grebes , kingfishers , pike, perch and crayfish. Most of the spawning fish have been eaten in the last two years. And when all the other birds and otters breed , they're gonna struggle to feed their young as there's a major lack of fish in the canal .


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    #50
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    OpenYourEyes wrote: »
    Irresponsible cat owners drive me mad, and cats undoubtedly kill tens of thousands of birds in Ireland each year, including the cats whose owners swear they wouldn't hurt a fly.

    All that being said, cats haven't put any species on the red or amber list in Ireland.

    Seen a pic an hour ago on facebook of a woman "saving" a chiff chaff from her cat . And I'm thinking imagine flying all the way from africa , just to be killed by someone's pet . I don't understand people who let there cats outside being on wildlife pages ??


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    #51
    Chisler2
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Very well put. I see systematic destruction of hedgerows along the greenways in West mayo, absolutely unnecessary in my opinion. Its as if the council are terrified of a lawsuit where some child has her leg scratched by a briar.
    Also, check out the disaster zones between Newport, Westport, Castlebar, Breaffy and Turlough where this 'desperately needed' new road is being hacked into the landscape. Has to be seen to be believed how much damage is being done.

    That development is scary in scale and violence. This will be the fourth consecutive year of tearing up the countryside between Westport and Newport and "concreting Paradise". The whole shebang between Westport and Castlebar will make a 10-minute (at best!) reduction in commute-time. Unfortunately the local population accept without question. As long as there is no challenge to the wholesale destruction, it will continue as it is in the financial benefit of politicians and construction companies.


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    #52
    Pie Man
    Registered Users Posts: 348 ✭✭Pie Man


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But Grey Wagtail have gone from amber to red listed. Last few winters haven't been noticeably bad. Generally the smaller the bird, the harder hit in cold winters. Goldcrests and Wrens numbers collapsed after 1962/3. Grey Wagtails are easy to spot, the flash of yellow, extraordinary tail, no surprise people spot them regularly, but these surveys are properly scientific. Along with flowering plants, birds are the best studied wildlife in Ireland. I think when the alarm is raised, we should pay heed.

    I take part in survey work on Dippers, we monitor winter roosts and nests at breeding time (By Licence), by consequence we monitor grey wags as well as they both breed on fast flowing rivers.
    Grey wags roost alone sometimes on exposed branches, wrens roost in groups in old nests, holes in walls etc.
    In 2018 the bad weather in March hit Grey Wags hard locally. The number of breeding pairs were scarce, but they had a good breeding season. 2019 the breeding pairs were well up from year before.

    I'm no expert on the matter by any means and I cant comment on the status of grey wags nationally, but on average threw the years I've been doing this the numbers locally are stable.


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    #53
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,672 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    kildare lad wrote: »
    While many of our waterways are in bad conditions , the canals near me aren't . There's far more cormorants coming inland in recent years to stretches of water that they've never been on before , and our waterways can't take that predation. Cormorants aren't the only animal that relies on fish in the canal , you've otters, herons , grebes , kingfishers , pike, perch and crayfish. Most of the spawning fish have been eaten in the last two years. And when all the other birds and otters breed , they're gonna struggle to feed their young as there's a major lack of fish in the canal .

    I have certainly noticed a rise in Cormorants using inland waters - I suspect it might be a response to the ever increasing damage industrial fishing fleets are doing to the seas all around this island.


    PS: Young cormorants appear to be on the menu for Sea-Eagles on Lough Derg. Hopefully when these eagles become more established it can bring enhanced balance to the riparian food chain


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    #54
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,672 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    jackboy wrote: »
    Even the Green Party have turned their backs on the environment and habitats in favour of waffling about carbon taxes and cycle lanes. 90% of individuals who would have been interested in protecting the environment and habitats are now gone down that rabbit hole too. Protecting habitats and birds is not fashionable at the moment. Things are very bleak for the near future at least.

    I strongly agree with this - most of the ones I have encountered are pretty clueless on Natural Heritage issues. The growing scandal surrounding BNM's plans for bog restoration being a case in point as it now appears that despite being handed 100m euros by Eamon Ryans Department to "rehabilitate carbon rich peatland" , it appears most of these bogs will be for ever sterilized under giant industrial wind farms. At the start of the year the top peatland ecologists in the country like Trinity's Catherine Renue Wilson sounded the alarm on this and said the money should not have been handed over till plans and guarantees were in place. Ryan spent last week waffling to his pals in the Wind industry at their AGM, so it appears the huge potential of these bogs for wetland wildlife restoration, improving water quality, natural flood control etc. will never be realised despite all the government greenwash spin and PR:mad:


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    #55
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,672 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    embraer170 wrote: »
    I had a recent interaction with the NPWS following the destructions of 30+ mature trees during nesting in a town near me. I got an absolute joke of a response.

    NPWS is a seriously broken organisation - having interacted with them for the past 20 years the bulk of the problems appear to be at management and parent department level. We will see what comes out of the current review but IMO not much progress can made without some serious culling of deadwood right up to Sec Gen level


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    #56
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    slipperyox wrote: »
    I know of a lot of farmers that get "farm cats",
    semi feral cats to roam sheds and barns, but I'd imagine they'd rather go for finches and small birds than rats...

    Have three, they sort of arrived here rather than I setting out to get any. One of the three is the best, if you could call it that, at hunting but turns up with mice almost all of the time. I haven't seen a single rat since they arrived, maybe it is their presence and patrolling keeps them away.

    The odd house mouse gets in here but they don't last long once I see their calling cards and I've worked out where they habitually wander and put a few strategically placed traps down based on that.

    I know she would nab a bird if she could so I've opened the windows in the outhouse so she can't corner one if a bird makes a go for a window to escape.
    She has been neutered so she will not be in the family way.

    One annoyance with the F&F forum, a typical wildlife related query would begin with "I have a problem with X animal/bird, should I put out poison or get someone to shoot it?"


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    #57
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    I have certainly noticed a rise in Cormorants using inland waters - I suspect it might be a response to the ever increasing damage industrial fishing fleets are doing to the seas all around this island.


    PS: Young cormorants appear to be on the menu for Sea-Eagles on Lough Derg. Hopefully when these eagles become more established it can bring enhanced balance to the riparian food chain

    Sea fishing is gone to crap due to over fishing . Unfortunately I don't there's enough sea eagles to make a dent in cormorant numbers. I think we'll start seeing a serious decline on inland fish eating birds in the next few years on waters where's there's cormorant predation


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    #58
    OpenYourEyes
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Seen a pic an hour ago on facebook of a woman "saving" a chiff chaff from her cat . And I'm thinking imagine flying all the way from africa , just to be killed by someone's pet . I don't understand people who let there cats outside being on wildlife pages ??


    I saw someone recently asking to ID a dead bird. Apparently the bird must have attacked the cat first because the cat never hunts birds...


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    #59
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Has the increase in the buzzard population, had any impact on the numbers of other bird species.


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    #60
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,799 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Sea fishing is gone to crap due to over fishing .
    i finally got around to reading 'whittled away' and it's shocking but not surprising. how much is the irish sea fishery actually worth? as in, how much would it cost to simply pay the trawlermen to stay at home instead?


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    #61
    adocholiday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭adocholiday


    On a more positive note I live in South Wicklow and the Red Kite population is doing really well here, seeing them further and further from Avoca now. There is a nice population of them in the woods behind my house so they're always overhead, great to see. I also have a woodpecker in my garden although haven't been able to get a picture of it. They're popping up in places around here now. Buzzards and sparrow hawks are regular here too and I've seen a few peregrines.

    What's happening to our ecology is awful, but we have good people actively encouraging conservation and protecting our wildlife and I try to take the positives from that.


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