Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

Dnxncofiruwvx · 20-03-2021 12:45PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I was to transfer say €50 into Bitcoin each month via Revolut is it as simple as that?

Yep, it’s as simple as that

One thing to note - when you buy Bitcoin on Revolut you don’t actually own the Bitcoin, it’s more like an IOU note that matches the value of the asset. Many will tell you it’s better to actually own the Bitcoin you’re buying, but I reckon for someone new to the space averaging in Revolut might be the best way to do it.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Can I lose more than I spend?

Like any investment really, if the market crashes you can lose everything you put in.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- How much can you have/invest before you need to declare it to Revenue?

You can have as much Bitcoin as you want before you need to declare it to revenue. You only need to declare it once you convert it back into a euro amount again as it becomes subject to Capital Gains Tax, and even then you have a capital gains tax free allowance of €1,270.

20-03-2021 12:52PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I admit, I know very little about the whole Crypto thing (save for that I should have gotten into it when it first came up years ago ) but if I was to transfer say €50 into Bitcoin each month via Revolut is it as simple as that?

- Can I lose more than I spend?
- How much can you have/invest before you need to declare it to Revenue?

Sorry, basic/stupid questions I know but they're the 2 that jump out of me.

Yes, but you most likely won't. Look at the 5yr graph for BTC, there are a few major dips but it always recovers and the graph is upward.

For capital gains tax you only have to declare realised profits over €1270 and are then subject to 33% CGT. Of course if it's left in crypto and not converted into another crypto (taxable event) or fiat currency you have no profit to declare. See the other tax threads. For this reason you are best to avoid Revolut as the only option there is to convert back into fiat, other exchanges let you withdraw to a wallet or borrow on the strength of your crypto and load a visa card.

Dnxncofiruwvx · 20-03-2021 12:54PM

Irish_rat wrote: »

Dont take him seriously, he's only having a bit of fun I'd imagine, bit of a parody at this stage.

Everyone has to start somewhere, dca in a little bit every week. The biggest crypto millionaires went with this approach and it will work over time.

€250 a week isn’t chump change either though! Although maybe Boards very own Warren Buffet might disagree :pac:

olestoepoke · 20-03-2021 12:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, but you most likely won't. Look at the 5yr graph for BTC, there are a few major dips but it always recovers and the graph is upward.

For capital gains tax you only have to declare realised profits over €1270 and are then subject to 33% CGT. Of course if it's left in crypto and not converted into another crypto (taxable event) or fiat currency you have no profit to declare. See the other tax threads. For this reason you are best to avoid Revolut as the only option there is to convert back into fiat, other exchanges let you withdraw to a wallet or borrow on the strength of your crypto and load a visa card.

What if you converted your BTC into USDT and held that? Is that a taxable event?

Mellor · 20-03-2021 12:57PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Can I lose more than I spend?
- How much can you have/invest before you need to declare it to Revenue?

Sorry, basic/stupid questions I know but they're the 2 that jump out of me.

To answer your questions.

If are just buying BTC or any crypto. No you can’t lose more than you invest/spend.
Losing more than you invest occurs when you engage in leveraged trading. Essentially borrowing from a broker using your deposit as collateral.

No amount needs to be declared to revenue if you are just investing and holding. Only when you trade from crypto to another currency (including directly to another crypto) a taxable event occurs. Subject to CGT, with the first €1,270 of profit exempt.

20-03-2021 12:57PM

olestoepoke wrote: »

What if you converted your BTC into USDT and held that? Is that a taxable event?

Yes, you've converted one asset to another

Mellor · 20-03-2021 01:04PM

Dnxncofiruwvx wrote: »

Like any investment really, if the market crashes you can lose everything you put in.

You can have as much Bitcoin as you want before you need to declare it to revenue. You only need to declare it once you convert it back into a euro amount again as it becomes subject to Capital Gains Tax, and even then you have a capital gains tax free allowance of €1,270.

Both of those answers are incorrect.

He was asking about losing more than you put in. ie price crashes and you owe more than your entire portfolio is worth.

Second is just wrong.

Dnxncofiruwvx · 20-03-2021 01:09PM

Mellor wrote: »

Both of those answers are incorrect.

He was asking about losing more than you put in. ie price crashes and you owe more than your entire portfolio is worth.

Second is just wrong.

Pretty sure a new investor averaging in on Revolut isn’t going to be margin trading but hey you do you.

Care to explain to me what’s wrong about not having to declare investments until you convert it?

dirk_dangler · 20-03-2021 01:09PM

Graham wrote: »

The problem is, you think it's a problem.

It's a discussion board, you're going to get a fairly broad mix which probably skews towards the amateur investors rather the Gordon Gecko types.

I assume it's pretty much all amateurs/enthusiasts to be honest, the Gordon Geckos only being such in their own head.

Crypto getting more exposure to the public, a boards user new to it all checks out the crypto forum here, see the same posters talking about huge gains, going to quit day job to trade full time, will be moving to Portugal to avoid paying 33% CGT on their profits, the new investor is now thinking these cats know what they are doing, and they have just posted "buy ABC, you wont regret it" new investors drops some money on ABC, sure why not, its a recomendation from poster who are making BIG money.
Turns out a few days/weeks later these trading titans are Rinky Dink larpers, now the question is do you think that is fare that they portray themselves as big movers making serious bank?
They are leading newbies down the garden path.
So i would recommend to new investors , disregard any and all posts that recomend a coin/token unless the poster lays out a synopsis as to why, if they are going to invest in it, why wont they share their reason why?
I have made a few picks, posted my reasons, many have replied in both postitive and negative, this to me is all good, a poster might put me wise to a bit of info i did not know about that could change my outlook, but a simple " buy ABC, thank me later" brings absolutly nothing to the forum.
We all want to make money, if the BS is dropped, and posters have a reality check on what we know or dont know, the collective hive mind of Boards might just pick a few gems and make money for all, and these Rinky Dink investors could actually make real money and the fantasy in their head of quitting work to trade and move to Portugal might become a reaity.
€250 a week in a bull market, FFS posters could probably find that rooting down the back of the sofa.

cravings · 20-03-2021 01:23PM

you already said all that a few posts ago.

and no one said 250 a week profit. and so what if they did.

don't be shaming other people talking about smaller amounts of money than you claim to have.

dirk_dangler · 20-03-2021 01:28PM

cravings wrote: »

you already said all that a few posts ago.

and no one said 250 a week profit. and so what if they did.

don't be shaming other people talking about smaller amounts of money than you claim to have.

The whole point of my post is we have posters saying they are going to quit work and trade full time they are making so much money, they then say they will be moving to Portugal to avoid paying CGT on their profits.
To a new boards member viewing this forum it sounds impressive, these cats know what they are doing, i will put money down on one of their recommendations, as a newbie ill too shall be making serious money I will follow in their foot steps to Portugal .
The reality is they made €250 in a week during a bull run.
Don’t get me wrong, €250 is a nice bit of money, if bragging about it , must have been a good week, feeling proud and want the world to know.
That €250 x 52 is €13,000, so going to give up work and trade full time, going to move to Portugal to avoid the CGT, all this wind and pîss about €250 , sure you get €203 on the dole for doing nothing.
Spoofers going to cost newbies money, and you and others are fine with that?

Mellor · 20-03-2021 01:30PM

Dnxncofiruwvx wrote: »

Pretty sure a new investor averaging in on Revolut isn’t going to be margin trading but hey you do you.

They are unlikely to be. But the fact is leveraged trading exists.
So which is why I said it won’t happen unless you are leveraging. Better to give accurate information that pretending it can’t happen imo.

Care to explain to me what’s wrong about not having to declare investments until you convert it?

You said you only have to declare it when you convert back to euro. That is not correct.
The reasons why are mentioned above.

Dnxncofiruwvx · 20-03-2021 01:37PM

Mellor wrote: »

They are unlikely to be. But the fact is leveraged trading exists.
So which is why I said it won’t happen unless you are leveraging. Better to give accurate information that pretending it can’t happen imo.

You said you only have to declare it when you convert back to euro. That is not correct.
The reasons why are mentioned above.

But I was replying specifically to this guy and the questions he asked, not about every scenario under the sun. My sincere apologies if it didn’t fit your strict criteria for a response

Mellor · 20-03-2021 01:39PM

dirk_dangler wrote: »

The reality is they made €250 in a week during a bull run.
Don’t get me wrong, €250 is a nice bit of money, if bragging about it , must have been a good week, feeling proud and want the world to know.

You keeping repeating this idea of 250 in a week profit. That’s not what was said. A few posters have pointed that out. The fact you still aren’t grasping that is making you look a bit clueless tbh.

FYI 245 DCA over 3yr is probably worth 100k now
So a tiny 5% week would be 5k not 245.

Edit: actually it would be worth $250k

Mellor · 20-03-2021 01:47PM

Dnxncofiruwvx wrote: »

But I was replying specifically to this guy and the questions he asked, not about every scenario under the sun. My sincere apologies if it didn’t fit your strict criteria for a response

Regardless what you said about Tax was wrong under every scenario, including his one.

Dohnjoe · 20-03-2021 01:49PM

dirk_dangler wrote: »

The whole point of my post is we have posters saying they are going to quit work and trade full time they are making so much money, they then say they will be moving to Portugal to avoid paying CGT on their profits.
To a new boards member viewing this forum it sounds impressive, these cats know what they are doing, i will put money down on one of their recommendations, as a newbie ill too shall be making serious money I will follow in their foot steps to Portugal .
The reality is they made €250 in a week during a bull run.
Don’t get me wrong, €250 is a nice bit of money, if bragging about it , must have been a good week, feeling proud and want the world to know.
That €250 x 52 is €13,000, so going to give up work and trade full time, going to move to Portugal to avoid the CGT, all this wind and pîss about €250 , sure you get €203 on the dole for doing nothing.
Spoofers going to cost newbies money, and you and others are fine with that?

No one here is a "trader". Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of crypto can make some casino style spreads in a bull run, especially one like this.

1. Find a coin that hasn't moved much relative to the rest of the market
2. Throw some money on it
3. If it goes up, post about it
4. If it doesn't, then don't

The market won't defy gravity forever and when it does go down, all the bull fundamentalists magically disappear and the doom and gloom bear merchants reappear. Rinse, repeat.

In my experience, as mentioned before, the people with the biggest stacks are those who buy when it's all down, and sit on it for years. There's not much skill required, just patience and sometimes a little luck. No one I know who is on a big stack is buying right now, they are either holding or selling.

cnocbui · 20-03-2021 01:54PM

dirk_dangler wrote: »

The whole point of my post is we have posters saying they are going to quit work and trade full time they are making so much money, they then say they will be moving to Portugal to avoid paying CGT on their profits.
To a new boards member viewing this forum it sounds impressive, these cats know what they are doing, i will put money down on one of their recommendations, as a newbie ill too shall be making serious money I will follow in their foot steps to Portugal .
The reality is they made €250 in a week during a bull run.
Don’t get me wrong, €250 is a nice bit of money, if bragging about it , must have been a good week, feeling proud and want the world to know.
That €250 x 52 is €13,000, so going to give up work and trade full time, going to move to Portugal to avoid the CGT, all this wind and pîss about €250 , sure you get €203 on the dole for doing nothing.
Spoofers going to cost newbies money, and you and others are fine with that?

You are not doing yourself any favours and are digging yourself deeper with almost every post. The €250 has been explained to you by several people and you still don't get it. The million satoshis wasn't profit, it was their weekly buy to add to their pot.

Bob24 · 20-03-2021 02:37PM

Mellor wrote: »

To answer your questions.

If are just buying BTC or any crypto. No you can’t lose more than you invest/spend.
Losing more than you invest occurs when you engage in leveraged trading. Essentially borrowing from a broker using your deposit as collateral.

No amount needs to be declared to revenue if you are just investing and holding. Only when you trade from crypto to another currency (including directly to another crypto) a taxable event occurs. Subject to CGT, with the first €1,270 of profit exempt.

Just to ad to the above: if your depositing crypto on a service which is paying you interests or if you are receiving crypto from mining/staking, those are also taxable events which need to be reported (I initially thought DIRT would apply on interests, but after quite a bit of research, I have came to the conclusion that it is income tax which is due in all of these cases).

Forks and airdrops might also be taxable but I think opinions will differ on if/how these should be reported to Revenue (I.e. are they considered a gift or income?)

20-03-2021 04:31PM

Don't even bother responded to Dick or Dirk whatever he is called. The format of his posts makes it easy to skim over so no idea how you can read them.

pioneerpro · 20-03-2021 05:34PM

dirk_dangler wrote: »

They are leading newbies down the garden path.
So i would recommend to new investors , disregard any and all posts that recomend a coin/token unless the poster lays out a synopsis as to why, if they are going to invest in it, why wont they share their reason why?
I have made a few picks, posted my reasons, many have replied in both postitive and negative, this to me is all good, a poster might put me wise to a bit of info i did not know about that could change my outlook, but a simple " buy ABC, thank me later" brings absolutly nothing to the forum.
We all want to make money, if the BS is dropped, and posters have a reality check on what we know or dont know

This honestly has to be a parody account at this point.

olestoepoke · 20-03-2021 07:25PM

pioneerpro wrote: »

This honestly has to be a parody account at this point.

Now in fairness he did go on to explain in the proceeding posts

Dnxncofiruwvx · 20-03-2021 08:19PM

Mellor wrote: »

Regardless what you said about Tax was wrong under every scenario, including his one.

Converting Bitcoin to Euro isn’t a taxable event that needs to be reported to revenue? Whatever you say Tarzan.

makeorbrake · 20-03-2021 08:23PM

Jaysus, are we all trying to fill the void left following the retreat into salty crevices of the butcher and the pintman - and the untimely passing of Johnny of the family Flash?

EagererBeaver · 20-03-2021 08:24PM

Dnxncofiruwvx wrote: »

Converting Bitcoin to Euro isn’t a taxable event that needs to be reported to revenue? Whatever you say Tarzan.

That's not what you said though. You said you only have to when it's converted to euro. You were wrong and you know you were, so why keep up the act?

cravings · 20-03-2021 08:24PM

Converting it to anything else counts as a disposal and is taxable.

Dnxncofiruwvx · 20-03-2021 08:34PM

This thread reminds me why I don’t come on Boards more often, what a cesspit!

20-03-2021 08:44PM

Dnxncofiruwvx wrote: »

This thread reminds me why I don’t come on Boards more often, what a cesspit!

They say the best way to get the correct answer to a question is to post the wrong answer on the internet!

dougal0691 · 20-03-2021 09:00PM

Dnxncofiruwvx wrote: »

This thread reminds me why I don’t come on Boards more often, what a cesspit!

it would be so much better if people were allowed post lies and no one could call them out on it.

Jeff2 · 20-03-2021 09:35PM

Bitcoin and ethereum taking a dive now.

Ripple holding up well.

Whelo79 · 20-03-2021 10:28PM

Jeff2 wrote: »

Bitcoin and ethereum taking a dive now.

Ripple holding up well.

$59,500 to 58,500 is a dive????

Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

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