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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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Comments

  • #8042
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    jammiedodgers wrote: »
    Well you've been pretty spot on so far Paddy, no reason to doubt you now...

    Proof for future politicians that a non-story can become a story if you repeat the same message enough times.

    'Yo, you know the GP agreement of 2019?'
    'No.'
    'Remember. GP agreement? For local area care.'
    'I really dont. I might if I was a doctor'
    'Hold that thought. What if I told you that that agreement was given to a doctor.'
    'I would say that that was to be expected.'
    'What if I told you that doctor was a friend of the then Taoiseach?'
    'Well, what did the Taoiseach have to do with this?'
    'He was negotiating the agreement, but that isn't the important bit. This doctor was his friend, and the head of a doctor's union.'
    'A union. Like SIPTU or TUI.'
    'Bingo.'
    'It represents doctors.'
    'Ah yes, but not the doctors negotiating the deal.'
    'The friend was sent this information before the deal was struck?'
    'No, afterwards. I'm telling you now this is massive. The Taoiseach doesn't even care about refugees.'
    'Right. And it's a big deal because..?'
    'He sent it to his friend'
    'You are suggesting corruption?'
    'Oh no. Maybe. Look I don't really care. Doesn't it make you distrust the guy?'
    'To negotiate GP agreements?'
    'No, in general.'
    'I haven't trusted a Taoiseach since Haughey.'
    'Look you can't see the value here, but lookit, if you keep saying the phrase leo the leak, it will become a story. I guarantee it.'
    'Just like that?'
    'Just, as you say, like that.'


  • #8043
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    BKelly21 wrote: »
    Where are you getting that the Taoiseach is authorised to leak confidential information, and further, why are the gards conducting a criminal investigation on someone who was [as far as you are concerned] "authorised to leak confidential information" also why did the Tanaìste apologise for actions he did while serving as taoiseach if he was authorised to do so anyway? Just repeating and repeating and repeating stuff over and over again without ever [as far as I can see here] backing it up is very strange.
    A barrister has put their name to very clearly laid out reasons as to why Leo [in all likelihood] is in trouble. What are your credentials and qualifications to contradict him, and on what exactly are you basing your "knowledge or legal expertise" on might I ask?

    How many times does it have to be explained that he only apologised for the manner in which he shared the document, not for sharing it? That has been backed up time and again by reference to his actual words, yet posters like yourself keep pretending it was something else.

    Diarmuid Phelan has been wrong before, on issues like the Lisbon Treaty for example, so why should we believe he is right now?

    I have backed up my position with references to the relevant legislation.


  • #8044
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    McMurphy wrote: »
    If of course, by "wishy washy" you mean it goes into extensive detail of how Leo's spindoctors are in all probability talking through their hoops, you're bang on of course.

    I'm not going to copy and paste all of it, but this would be a good starting point.

    You're saying that neither the Taoiseach, who was negotiating the deal, nor the Health minister can approve the Taoiseach's unilateral use of that data, even though it has been established that a minister could.

    How does one grant permission? Does it have to be written down in advance and signed by both parties, or is it sufficient for Harris to today make a gesture with his hand and say 'yeah. Grand.'

    I mean you haven't done much arguing in relation to this, all you've said is that the Taoiseach has less authority than one of his ministers, which sounds a bit odd, but okay.


  • #8045
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What process is laid down? Do you have a link to it?

    Is authorised by the Taoiseach not enough?

    If Varadkar ate a doughnut it's wouldn't 'authorised by the Taoiseach' (when he was). Like when he opened his gob on the Debenham workers right? 'Member when you said that was him passing comment not his office?
    The whole issue is because he 'leaked' leaked a document. He didn't consult/authorise in any official manner. In fact he apologised for the 'manner'. He's not the Pope, he's not infallible.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    How many times does it have to be explained that he only apologised for the manner in which he shared the document, not for sharing it? That has been backed up time and again by reference to his actual words, yet posters like yourself keep pretending it was something else. .....

    What's the difference? We've yet to see his apologists explain that.


  • #8046
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    James Brown wrote: »
    If Varadkar ate a doughnut it's wouldn't 'authorised by the Taoiseach' (when he was). Like when he opened his gob on the Debenham workers right? 'Member when you said that was him passing comment not his office?
    The whole issue is because he 'leaked' leaked a document. He didn't consult/authorise in any official manner. In fact he apologised for the 'manner'. He's not the Pope, he's not infallible.

    What's the difference? We've yet to see his apologists explain that.


    Yeah, I have to agree. Whatever about all the other points, I don't get the one suggesting that he authorised the leak himself. It doesn't make much sense on any level.

    Where are the documents he filled out to 'release' the confidential files?
    Surely the then Tanaiste would have to co-sign, or the President etc.
    If it was just a case worldwide that the leader of a Country could authorise themselves to randomly send confidential documents we would have massive problems.

    That has to be the weakest argument yet.


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  • #8047
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    You're saying that neither the Taoiseach, who was negotiating the deal, nor the Health minister can approve the Taoiseach's unilateral use of that data, even though it has been established that a minister could.

    No I'm not saying it, I'm posting the barrister in the articles opinion on Leo's predicament, which they have went into great detail to explain how they're interpreting things.

    That would be like me posting a neurological consultants assesment of a patient's recent surgical procedure, and you claiming I (I'm not a neurological consultant) made an assesment of said procedure.
    How does one grant permission? Does it have to be written down in advance and signed by both parties, or is it sufficient for Harris to today make a gesture with his hand and say 'yeah. Grand.'

    I mean you haven't done much arguing in relation to this, all you've said is that the Taoiseach has less authority than one of his ministers, which sounds a bit odd, but okay.

    Would it be more or less odd than claiming someone said something they literally didn't say on this site, never mind this thread?

    Can you quote me saying the Taoiseach has less authority than one of his ministers?


  • #8048
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Suckit wrote: »
    That has to be the weakest argument yet.

    The more they begin to realise they have backed the wrong horse, the weaker their arguments are,


  • #8049
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Suckit wrote: »
    Yeah, I have to agree. Whatever about all the other points, I don't get the one suggesting that he authorised the leak himself. It doesn't make much sense on any level.

    Where are the documents he filled out to 'release' the confidential files?
    Surely the then Tanaiste would have to co-sign, or the President etc.
    If it was just a case worldwide that the leader of a Country could authorise themselves to randomly send confidential documents we would have massive problems.

    That has to be the weakest argument yet.

    Do you have any other example from the whole history of the State where the Tanaiste or the President had to co-sign a decision by the Taoiseach?


    One?


  • #8050
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    This latest RTE investigates will pile pressure onLV


  • #8051
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Do you have any other example from the whole history of the State where the Tanaiste or the President had to co-sign a decision by the Taoiseach?


    One?
    Do you have any other example where the Taoiseach just randomly leaked files marked confidential and didn't have to answer to anyone for it?

    Even one where the explanation afterwards was that they authorised it themselves, in their head.


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  • #8052
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    The more they begin to realise they have backed the wrong, the weaker their arguments are,

    "The barrister was wrong on something before" was a cracker. :D

    Also, there's a well peddled mistruth in here that "Leo only apologised for the manner in which he shared the document, not that he shared it" - absolute tripe and easily shown up as so.
    Deputy Leo Varadkar wrote:
    I was wrong in the way I went about it. I should have done it differently. I should have brought Dr. Ó Tuathail in and given a full briefing, even if it was line by line or page by page. That is the way it should have been done. I did not do it that way because I knew him and, almost as a shortcut, I did it in the way I did it. I should not have done it that way. I should have set aside an hour or two to do it in a more formal and proper way.

    If Leo had of invited Zero Craic in, to go through the document line by line in a more formal and proper way, well that would have meant he would have officially liased with OTuathail, and went through the document in an official capacity. I.E not leaked it to him.

    Unless of course Leo meant he should have leaked it in a more formal and official way, but that's an oxymoron, right?

    Mental gymnastics here is only phenomenal!


  • #8053
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Suckit wrote: »
    Do you have any other example where the Taoiseach just randomly leaked files marked confidential and didn't have to answer to anyone for it?

    Even one where the explanation afterwards was that they authorised it themselves, in their head.

    Well, yes, I gave examples earlier in the thread.


  • #8054
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Well, yes, I gave examples earlier in the thread.
    Which Taoiseach/Taoiseachs did this?


  • #8055
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    Which Taoiseach/Taoiseachs did this?
    I had typed an almost identical post.


  • #8056
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    This latest RTE investigates will pile pressure onLV

    Speaking of which.

    https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1375095401213222915?s=09


    IMG-20210325-224954.jpg


  • #8057
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Speaking of which.

    https://twitter.com/nwl88444048/status/1375095401213222915?s=09


    IMG-20210325-224954.jpg

    FF/FG/Greens: a rotten, one rule for them, crony bunch of chancers propping each other up. Shameful.


  • #8058
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Suckit wrote: »
    I had typed an almost identical post.
    Hmmm still no answer. Surely, he would be able to answer this fairly quickly?


  • #8059
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    Proof for future politicians that a non-story can become a story if you repeat the same message enough times.

    'Yo, you know the GP agreement of 2019?'
    'No.'
    'Remember. GP agreement? For local area care.'
    'I really dont. I might if I was a doctor'
    'Hold that thought. What if I told you that that agreement was given to a doctor.'
    'I would say that that was to be expected.'
    'What if I told you that doctor was a friend of the then Taoiseach?'
    'Well, what did the Taoiseach have to do with this?'
    'He was negotiating the agreement, but that isn't the important bit. This doctor was his friend, and the head of a doctor's union.'
    'A union. Like SIPTU or TUI.'
    'Bingo.'
    'It represents doctors.'
    'Ah yes, but not the doctors negotiating the deal.'
    'The friend was sent this information before the deal was struck?'
    'No, afterwards. I'm telling you now this is massive. The Taoiseach doesn't even care about refugees.'
    'Right. And it's a big deal because..?'
    'He sent it to his friend'
    'You are suggesting corruption?'
    'Oh no. Maybe. Look I don't really care. Doesn't it make you distrust the guy?'
    'To negotiate GP agreements?'
    'No, in general.'
    'I haven't trusted a Taoiseach since Haughey.'
    'Look you can't see the value here, but lookit, if you keep saying the phrase leo the leak, it will become a story. I guarantee it.'
    'Just like that?'
    'Just, as you say, like that.'

    Hilarious you went to all that trouble, when you could just say you are a card carrying fg member.


  • #8060
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    Which Taoiseach/Taoiseachs did this?

    Check back in the thread where I give examples of similar situations happening with regard to industrial relations negotiations. It is there, you must have missed it.


  • #8061
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    Hmmm still no answer. Surely, he would be able to answer this fairly quickly?

    Unfortunately, I am not on a 24/7 retainer from a political party, so I am not able to be on here to answer questions.


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  • #8062
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    McMurphy wrote: »
    No I'm not saying it, I'm posting the barrister in the articles opinion on Leo's predicament, which they have went into great detail to explain how they're interpreting things.

    That would be like me posting a neurological consultants assesment of a patient's recent surgical procedure, and you claiming I (I'm not a neurological consultant) made an assesment of said procedure.



    Would it be more or less odd than claiming someone said something they literally didn't say on this site, never mind this thread?

    Can you quote me saying the Taoiseach has less authority than one of his ministers?

    I'm just going to point out that this is a nonsense post.

    You point out an expert's opinion who made no comment on Harris' position one way or the other. This is pretty important but entirely glossed over by you.

    You also say that the Taoiseach has less authority than one of his ministers, double down on that, and then say that you never said it, so.. fine I guess. You're deferring to the expert on this one, which is fine (even if the position is inconsistent), but it is nevertheless an odd position. Just pointing it out.


  • #8063
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    Hilarious you went to all that trouble, when you could just say you are a card carrying fg member.

    No, no no, that's not how you do it.

    You say.. repeat after me.. 'leo the leak'. It's alliterative. Amazing stuff. It's also monosyllabic so I think you're up to it.

    Now I see you are uninterested in discussing anything here,, so I assume you just want to add your voice. Trust me, saying 'leo the leak' would be more cutting than accusing me of being a member of the euro-sycophantic nanny-state self-satisfied Fine Gael party. I personally despise Sinn Fein, so that's where your error may lie. But not everybody who doesn't vote SF votes Fine Gael, because if they did, Fine Gael would be on 70% in the polls.

    <mod: Wind it in with the childish narrative>


  • #8064
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    No, no no, that's not how you do it.

    You say.. repeat after me.. 'leo the leak'. It's alliterative. Amazing stuff. It's also monosyllabic so I think you're up to it.

    Now I see you are uninterested in discussing anything here,, so I assume you just want to add your voice. Trust me, saying 'leo the leak' would be more cutting than accusing me of being a member of the euro-sycophantic nanny-state self-satisfied Fine Gael party. I personally despise Sinn Fein, so that's where your error may lie. But not everybody who doesn't vote SF votes Fine Gael, because if they did, Fine Gael would be on 70% in the polls.

    I have that in common with you, as do around 60% of voters.


  • #8065
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Speaking of which.

    What, are you going to try arguing 'for the public good'. Didn't we establish that that doesn't matter? Or maybe the argument is that there was no exchange of money or service for the information by RTE? Again, we kind of came to the conclusion that that didn't matter. I'm not really sure what position is being taken here, but I'm going to guess that if a politician, regardless of affiliation, is voicing an opinion on this matter that they are going to be a hypocrite at some level.


  • #8066
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Check back in the thread where I give examples of similar situations happening with regard to industrial relations negotiations. It is there, you must have missed it.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I am not on a 24/7 retainer from a political party, so I am not able to be on here to answer questions.
    The thread is over 8,100 posts.
    Nobody is asking you to link to it, as it might be tough to find. Just the name of one of the Taoiseachs that have done the same, or even the name of the one that you have named and we can search for ourselves.


  • #8067
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Suckit wrote: »
    The thread is over 8,100 posts.
    Nobody is asking you to link to it, as it might be tough to find. Just the name of one of the Taoiseachs that have done the same, or even the name of the one that you have named and we can search for ourselves.

    It is there, find it.


  • #8068
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It is there, find it.
    Like the other posts you fled from, it's unlikely I will waste my time searching through your post history.

    Most people would highlight any proof that they had of something, and highlight it again and again if asked, if it was to back up their point.
    I can only think of one legit reason why a person/people wouldn't.


  • #8069
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I am not on a 24/7 retainer from a political party, so I am not able to be on here to answer questions.

    You've time to dodge the same question twice though. Sorry, three times....


  • #8070
    skimpydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Check back in the thread where I give examples of similar situations happening with regard to industrial relations negotiations. It is there, you must have missed it.

    All I am looking for is a name nothing more and nothing less. Once I have a name I can go research this Taoiseach and what he might have done. I have tried looking through the 8000 plus posts and could not find anything.


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  • #8071
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    What, are you going to try arguing 'for the public good'. Didn't we establish that that doesn't matter? Or maybe the argument is that there was no exchange of money or service for the information by RTE? Again, we kind of came to the conclusion that that didn't matter. I'm not really sure what position is being taken here, but I'm going to guess that if a politician, regardless of affiliation, is voicing an opinion on this matter that they are going to be a hypocrite at some level.

    Maybe Leo will speak up for the fella, didn't he say whistleblowers are distinguished?

    You're not trying to equate whistleblowers blowing the whistle on wrongdoings within a state dept (protected by protective disclosure legislation) ≠ that of passing confidential information for the main reason that your pal requested you to pass him it are you :confused:

    IMG-20210325-224954.jpg

    And we have the name of the assistant Leo got to obtain said documents, will the dept of health and the dept of Taoiseach be advocating prosecution as per the statement made above to RTE?

    Curious your thoughts on this random.


This discussion has been closed.
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