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Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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Comments

  • #6242
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Can't see Sinn Fein getting 50 seats. They will lose a few next time out, as well as gaining as the likes of Reada and Violet are unelectable now that people see them for what they are.

    you've been wrong on every sf election prediction so far. they will not make the same mistake twice and next time will run plenty of candidates. all the waffle in the world wont help FF, FG or the greens


  • #6243
    Whatisthisnow
    Site Banned Posts: 301 ✭✭Whatisthisnow


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Well 2,dont exaggerate :D
    Eamon o'Caoimh being one
    That excites me no end....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-tds-would-not-exclude-sinn-f%C3%A9in-coalition-after-next-election-1.4478483

    Nearly 20 my friend


  • #6244
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Yup
    Only the Taoiseach can access those,I believe probably after requesting them from the justice minister
    If theres any other method,you can let me know
    Just on my post,though they wont directly say it,Id imagine its the biggest reason FG FF and labour dont want to do business with Sinn Féin

    Don't kid yourself , state security would be useful as a sieve if you were stuck


  • #6245
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    Don't kid yourself , state security would be useful as a sieve if you were stuck

    They dont call this the opinion forum for nothing


  • #6246
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Whatisthisnow wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ff-tds-would-not-exclude-sinn-f%C3%A9in-coalition-after-next-election-1.4478483

    Nearly 20 my friend

    Wishy washy weasel words designed for the equivalent of likes,namely transfers
    Only the usual 2,McSharry and o'Caoimh are emphatic,similar to the last election
    Beware comments prompted by journalists asking questions like that as thry invariably get ambigous answers
    Election time,emphatic
    Post election ambigous
    It was always thus

    Realisticly though,carefull what you wish for as mark my words,when SF go into government,they wont be the Sinn Féin you know and love anymore
    They'll be the civil servants and unions 'go fors' like everyone in government ever


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  • #6247
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    It shouldn't be an overly challenging question to answer for him/her though, he/she is showing some reticence.



    It is either right or wrong for a Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, if it is OK for one Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document (as he/she claims) then it has to be OK for any Taoiseach to leak a CONFIDENTIAL document, yea, or am I missing something here?

    I have answered the question. I wouldn't let her anywhere near being Taoiseach.


  • #6248
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
    It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    I have answered the question. I wouldn't let her anywhere near being Taoiseach.

    You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

    No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

    Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.


  • #6249
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,533 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
    It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



    You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

    No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

    Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.

    We are in 'allegation is sufficient' territory of blanch's political creed.


  • #6250
    Whatisthisnow
    Site Banned Posts: 301 ✭✭Whatisthisnow


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Wishy washy weasel words designed for the equivalent of likes,namely transfers
    Only the usual 2,McSharry and o'Caoimh are emphatic,similar to the last election
    Beware comments prompted by journalists asking questions like that as thry invariably get ambigous answers
    Election time,emphatic
    Post election ambigous
    It was always thus

    Realisticly though,carefull what you wish for as mark my words,when SF go into government,they wont be the Sinn Féin you know and love anymore
    They'll be the civil servants and unions 'go fors' like everyone in government ever

    Unless SF have a better candidate in my area, i will be going SDs first as i did last year


  • #6251
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
    It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



    You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

    No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

    Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.


    The question will never arise.

    It is a hypotethical question being used as a tactical debating tool, that I choose not to answer in the way that is phrased, given the reductionist attempt to over-simplify a complicated issue. There is no obligation on any poster to answer any question, and as I have pointed out, I have answered it in a different way.


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  • #6252
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The question will never arise.

    It is a hypotethical question being used as a tactical debating tool, that I choose not to answer in the way that is phrased, given the reductionist attempt to over-simplify a complicated issue. There is no obligation on any poster to answer any question, and as I have pointed out, I have answered it in a different way.

    No you haven't answered it, and obviously have no intention of doing so, just waffle on interminably.


  • #6253
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    No you haven't answered it, and obviously have no intention of doing so, just waffle on interminably.

    I have addressed the issue comprehensively.


  • #6254
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I have addressed the issue comprehensively.

    You have waffled, comprehensively


  • #6255
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    You have waffled, comprehensively

    I am not going to be bullied by another poster into following their limited agenda.


  • #6256
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    You have waffled, comprehensively

    So possible FG coup if Mary Lou becomes Taoiseach?

    Charlie Flanagan designing his generals uniform


  • #6257
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
    It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



    You may not want to have Mary Lou as Taoiseach, but you have very little choice in it, that is up to the electorate, unless you are thinking of going down the Myanmar route.

    No you didn't answer the question, and it's a very simple one that shouldn't challenge anybody to answer. So I will ask it again, and there are only 2 answers YES or NO.

    Would you have a problem with Taoiseach Mary Lou McDonald passing a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to anybody outside of Government.

    One would assume that a precedent has now been set and it is ok for any Taoiseach of any hue to be able pass documents marked confidential to anybody outside government.

    The reason why this is not being answered is because the FFG have now backed themselves into a corner by supporting Leo Varadkar.


  • #6258
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Floppybits wrote: »
    One would assume that a precedent has now been set and it is ok for any Taoiseach of any hue to be able pass documents marked confidential to anybody outside government.

    The reason why this is not being answered is because the FFG have now backed themselves into a corner by supporting Leo Varadkar.

    A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

    There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.


  • #6259
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,533 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

    There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

    The precedent is set if there is no sanction, any Taoiseach can do this and answer for it later if caught.

    No point worrying about spilt milk as they say. You guys have given any Taoiseach the right here, including a Shinner one. That's the bottom line.


  • #6260
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    blanch152 wrote: »
    A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

    There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

    I am not misinterpreting anything. The facts are that FFG by their support of Leo Varadkar have now set the precedent that the Taoiseach can leak confidential documents to whomever they like. So now it does not matter who is the Taoiseach or what party they are from FFG have not got a leg to stand on simple as that.

    You can tie yourself up in knots with your civil service speak/weasel words or whatever, the facts are that Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach leaked a confidential document to a person outside government and FFG have now said that this is ok by supporting him. So if it does turn out that we have Taoiseach who is not FF or FG then the same precedent that this government has set will apply to them.

    You can't be having it one way for one group but another way for another group either it applies to all to applies to none.


  • #6261
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
    It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

    There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

    But those good public policy reasons might apply in some situations, and as you say the Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best, so if Mary Lou, as Taoiseach, decided herself that there were good public policy reasons to give a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to a buddy it would be OK.


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  • #6262
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,049 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    Originally Posted by blanch152 View Post
    It is a simple matter to me. The Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best.



    But those good public policy reasons might apply in some situations, and as you say the Taoiseach has the responsibility of deciding what is best, so if Mary Lou, as Taoiseach, decided herself that there were good public policy reasons to give a document marked CONFIDENTIAL to a buddy it would be OK.


    Heard Sarkozy tried that defence too!!


  • #6263
    jm08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Why do you think I oppose Sinn Fein ever being let into government?

    Going on what happens in the North, she won't need to do that, every convicted terrorist will be given a job as an advisor or on a board.


    One of the two pieces of original legislation passed by Stormont is that anyone with a conviction cannot be given a job as a special advisor. Thank the TUV for that one.


  • #6264
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    jm08 wrote: »
    One of the two pieces of original legislation passed by Stormont is that anyone with a conviction cannot be given a job as a special advisor. Thank the TUV for that one.

    Yes, but they can be given cushy numbers on the Education Authority.


  • #6265
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, but they can be given cushy numbers on the Education Authority.
    If only any of the previous governments had put an end to cronyism once and for all...


  • #6266
    Floppybits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Suckit wrote: »
    If only any of the previous governments had put an end to cronyism once and for all...

    All this cronyism and other crap that has been carried out by previous governments is going to come back and bite them if they end up in opposition and the government of the day decide to do what previous governments have done.

    Hopefully if this ever happens they won't but you never can tell seems parties when they get into government get some sort of brain wipe so that anything they have said in the years previous when is opposition are all wiped from memory.


  • #6267
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    So possible FG coup if Mary Lou becomes Taoiseach?

    Charlie Flanagan designing his generals uniform

    Not sure of the design but I can guess the two prominent colours.


  • #6268
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    A complete misinterpretation of the situation.

    There were good public policy reasons for Varadkar's actions, as he has explained many times. Those good public policy reasons won't necessarily apply in every single other situation.

    You said it was up to him, in his position at the time, to decide.
    That's the point. Same would then be true when Gino from PBP is Taoiseach :)
    Too uncomfortable for you to accept that. It challenges your hypocrisy regarding all things Fine Gael.
    If it's up to the Taoiseach to decide, that's it. The reasons become irrelevant. That's the reasoning behind why a liar like Varadkar got away with it.
    You want one rule for FG, one rule for others. Democracy doesn't work like that, (not even up the north anymore).


  • #6269
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Suckit wrote: »
    If only any of the previous governments had put an end to cronyism once and for all...

    I believe he's referencing the SF/SDLP/DUP process of putting people forward for boards, up north. It is a Varadkar/FG thread after all.


  • #6270
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Suckit wrote: »
    If only any of the previous governments had put an end to cronyism once and for all...

    Well, all of those governments in the North have included SF representatives so I am not one bit surprised that corruption in appointments have actually increased.


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  • #6271
    Cute Hoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Cute Hoor


    James Brown wrote: »
    You said it was up to him, in his position at the time, to decide.
    That's the point. Same would then be true when Gino from PBP is Taoiseach :)
    Too uncomfortable for you to accept that. It challenges your hypocrisy regarding all things Fine Gael.
    If it's up to the Taoiseach to decide, that's it. The reasons become irrelevant. That's the reasoning behind why a liar like Varadkar got away with it.
    You want one rule for FG, one rule for others. Democracy doesn't work like that, (not even up the north anymore).

    Not alone does he/she want one rule for FG and one rule for others, he/she cannot even admit this


This discussion has been closed.
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