The Boggers Log

OOnegative · 23-01-2021 10:40PM

Alberto Salazar tried to change Alan Webb’s running style/gait and ruined what was at the time USA’s greatest middle distance talent. Your no Alan Webb, but don’t be trying to change what comes naturally to you, change isn’t always a good thing.

ThebitterLemon · 23-01-2021 10:48PM

OOnegative wrote: »

Alberto Salazar tried to change Alan Webb’s running style/gait and ruined what was at the time USA’s greatest middle distance talent. Your no Alan Webb, but don’t be trying to change what comes naturally to you, change isn’t always a good thing.

Have to B.

Fair point but the Back won’t stand the constipated duck waddle.

Need glutes and core to fire and stop the hips swaying

It’s incredibly difficult and progress is frustratingly slow.

On the positive side I think I posted here last year that my running days were over, now I’m heading for 100 straight days running and have delusions on another marathon assault

TbL

Swashbuckler · 24-01-2021 11:37PM

Thought about commenting, then thought better not, then thought why not...

Youre a more season runner than I am and have been around a lot longer than me but I just wanted to touch on the running style and you trying to fix it.

You're right to do as much s&c as you can fit in and address your historical hip and psoas issues... But one thing I would say is maybe not to over think the running style you have. I used to think the same, then after a few years with the boss I can honestly say I'm a far cry from what I used to be. I think you have to have faith in the process. What I mean by that is you'll probably see a tonne of stuff from L at MP and slower. Loads of aerobic base building. You put those weeks together consistently and the form tends to correct itself. Strides, hills etc all add to it.

I guess what I'm saying is that the supplementary stuff is good. But it's the long term consistency that will just naturally correct a lot of that....

Or I could be talking out of my hole.

Dubh Geannain · 24-01-2021 11:52PM

I changed the way I ran all the way back in 2007 after hearing Catriona McKiernan giving an interview on off the ball or whatever it was called back then. I was living in Galway at the time so was doing some extra running for what still is my only half marathon in Connamara.

She was espousing Chi running and using Kenyan runners as an example. Without having read up on it or even seen a picture I changed from heel striking to midfoot landing. I remember my calves were killed in the early days but I stuck with it and that's the way I run now. I used to bounce more off the road and was probably much less efficient so I think it's stood to me long term. I'm by no means an efficient runner but believe that made a big improvement for me. However I'd imagine the the risk of injury is increased in the initial stages of a significant change even if long term it might end up reducing the risk.

ThebitterLemon · 24-01-2021 11:56PM

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Thought about commenting, then thought better not, then thought why not...

Youre a more season runner than I am and have been around a lot longer than me but I just wanted to touch on the running style and you trying to fix it.

You're right to do as much s&c as you can fit in and address your historical hip and psoas issues... But one thing I would say is maybe not to over think the running style you have. I used to think the same, then after a few years with the boss I can honestly say I'm a far cry from what I used to be. I think you have to have faith in the process. What I mean by that is you'll probably see a tonne of stuff from L at MP and slower. Loads of aerobic base building. You put those weeks together consistently and the form tends to correct itself. Strides, hills etc all add to it.

I guess what I'm saying is that the supplementary stuff is good. But it's the long term consistency that will just naturally correct a lot of that....

Or I could be talking out of my hole.

Thanks P

If you ever get to see me running in the flesh you’ll be shocked at how ugly and nasty the form is. My left hip drifts to the left, right shoulder drops so that I’m shaped almost like a bloody banana! The hips move the glutes don’t fire and pressure/tension is put on the S1/L5.

I’ve been through numerous marathon training cycles and probably slightly improve but nowhere near enough.

My issue is that with Spondylolisthesis if I don’t correct it my running days are numbered. (Most people with Spondy are advised not to run at all)

I need to do everything I can to take pressure and stress off the spine.

I’m determined to change it, improve glute and core strength to prolong my running.

The downside is that I’m continually sore/achey from other muscles that heretofore haven’t worked/fired.

TbL

ThebitterLemon · 25-01-2021 12:01AM

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

I changed the way I ran all the way back in 2007 after hearing Catriona McKiernan giving an interview on off the ball or whatever it was called back then. I was living in Galway at the time so was doing some extra running for what still is my only half marathon in Connamara.

She was espousing Chi running and using Kenyan runners as an example. Without having read up on it or even seen a picture I changed from heel striking to midfoot landing. I remember my calves were killed in the early days but I stuck with it and that's the way I run now. I used to bounce more off the road and was probably much less efficient so I think it's stood to me long term. I'm by no means an efficient runner but believe that made a big improvement for me. However I'd imagine the the risk of injury is increased in the initial stages of a significant change even if long term it might end up reducing the risk.

Thanks DG

I’d often though of having a look at that as well (actually remember adverts for her course in Galway) but never got around to it.

People might think I’m joking but even small kids mock my running style!!!

I’ve had a functional movement assessment and that was very enlightening. I’ll have another one soon to gauge progress.

I’ve run ****e for 50 plus years so if it takes a year or two to make some improvements I’ll keep going.

If the back breaks down a spinal fusion beckons

TbL

ThebitterLemon · 03-02-2021 08:27PM

Happy enough with the way training is going and the body in general. Great to have your runs given to you and not have to worry about if you’re on the right track or not. Getting pissed off with the lack of racing opportunities and lockdowns as I feel I’m close to a running date and availing of Senor Healys pacing services for a sub 20 attempt.

Tipping along with core and trying to get more glute work done but I haven’t gotten that right yet.

Can feel marginal improvements in my running form (although when I meet Tang he’ll dissuade me of that

) and for the first time ever I think my walnut like glute is starting to fire.

Heading towards 100th straight day running, which is a blessing I never thought possible. Convinced I can now handle a smart marathon program for another lash at the distance hopefully in Spain later this year. Plenty of work to do before that though.

Sun: brought the young lad up to the pitch for a kick about, I use that term loosely coz trying for “top bins” and mazy dribbling in your 50’s is a bit silly! Was stiff before I even started the planned 8 mile easy but the sun was out and warm and I shuffled along like an auld monitor lizard catching rays and Vit D! 8 miles @ 8.39

Mon: don’t know why but I hate Mondays runs. Planned 40 mins easy. Horrible stiff and rigid plod with a big thick head on me.
4m @ 9.18

Tue: planned 40 min progression. Felt stiff and like I was taxidermised. Daughter offered to keep me company on part of it, 50/50 between very easy and steady.
5 mile @ 9.07

Wed: planned session wu/cd 1/2/3/2/1 mins on/off paces 6.40/7.15.
Jogged up to the Pitch which isn’t in great condition. Very misty/foggy out so I’d to be extra vigilant watching where I was turning. Managed the session fine, the only thing I struggled a bit with was the transition from faster to steady. Usually when I do faster stuff the brakes come on and the recovery is a jog crawl, took a while to acclimatise but all in all managed it with no issues

Thur: Easy progression. 5.2 miles @ 8.13. Wind on last bit made this a bit harder than I would have expected

Fri: plan easy 40 mins. My daughter had to do a ladies GA base fitness test, run 2.4k so I incorporated this into my run. Lively warm day for it and we did a mile warm up before starting an out and back for 2.4k. She ran it really well and managed to go well under 12 mins. The difference since last March with her running is incredible. From shouting matches to get her out she now goes out at least 5 times a week and ran 21k on her own in around 2 hours 10 mins. I’m delighted and it’s great to see.

4.2 @ 9.06

Sat: planned 3 x 1 mile @ 7.15 off 2 min plus 800+400+400m @ 6.50 off 90 secs.

Again managed this fine, paces: (7.09,7.12,7.10): (6.41,6.36,6.54)

Sun: planned 8 miles easy and all going swimmingly until a local young GA lad passed me at pace with a grunt. I must be hard wired wrong because a flick went off in my head and I upped it to catch him

.

Caught him after a bit and pushed it a tiny bit just because...was happy to see he was labouring so we stayed together for a couple of miles. Daft stuff and not hard to spot where he went by!
10.12/10.21/9.19/8.55/7.05/7.01/7.37/7.21

TbL

Ps. Thanks again MrMacP, that stuff is excellent

Swashbuckler · 03-02-2021 08:45PM

He's too nice, but the boss really should give you a bolloc*ing for that Sunday run! Lol

Laineyfrecks · 03-02-2021 09:18PM

10:12 down to 7:01 :eek:

S would have my guts for garter

ThebitterLemon · 03-02-2021 09:48PM

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

10:12 down to 7:01 :eek:

S would have my guts for garter

Stop stirring

Save your garter for your running ensemble:)

TbL

skyblue46 · 03-02-2021 09:50PM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stop stirring

Save your garter for your running ensemble:)

TbL

I presume its orange as well...:eek:

Laineyfrecks · 03-02-2021 09:51PM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Stop stirring

Save your garter for your running ensemble:)

TbL

Who me:P

Wouldn't be a bad idea to store my gels in :pac:

Laineyfrecks · 03-02-2021 09:53PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

I presume its orange as well...:eek:

All will be revealed when I race again :P:D

OOnegative · 03-02-2021 10:09PM

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

All will be revealed when I race again :P:D

I want photos!!!!!

skyblue46 · 03-02-2021 10:12PM

OOnegative wrote: »

I want photos!!!!!

Settle yourself...we don't want you frothing :pac::pac:

Laineyfrecks · 03-02-2021 10:20PM

OOnegative wrote: »

I want photos!!!!!

It will probably just blend in with the orange tan anyway :pac:

Lambay island · 03-02-2021 11:05PM

Huge respect for your comeback. To see you are about to hit 100 days on the trot from where you were last year shows some great character and resilience.

ThebitterLemon · 03-02-2021 11:18PM

Lambay island wrote: »

Huge respect for your comeback. To see you are about to hit 100 days on the trot from where you were last year shows some great character and resilience.

Hey thanks D

Kinda surprised myself, even at my age I’m still learning about my body and how to manage it. If I listened to some of the professional advice I initially received I wouldn’t be running now. Sometimes being a thick, competitive grumpy auld git has its advantages:)

TbL

Murph_D · 04-02-2021 09:25AM

Nothing wrong with your competitiveness anyway. What did GA lad make of it all, I wonder?

Have to admit I’ve done that myself once or twice. Bit had it done to me too.

ThebitterLemon · 07-02-2021 11:13PM

Another week completed and all went to plan, no dramas and comfortable enough.

Starting to get extreme lockdown fatigue and the sooner we can get back to some sort of normality the better. Poor weather doesn’t help. I’ve been trying to do different things to break the monotony, but haven’t really stuck at it, tried winter sea swimming but nearly had a heart attack and gave it up. Tried learning Spanish but without the prospect of asking AMK in person “donde esta la Vaseline” I lost motivation and gave up. Tried a bit of baking, the family made me give that up

Tried improving my computer skills but the last computer I was proficient on was a Commodore 64 and I gave that up too!

I’m still bbq’ing 3/4 nights a week and reading a bit more. Just finished Shelby Footes massive US Civil War trilogy, great if a very long read. I’ve walked the dog every day since we got him last March. I’ve grown a Tom Hanks Castaway beard!

If it wasn’t for running I’d be driven cracked!

Monday: post physioterrorist very easy plod. Hate Monday runs and this was awful, felt battered and rigid.

Plan 40 mins easy: 4 miles @ 9.07

Tue: plan 40 min progression. Still a bit tired from previous Sundays over exertion and given my daughter wanted to come I was happy with another 4 miles easy.

Wed: plan, wu/cd with 4/3/2/1 min on/off starting at 7.10 down to 6.40 and a controlled effort for the off. Jogged up to the ploughed field (pitch) and got stuck in. Managed this a lot more comfortably than I thought and kept the off controlled and around 7.20-7.30 pace. Jogged home for 6 miles in total.

Thur: 40 mins progression. Managed this fairly handy, started at 8.45 and worked down to 7.45. Just over 5 miles and an argument with a dick on a motorised bicycle who nearly ran me over!

Friday: plan 40 mins easy, ran with my daughter, enjoyable easy jaunt.

Sat: plan was same as last Saturday. wu/cd 3 x 1 mile @ 7.15 off 2 mins plus 800, 400, 400 @ 6.50 off 90 seconds. Had to do a bit of a detour to put the chain back on my young lads bike but managed this comfortably. (The run getting the chain was harder!) Wind was against me for the first two miles but was never under pressure here and made it home in plenty of time to watch Stoke play out another boring draw!

Sun: same as last Sunday 8 miles easy. Learned my lesson from last week and if Scarlet Johansson passed me in a lycra bodysuit I was sticking to my own pace

Very cold out and had to resort to arse hand warming on occasions!

Just over 8.5 miles @ 8.28 and another week of almost 40 miles.

TbL

AuldManKing · 08-02-2021 12:21AM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Tried learning Spanish but without the prospect of asking AMK in person “donde esta la Vaseline” I lost motivation and gave up.
TbL

People won't believe our stories!!

Murph_D · 08-02-2021 12:37AM

Maybe taking a break from Stoke-watching would perk up your lockdown.

Annie get your Run · 08-02-2021 10:07AM

Lockdown blues seems to be high right now. I signed up for a course in graphic design 3 weeks ago and have only looked at the introductory video :rolleyes:. Personally I think the weather is the issue but also this damn 5k limit which is starting to feel like a noose!

At least your running is going well!

Laineyfrecks · 08-02-2021 10:36AM

I agree, this lockdown has mentally been the toughest from anyone I have spoken to. Fair play for trying out all the different things but by the sounds of it, probably best to stick to the running :pac:

Good humour as always in your log:D

ThebitterLemon · 10-02-2021 10:57PM

The only acceptable way for a male to be seen in tights...

TbL

skyblue46 · 10-02-2021 10:58PM

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

The only acceptable way for a male to be seen in tights...

TbL

Hanging from the ceiling?

Hannibal_Smith · 11-02-2021 09:06AM

Physioterrorist :pac:

ThebitterLemon · 14-02-2021 06:01PM

Mon: plan 40 mins easy. This was my 100th straight day running, first time I’ve ever managed that! Drove up to the pitch and got 5 miles of monotonous laps done @ 8.49

Tue: plan another 40 mins easy. Back up to the pitch (trying to do some more miles on the grass as I’ve noticed I’ve started to do most of my miles on the road and the back probably benefits from the softer surface). My daughter came with me and she decided she was going to do some sprints. Was sorely tempted to join in but decided to be sensible for once and stick to the plan so while she sprinted I plodded out just over 5 miles @ 8.43

Wed: plan wu/cd 5x3 mins @ 6.50 off 90 seconds plus 4 x 30 seconds @ 6.30 off 90 secs. Jogged up to the pitch for this and managed it comfortably enough although the sprints we done by feel and came out too fast.

7.6 miles

Did over an hour stretching and rolling in the evening

Thur: plan was for 40 min progression, weather was very stormy and my daughter came with me so I changed this to easy miles. Got 5 miles very easy in.

Fri: plan was for 40 mins easy, but given I’d missed yesterday’s progression and my daughter was doing a school virtual 5k I decided to go with her and get some steadier miles done. Got a mile wu/cd and a 5k around 8.00 min pace. Daughter happy as that was a 5k PB.

Sat: plan wu/cd 2+1 mile @ 7.15 off 2 mins plus 800+400+400 @ 6.50 off 90 seconds. Gale like winds made this hard to manage especially the last parts and I really struggled to hit the pace for the last bits. 6.7 miles in total.

Sun: plan easy miles. Even windier than yesterday so I just went with the flow and plodded to just over 8.5 miles @ 8.43

Total miles for week was 43 and I’ve been fairly consistent the last few weeks.

I’m going to try and phase out my orthotics but I’ll need to do it gradually as I’m dealing with enough moving parts as it is. Thanks to Waldorf (aka FerrisB) for some pointers on this

TbL

OOnegative · 14-02-2021 07:03PM

I stopped using orthotics over 3.5 years ago to C, haven’t looked back since.

Murph_D · 14-02-2021 07:09PM

You didn’t mention anything about buying the magic shoes.

The Boggers Log

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