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Near Misses Thread Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

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Comments

  • #1022
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭cletus


    Steoller wrote: »
    I'm going to have to take issue with your assertion there. Even with the current licensing regulations, too many people who are dangerously unqualified to drive are being certified to get behind the wheel. Asking for those regulations to be beefed up, is not equivalent to asking for an unnecessary license on a mode of transport that is no more dangerous than walking.

    On what basis is your assertion about dangerously unqualified drivers being licenced made?
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1023
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    cletus wrote: »
    On what basis is your assertion about dangerously unqualified drivers being licenced made?

    Car drivers claiming that cyclists put them at risk and are a danger on the road would be a good indicator that they need more awareness on the road and of other road users.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1024
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭cletus


    This feels very like a discussion we had here before about roads being more dangerous. Without rehashing it all again, the empirical data doesn't support this.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1025
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭cletus


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    That’s also a good point. IMO Our roads are not THAT dangerous. But then again, how do you judge a safe road? I cycle along roads which I feel are safe, but others who are not as experienced/confident on a bike as I am think the roads I cycle on are lethal!

    If you take the footage that started this discussion, would everyone be happy to send a 12yearold child cycling on that road?

    Edit: I had a discussion online about a certain road and how safe it was and I was told it’s perfectly safe as “there’s no record of any fatalities on that road”
    This is true, but is that the best way to determine if a road is safe?

    At any point in time, given a set of circumstances any road or section of road can be lethal, insofar as somebody could die on it. You can't base any macro understanding of anything at all, not just road safety, on anecdotes, one off incidences, personal histories, or anything else that's not aggregated data that has been collected and compiled, preferably over a number of years, so that there are sets of data to compare with. Otherwise it's the old "my grandmother smoked till she was 93, and she never got cancer" routine.

    My initial question here was mostly rhetorical, because I don't believe the poster I asked it of actually has any data to back up the assertion that there are large numbers of dangerously unqualified drivers are being given licences
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1026
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭cletus


    robinph wrote: »
    Car drivers claiming that cyclists put them at risk and are a danger on the road would be a good indicator that they need more awareness on the road and of other road users.

    That is not the same as, quote "...too many people who are dangerously unqualified to drive are being certified to get behind the wheel"end quite
    Post edited by CramCycle on


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  • #1027
    hesker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭hesker


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    That’s also a good point. IMO Our roads are not THAT dangerous. But then again, how do you judge a safe road? I cycle along roads which I feel are safe, but others who are not as experienced/confident on a bike as I am think the roads I cycle on are lethal!

    If you take the footage that started this discussion, would everyone be happy to send a 12yearold child cycling on that road?

    Edit: I had a discussion online about a certain road and how safe it was and I was told it’s perfectly safe as “there’s no record of any fatalities on that road”
    This is true, but is that the best way to determine if a road is safe?

    I know the road in question extremely well. It’s not particularly dangerous. It depends on the 12 year old and their level of road craft.
    That particular merge point would be seen the length and breadth of the country
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1028
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭cletus


    Steoller wrote: »
    Admittedly, personal experience, from the boss who ran his van over a row of ducks and didn't realise it despite two passengers telling him to watch out, or the neighbour who drove well into his nineties despite not being able to make out road-signs, and several others.

    But besides that, the existence and extent of drink driving, hit and runs, and single car collisions suggests to me that there is a large cohort people out there driving vehicles they cannot be in control of.

    Not to mention the drivers out there on their Amnesty driving licenses.

    OK, the Amnesty thing is a red herring. It happened in 1979, 42 years ago, and at the time it accounted for 45,000 people. At this juncture there would likely be much fewer of them on the road.

    You have given two examples of poor driving, and alluded to others. You have made no comment about how many examples of good driving you might see on any given day. The last time I cycled to work, I had a ridiculously close pass by a bus driver. It stands out to me because of how bad it was. I did not extrapolate this out to all bus drivers, or all drivers around Naas, or any other subset.

    With regards to fatalities etc. the last time this was discussed, I showed data that demonstrated that driving in Ireland was certainly no worse than many other EU countries, and better than many.

    So, again, is there any actual data that supports your contention that there is largenumbers of dangerously unqualified drivers being issued licences in this country.

    This is not to say there isn't poor driving, but we need to be careful with the language we use and how we present our arguments.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1029
    hesker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭hesker


    I’ve looked at it several times there now again to see if my view has changed. The rearward view gives a better perspective I think. His arm doesn’t go out until the car has passed and he almost immediately is crossing the dotted line. From when his arm goes out to when the van draws level with him is about 2-3 secs.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1030
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    That the van has the time to make the move to the left in retribution for him daring to merge means there was plenty of space and that the van knew they were there.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1031
    hesker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭hesker


    I’m done arguing. The Gardai found fault with both road users. It’s easy to spin the argument that the cyclist is being victimised but the video won’t support his appeal in my opinion in this instance. But you never know how these things will play out
    Post edited by CramCycle on


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  • #1032
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    waiting to do a U-turn at a set of lights earlier, taxi in front of me. we got a general green, and the taxi driver (who was taking a right) pulled away from the lights and then had to stand on his brakes in the middle of the junction, because he only saw the cyclist coming the other direction at the last second. i completed my u-turn, and as i passed the cyclist passed some comment about him being invisible. 'huh?' 'that taxi driver who just nearly drove into you'
    'what taxi driver?'
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1033
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Not to be too controversial about it, but if this cycle path was in Dun Laoghaire, it would be very well known.

    Yeah, but if it was in Sandymount it'd be the subject of a court order! :pac:
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1034
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Coincidentally, Dunsink Observatory tweeted this earlier...

    https://twitter.com/RaesideRose/status/1367478016889266178
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1035
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Not to be flippant, but that woman who replied has pretty much doxed herself. There might be 2 or 3 houses within 700m of the observatory!
    I had to include either her response or the one the observatory was responding to in order to embed the tweet. I chose hers simply because it was below the one I wanted to show.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1036
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i've met a chap a few times who grew up in the observatory itself. he's an ex-colleague of a friend of mine.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1037
    silverharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    https://twitter.com/clazbae/status/1368175481460305926
    Post edited by CramCycle on

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • #1038
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,486 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    That is pi$$ poor alright. Would it have killed them to go up 20-30m more if they absolutely *had* to park there?
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1039
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Breezer


    They were driving the wrong way down a one way street beside the Grand Canal cycle track in Portobello earlier. Here.

    No blue lights, sirens, or anything else. They were going slowly, but if someone had swung in it could have been messy.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1040
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    A stupid, impatient overtake today while I was mid sentence complaining about a motorist tailgating a cyclist going the other way.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g00IMGbM4ME


    360 version:
    https://youtu.be/g00IMGbM4ME

    Was great to see so many cyclists out today, almost outnumbering motorists.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1041
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭buffalo


    stoneill wrote: »
    This is a near miss the other way, I don't have video but there was a cyclist on the M4, on the actual motorway this morning who nearly got creamed about 4 times coming up to junction 6. What short-cut could possibly be worth putting your life at risk?

    Well it's very hard to answer that without knowing which direction he was coming from.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


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  • #1042
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I used to drive the M50 (J7-J14) and back every day for years.
    I would have reported a number of cyclists and pedestrians (and drivers) on the road to garda Trafficwatch.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1043
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭buffalo


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    ?? A cyclist on a motorway? Not good in any direction no?

    That wasn't the question.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1044
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    Here's another one from yesterday. Tesco van driver couldn't have picked a worse time to overtake.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2mnvyjMyDE


    360 version.
    https://youtu.be/q2mnvyjMyDE
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1045
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Interesting, in the UK, it appears that a cyclist who was reprimanded for swearing whilst being assaulted is having his five complaints against the police upheld (including that the police did not punish the driver) - I've included the original video below...
    Cycling UK member David Brennan was assaulted while cycling to work. The driver was not prosecuted and shockingly, David himself was given a police warning for swearing. Now he’s teaming up with Cycling UK to call for significant changes in the way vulnerable road users are treated in Scotland.
    https://twitter.com/magnatom/status/1369644952452542465

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYp2BBEVO28
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1046
    Duckjob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    fat bloke wrote: »
    That's an over reaction from the cyclist imo

    Edit, whoops! By which I mean the man on the bicycle! :)

    I don't think it's such an over reaction TBH, a car driver speeding up and moving in swiftly in on top on you for no good reason, other than to threaten.

    And WTF is wrong with that driver ? I mean, you're in a bit long line of traffic, you're going nowhere fast anyway. Why the need to be an aggressive dick because someone on a bike filters past and goes in front of you ?
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1047
    buffalo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭buffalo


    CramCycle wrote: »
    While the driver was completely in the wrong for the assault and for driving to the rear of the car in front, he didn't drive at the guy on the bike, he possibly (stupidly) thought the space the bike used was enough and then the cyclist started drifting out. The car is 100% in the wrong but maybe I am numb to poor driving I don't think it was intentional. From the car drivers perspective the bike drifts out before he has fully filtered and then belts his car. Not that the cyclist had too as its in the same lane but I would have indicated to show I plan to go around the turning car.

    I wouldn't say he's drifted out, I'd say he's completed an overtake (on the left) and is taking the lane again. The driver is clearly either aggressive or not paying the slightest bit of attention, hard to tell from outside. The 'every day' comment makes me think it was the former.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1048
    Enduro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,828 ✭✭✭Enduro


    CramCycle wrote: »
    He had barely completed it though, now the fault is 100% with the motorist for being a bit of column A (driving up the arse of the other car) and column B (didn't realise what was actually happening). Don't get me wrong, the driver is a pr1ck and deserves to be locked up but just as a side note, I don't think he intentionally drove at him, at best he intentionally cut him off for no real reason. Like I said, I see worse every day so it kind of blows over me. I wouldn't have pulled out until the driver had acknowledged I was coming out or I was fully ahead.

    It looks to me like it was intentional. Before the filtering you can see that the car is so far right that he has crossed over the center line marking of the road. Given the subsequent interaction I would guess he was deliberatly trying to prevent the ccyclist from getting in front (like he does "every day"), and got angry because the cyclist filtered left, throwing his blocking master plan into disarray. He was very quick out of the car.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1049
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    the speed at which the driver gets out and assaults the cyclists speaks volumes. anyone who was innocent of malice in that instance would have been sitting in the car thinking 'WTF?' but he's out and assaulting the cyclist within seconds. and as above, the 'every day' comment would seem to support this.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


  • #1050
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The car driver was looking for a confrontation. Blocking the chance of a pass on the right, then gets annoyed that the cyclist moved to the left whilst he wasn't watching his mirrors so squeezes him to the left.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


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  • #1051
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Driver was a tosser who was deliberately blocking an overtake on the right the whole way up, and moved to block the cyclist in after he overtook on the left. However, it was all very low speed and the cyclist was in no danger. The best thing to do would have been to let the left turning car go left. At that point, the eejit driver would either have been stopped in traffic and there’d be space to go ahead again, or he’ll be moving and the cyclist could filter in behind him.

    The cyclist was hysterical. Hitting the car was totally unwarranted in those circumstances. I suppose the driver could have been on the phone and therefore likely to continue to push him off the road, though it’s more likely he would have hit the car in front first. The cyclist had a split second to make up his mind, but I still think I’d have adjusted my course and shouted, at most.

    Obviously that all changed when the driver got out of the car and assaulted him. No excuses there, and the police not prosecuting is inexcusable.

    On the wider issue, when I first started cycling daily 3 years ago, I read this thread a lot. I learned a lot about road position and how to anticipate stupid things drivers are likely to do. As a result, I’ve had, I think, two incidents that could be called dangerous. I’ve had a lot of annoying incidents, and some of those could have been dangerous had I not reacted (as in braking, not having a row). My view is that these incidents happen on the roads, no matter what mode of transport you’re using, and it’s better for my enjoyment of my day not to engage.

    I still haven’t gotten a camera. Maybe I should have one. I did have an incident in a car once, where a dash cam would almost certainly have resulted in an insurance pay out in my favour, and instead I had to pay for a repair. But I think they also lead certain people to become more confrontational. I should caveat that my commute is mostly bus and cycle lane, and there are some videos of truly dangerous driving on here, that I’ve learned a lot from. And I’d probably feel differently if I were out with kids, or whatever.
    Post edited by CramCycle on


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