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Penalty points on a learner permit

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    #32
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,232 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    The op is learning drive, learning to drive and will make mistakes, would have thought pulled over and warning to take more care next time would suffice.


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    #33
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Just observing this one and it does seem harsh on the explanation given by the OP ... I did have a thought though, do Garda cars have dashcams fitted and if so, can they be used in court - by either party?


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    #34
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    Just observing this one and it does seem harsh on the explanation given by the OP ... I did have a thought though, do Garda cars have dashcams fitted and if so, can they be used in court - by either party?

    I was thinking this myself and wondering could I request to see it.


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    #35
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    I was thinking this myself and wondering could I request to see it.

    Very few have anpr, so I'd be doubtful if they are all fitted with dash cams
    I think 50 were trialled in traffic Corp cars in 2005ish don't know what came of that.

    I'm genuinely curious though what is she citing you with.

    Was it a minor road to a major road with either a yield sign or line op?


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    #36
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Very few have anpr, so I'd be doubtful if they are all fitted with dash cams
    I think 50 were trialled in traffic Corp cars in 2005ish don't know what came of that.

    I'm genuinely curious though what is she citing you with.

    Was it a minor road to a major road with either a yield sign or line op?

    Yes it was a minor road to a major road but there was no line or yield sign, it was a country side road. Either way I stopped and drive out when I could see the car was a safe distance. Lesson learned I wont do it again but now im confused, what if a road is very busy, do I wait for a break in the traffic when I know cars are a safe distance or do I have to sit in a side road for hours until the road is completely clear?


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    #37
    newmember2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    im confused, what if a road is very busy, do I wait for a break in the traffic when I know cars are a safe distance or do I have to sit in a side road for hours until the road is completely clear?

    That all depends on how fast the traffic is moving on the road you're joining and how far down the road you can see.


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    #38
    Buddy Bubs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Yes it was a minor road to a major road but there was no line or yield sign, it was a country side road. Either way I stopped and drive out when I could see the car was a safe distance. Lesson learned I wont do it again but now im confused, what if a road is very busy, do I wait for a break in the traffic when I know cars are a safe distance or do I have to sit in a side road for hours until the road is completely clear?

    Yes, you wait for a break in traffic so you can pull out and be up to speed by time they get to you....what is reasonable here will vary from person to person but I'd say if you can get out ahead of them so they don't have to brake to stay safe distance behind you its reasonable.

    Of course you have to take into account someone may be over speed limit and that may not be obvious until they are close, but you can't control others really.

    Also, knowing your car helps here. Some cars can get up to speed very easily and quickly where less powerful ones, the likes of which learners frequently drive, take longer and more planning required.


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    #39
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    newmember? wrote: »
    That all depends on how fast the traffic is moving on the road you're joining and how far down the road you can see.

    Essentially this if you can see a car on the road legally you have to yield right of way to it.
    Now does everyone do that no, but technically we are all obliged to.
    If you do it in a test and get an arsey tester they'll fail you for it or give you a mark 2


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    #40
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users Posts: 9,065 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Guarantee the OP did a handbrake skid with their arm out the window and nearly crashed into the Garda car.


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    #41
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Guarantee the OP did a handbrake skid with their arm out the window and nearly crashed into the Garda car.

    Guarantee I definitely didn't do anything close to this :rolleyes:


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    #42
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    Maybe ring the station and ask if the garda who pulled you over could explain exactly what the issue was? Because if its as you say then the points are harsh considering you're a learner with someone licensed beside you


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    #43
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    Maybe ring the station and ask if the garda who pulled you over could explain exactly what the issue was? Because if its as you say then the points are harsh considering you're a learner with someone licensed beside you

    To be fair they were stopping cyclists down the road so may just be one of those guards.


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    #44
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    frozenfrozen wrote: »
    Maybe ring the station and ask if the garda who pulled you over could explain exactly what the issue was? Because if its as you say then the points are harsh considering you're a learner with someone licensed beside you

    Thanks, yes I would like to speak to someone about it but im a nervous speaker, as mentioned I have an anxiety disorder and it makes it hard for me to speak out under pressure. I literally freeze and cant get my words out, im on medication for it and it helps with taking panic attacks but I still find day to day stuff & confrontation difficult. The guard had such a bad attitude, felt like I was being scolded like a child.


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    #45
    newmember2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    To be fair they were stopping cyclists down the road so may just be one of those guards.

    A garda who enforces the rules of the road? Heavens above!


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    #46
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Thanks, yes I would like to speak to someone about it but im a nervous speaker, as mentioned I have an anxiety disorder and it makes it hard for me to speak out under pressure. I literally freeze and cant get my words out, im on medication for it and it helps with taking panic attacks but I still find day to day stuff & confrontation difficult. The guard had such a bad attitude, felt like I was being scolded like a child.

    It's hard but I'd say give it a go maybe bring a family member or friend with you incase you freeze up.
    There's only a small amount of offences that carry 3 points and an €80 fine


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    #47
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    newmember? wrote: »
    A garda who enforces the rules of the road? Heavens above!

    Garda have discretion for a reason and often educating new motorists serves much better than penalising them for honest mistakes where no incidents or damage results from naivety and inexperience.
    We also don't know what they pulled the cyclists for, so take your sarcasm bundle it up and throw it in the direction of someone that cares.


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    #48
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    It's hard but I'd say give it a go maybe bring a family member or friend with you incase you freeze up.
    There's only a small amount of offences that carry 3 points and an €80 fine

    Are they often serious offences? 3 points seems like a lot.


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    #49
    delboythedub
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭delboythedub


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Can anyone give advice please?
    I was driving today from a country road onto a main road from a junction. There was no other cars on the road besides an unmarked garda car that was far away from me as I was turning onto the road. The guards pulled me over and said I drove out in front of them and said i'll get a fine and penalty points on my license and the fine is doubled because im a learner, I was easily able to pull out and drive before they caught up with me so no chance of me being to close to them before I pulled out. I had a full license driver with me in the car.
    How many points am I looking at and can I repeal this? Also, how will this effect my insurance? It already costs me nearly 2k because im a learner.

    Thanks
    Fit a Dash Cam


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    #50
    newmember2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Garda have discretion for a reason and often educating new motorists serves much better than penalising them for honest mistakes where no incidents or damage results from naivety and inexperience.
    We also don't know what they pulled the cyclists for, so take your sarcasm bundle it up and throw it in the direction of someone that cares.

    Exactly, so why come out with a comment like this?...
    Mjolnir wrote: »
    To be fair they were stopping cyclists down the road so may just be one of those guards.

    Are you seeing the irony here at all?


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    #51
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Are they often serious offences? 3 points seems like a lot.

    Parking in a dangerous position
    Dangerous overtaking
    Failure to stop before a stop sign/line
    Failure to yield at a sign/line
    Crossing continious white line
    Failure to obey lights
    Failure to leave sufficient distance between you and car in front
    Speeding

    As far as I remember, there could potentially be others I'm forgetting. I'm fairly sure if you do challenge them and are subsequently convicted of the offence they jump to 5 points.


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    #52
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    newmember? wrote: »
    Exactly, so why come out with a comment like this?...



    Are you seeing the irony here at all?

    Because there aren't as many reasons to stop cyclists as motorists I'd highly doubt that the cyclist was speeding. I'd also doubt their motor tax or nct was out of date.
    Most cyclists are left be, especially on rural roads bar acting the complete maggot.
    For all we know they could of been two abreast and the guard just couldn't overtake. They also could of done something dangerous, who knows. Point still stands cyclists being stopped in rural Ireland is incredibly rare.

    There are plenty of arsey guards who look for any excuse to pull people, there are plenty of sound ones who use their discretion in situations where it is warranted.


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    #53
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    newmember? wrote: »
    Exactly, so why come out with a comment like this?...



    Are you seeing the irony here at all?

    To be fair the guard I spoke to today was like a little bully, she spoke down to me and wouldnt answer the passenger in my car. She had a really nasty attitude, theres ways of saying things and ways of behaving, if I had spoken to her like that it would have resulted in a confrontation.
    To give penalty points and a double fine to learner driver for a mistake who caused no damage and no other laws broken, it is very harsh.

    Ive never had any run ins with the guards in my life but today gave me a totally different opinion of them. It really was like they were on a power trip and had nothing better to do with their time.


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    #54
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,916 ✭✭✭con747


    Maybe a 5km rule might have a large part of cyclists being pulled over.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #55
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Parking in a dangerous position
    Dangerous overtaking
    Failure to stop before a stop sign/line
    Failure to yield at a sign/line
    Crossing continious white line
    Failure to obey lights
    Failure to leave sufficient distance between you and car in front
    Speeding

    As far as I remember, there could potentially be others I'm forgetting. I'm fairly sure if you do challenge them and are subsequently convicted of the offence they jump to 5 points.

    Thanks, I cant see were I did any of these? So dont know why im getting 3 points and a double fine.


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    #56
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    One side of the story and all that.

    To play the cynic, of course the OP is going to make it sound like everything they did was roses.


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    #57
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    To be fair the guard I spoke to today was like a little bully, she spoke down to me and wouldnt answer the passenger in my car. She had a really nasty attitude, theres ways of saying things and ways of behaving, if I had spoken to her like that it would have resulted in a confrontation.
    To give penalty points and a double fine to learner driver for a mistake who caused no damage and no other laws broken, it is very harsh.

    Ive never had any run ins with the guards in my life but today gave me a totally different opinion of them. It really was like they were on a power trip and had nothing better to do with their time.

    I think you should ring and just do your best asking for an explanation. Even if you have to tell them nevermind and hang up you won't be any worse off and you might find out. And the guard may end up saying just do a few more lessons and forget about it...


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    #58
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Thanks, I cant see were I did any of these? So dont know why im getting 3 points and a double fine.

    I would assume failure to yield.
    If there is no sign and no visible line but you are entering from a road of minor importance to a main road with visible moving traffic on the main road it would be considered to be failure to yield.


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    #59
    Mjolnir
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    callaway92 wrote: »
    One side of the story and all that.

    To play the cynic, of course the OP is going to make it sound like everything they did was roses.

    100% which is why I'd be inclined to say its a failure to yield to the guard on the main road. Like I said they would technically be correct and well within their scope to do the op for it.


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    #60
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    Because there aren't as many reasons to stop cyclists as motorists I'd highly doubt that the cyclist was speeding. I'd also doubt their motor tax or nct was out of date.
    Most cyclists are left be, especially on rural roads bar acting the complete maggot.
    For all we know they could of been two abreast and the guard just couldn't overtake. They also could of done something dangerous, who knows. Point still stands cyclists being stopped in rural Ireland is incredibly rare.

    There are plenty of arsey guards who look for any excuse to pull people, there are plenty of sound ones who use their discretion in situations where it is warranted.

    I didn't think this was an offence? A cyclist is entitled to cycle anywhere on their carriageway/side of the road. No obligation to keep left beside the verge/kerb...


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    #61
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,232 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    I wonder how a fair judge would see this?


This discussion has been closed.
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