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Are ceiling joists supposed to have noggins ?

  • 19-03-2021 03:46PM
    #1
    balcoder101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭


    Hi All

    Just wondering if someone can give me a bit of advice. I have a bungalow which was built in 2003 and was built with the attic meant to be converted later on so the roof is cut for conversion. The attic is still not converted. The attic has osb boards nailed to the joists as flooring but there are no noggins in between the joists. The problem is I keep getting small cracks in the ceilings which when filled come back again in winter and Summers so I'm blue in the face from repairing them. Are these cracks likely to be caused by the lack of noggins and if so what is the recommended distance between noggins on a joist run.

    Thank for your help
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,519 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    balcoder101 wrote: »
    Hi All

    Just wondering if someone can give me a bit of advice. I have a bungalow which was built in 2003 and was built with the attic meant to be converted later on so the roof is cut for conversion. The attic is still not converted. The attic has osb boards nailed to the joists as flooring but there are no noggins in between the joists. The problem is I keep getting small cracks in the ceilings which when filled come back again in winter and Summers so I'm blue in the face from repairing them. Are these cracks likely to be caused by the lack of noggins and if so what is the recommended distance between noggins on a joist run.

    Thank for your help

    Noggings are generally required for spans greater than 2.7m, and should be at max. 1.35m centres.


  • #3
    balcoder101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭balcoder101


    @Penn Thanks for the reply, I presume I have to use the same board width/thickness as the joist which are 9 X 2 for the noggins.


  • #4
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,519 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    balcoder101 wrote: »
    @Penn Thanks for the reply, I presume I have to use the same board width/thickness as the joist which are 9 X 2 for the noggins.

    I don't think it has to be. Usually done just for convenience, cut them from the same timbers as the joists. Sometimes they use two smaller diagonal noggings in an X between the joists instead.

    Not sure off the top of my head what minimum depth the noggings should be compared to the joists. I'd assume no more than 50mm shallower than the joists as a general rule. Allows you to run services or cables under the noggings rather than core and pull them through the noggings.


  • #5
    balcoder101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭balcoder101


    @ Penn that's great I was hoping I could leave a gap for cables between the noggins and the ceiling plasterboard.

    So if my joists are 225mmx44mm(9x2) and I cut the noggins out of 175mmx44mm(7X2) that would leave a 50 mm gap for cable runs between the noggin and the ceiling plasterboard.

    Should the noggin be centered in the joist leaving 25mm top and bottom, or can the gap be 50mm between the ceiling plasterboard and noggin, with it being flush at the top of the joist?

    Thanks again for the help Penn


  • #6
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Best to be flush at the top.
    What spans are we talking about here?
    are the joists on hangers, if so noggins are required at each end.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • #7
    balcoder101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭balcoder101


    @Calahonda52
    The joist run is 8 meters or the width of the house. No hangers just bolted on to the rafters and resting on the center wall which runs around the middle of the house.


  • #8
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,692 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Isn't this normally referred to as bracing?

    While you might be stuck in some locations that have existing pipes or wiring, you could easily pre-drill the pieces of timber, so you don't have to drill them in-situ.


  • #9
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Bolted? You sure?

    I would be adding noggins at each end as well

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #10
    balcoder101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭balcoder101


    @Calahonda52

    Yes the joists are bolted on to the rafters as far as I can see, maybe I'm using the wrong terms. I took a photo but still a little hard to see it properly, It might explain it better.
    o6PUHRm

    https://imgur.com/o6PUHRm

    Here is a better picture

    https://imgur.com/S8hibXe


  • #11
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,857 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Victor wrote: »
    Isn't this normally referred to as bracing?
    Can be depending on location. Struts / Strutting would be how they are referred to in the NW :)


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