Beginning to Invest - All questions go here please

chabsey · 05-02-2021 11:38PM

firstquater wrote: »

XTB is legit. I use them. There is papal option to transfer funds, no fees and funds available in 1 minute. Thats what I use.

That would be an ecumenical matter Ted.

stainlesssteel · 06-02-2021 12:20AM

Apologies for the question that will probably make me look quite stupid:

I'm using etoro and used their copy trade feature. The user I'm auto-copying has closed a small portion of his portfolio leading to (very) minor profits but will likely use this to reinvest. At the end of the year do I have to pay CGT on these closed trades regardless? And if so, do I need to note the $ amount in € according to the day's exchange when this occurred?

LawBoy2018 · 06-02-2021 12:23AM

stainlesssteel wrote: »

Apologies for the question that will probably make me look quite stupid:

I'm using etoro and used their copy trade feature. The user I'm auto-copying has closed a small portion of his portfolio leading to (very) minor profits but will likely use this to reinvest. At the end of the year do I have to pay CGT on these closed trades regardless? And if so, do I need to note the $ amount in € according to the day's exchange when this occurred?

Yes you'll need to file a return if the shares were disposed of. What was the gain? If it's minor, it's probably less than the annual exemption of €1,270, meaning that you won't have any CGT to pay. You can file the Form 12 yourself in October via My Account.

stainlesssteel · 06-02-2021 12:32AM

That's great, I really appreciate the help. Yeah, we're talking pocketchange here - well under the annual examption. Considering the amount of times the trader will be closing small trades (13 in the last two days) and the amount of paperwork it'll generate it sounds like it's almost not worth keeping the copytrade open? Might be better off creating my own portfolio and having a bit more control over things with an eye on keeping things simple come October?

LawBoy2018 · 06-02-2021 12:38AM

stainlesssteel wrote: »

That's great, I really appreciate the help. Yeah, we're talking pocketchange here - well under the annual examption. Considering the amount of times the trader will be closing small trades (13 in the last two days) and the amount of paperwork it'll generate it sounds like it's almost not worth keeping the copytrade open? Might be better off creating my own portfolio and having a bit more control over things with an eye on keeping things simple come October?

No bother at all. I'm actually not familiar with the website/app you're talking about? Disposing of shares so frequently can be problematic though from a tax perspective. Your best bet would be to pick and choose your own shares + hold them long term. Less tax headaches! Best of luck.

stainlesssteel · 06-02-2021 12:40AM

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

No bother at all. I'm actually not familiar with the website/app you're talking about? Disposing of shares so frequently can be problematic though from a tax perspective. Your best bet would be to pick and choose your own shares + hold them long term. Less tax headaches! Best of luck.

Yeah, I'm beginning to realise the value in having a bit more autonomy - think I'll switch up the approach now. Thanks again

Shedite27 · 06-02-2021 09:38AM

Robson99 wrote: »

Folks bit of advice needed.
Looking to invest 500 per month. Account with trading 212. Should I
A. Set up an investment PIE with say 10 companies say made up of mixture of 90% blue chip and 10% more volatile

B. Set up PIE with say 50% blue chip and 50% Investment trusts ( Scottish mortgage, Bankers Inv Trust, Allianz Tech etc )

C. Just pick 2 or 3 Blue Chip and 2 or 3 Inv Trusts and put a say a hundred into each monthly ?

Basically is the PIE option any use ?
I just want it to do more than sitting in the bank with a bit of risk. I will still be having a float for other single companies that I would put a few bob separately into.

I'm a fan of A. Depending on your situation there's plenty of good growth companies that I'd feel very safe about putting my money in.

Robson99 · 06-02-2021 09:42AM

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'm a fan of A. Depending on your situation there's plenty of good growth companies that I'd feel very safe about putting my money in.

Cheers Shedite. That's what I was leaning towards and maybe having a small interest in one of the Investment trusts

06-02-2021 11:50AM

Hey guys just looking for some info on the MMF.

When I logged into DeGiro a few days ago there was updated terms to do with this.

With it came a new account to issue to.

My understanding of the process is that your money isn't held by them, its held by a low risk I investment fund.

I lodged e50 in and only €44 went to my account and €5.75 was in the cash account.

Even if my understanding of the process was correct in what the MMF does, I didnt understand why any portion of my deposit was taken off me.

Anyway I logged in today as my Thurs deposit is outstanding and I got an execution email(maybe related to deposit one as nothing is there) and I can't see any trace of the €5.75 that was in this cash account.

It's no longer listed in my portfolio, so basically there is no mention of any €5.75 anymore. It doesn't seem to exist... I didnt fully understand why I didn't get my full deposit to begin with and I'm more confused that the record of that money is gone now too.

*I did change my position from the LSE on PTSB and this was completed, so the only thing I can think of is that I owed then a balance to covert the shares and it's been clawed back without anything to signify that was the case.

Bob Harris · 06-02-2021 12:40PM

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Hey guys just looking for some info on the MMF.

When I logged into DeGiro a few days ago there was updated terms to do with this.

With it came a new account to issue to.

My understanding of the process is that your money isn't held by them, its held by a low risk I investment fund.

I lodged e50 in and only €44 went to my account and €5.75 was in the cash account.

Even if my understanding of the process was correct in what the MMF does, I didnt understand why any portion of my deposit was taken off me.

Anyway I logged in today as my Thurs deposit is outstanding and I got an execution email(maybe related to deposit one as nothing is there) and I can't see any trace of the €5.75 that was in this cash account.

It's no longer listed in my portfolio, so basically there is no mention of any €5.75 anymore. It doesn't seem to exist... I didnt fully understand why I didn't get my full deposit to begin with and I'm more confused that the record of that money is gone now too.

*I did change my position from the LSE on PTSB and this was completed, so the only thing I can think of is that I owed then a balance to covert the shares and it's been clawed back without anything to signify that was the case.

In DeGiro check all the transactions on you a/c to see if you've had any connectivity fees for the markets you trade on. I paid €10 on the 31st Jan, 2.50 each for Nasdaq, FTSE, Xetra and NYSE fees.

06-02-2021 01:00PM

Bob Harris wrote: »

In DeGiro check all the transactions on you a/c to see if you've had any connectivity fees for the markets you trade on. I paid €10 on the 31st Jan, 2.50 each for Nasdaq, FTSE, Xetra and NYSE fees.

Thanks for that.

It seems the e5.75 was the connection fees over New Year.

It's strange that it wasn't evident I owed money from the portfolio page. The account info said that 5.75 was in a cash account which seemed to be connected to the MMF.

So that sorts that out.

I'm now confused though why my deposit that was executed was credited and debited out again to: "Flatex Cash Sweep Transfer" and not showing any record of it outside of that section.

Maybe that's just a timing issue with the weekend and it will show up in my balance next week so I wont worry about that for a few days.

frebel · 06-02-2021 05:57PM

timetogo1 wrote: »

I use them both.

As the previous poster said fractional shares are a benefit in T212. Other differences are

With T212 you can load up to €2000 from a cc fee free (after the first 2k there's a 0.7% fee). So the money can be in the T212 account immediately. Degiro do bank transfer only so it takes a day. Obviously using CC credit to fund an account is not smart but it works fine for me as I pay it off monthly.

Pies - T212 allow you to create pies. Kind of like a personal ETF. Here's an example of one I created copying the top 15 from the ARKK ETF www.trading212.com/pies/l7a3qYeULFOR6tKRWF4CAYs0md8Y . That means you can create a pie and just throw money into it. T212 will sort out the fractional purchases. I created that pie at the start of January as an experiment and put $200 into it and it's up 5% so I'm OK with that. I'll add some more money into it every so often. There's a bit of reading to do with rebalancing. You want to read up on that yourself. It's not too hard.

Yearly reports - The Degiro reports for tax are much more comprehensive. If you use T212 they won't give you a report for the first 11 months so you have to be good with your Excel skills to report to the taxman.

Leverage - Degiro allow you to leverage (with their higher level accounts). This is not a beginner feature but it's useful if you know what you're doing and ARE AWARE OF THE RISKS.

Degiro charge a small fee per transaction (about .50c) plus a small fee per year per exchange (about $2.5). T212 is free. This really doesn't make much difference to most people.

Trading 212 do CFDs. Do not touch these with a 10 foot bargepole. I've experimented with them using their virtual account and always ended up losing on the trades. I don't know enough about them to use them.

Degiro delay some updates on your share pricing info by 15 mins (e.g. on the Nasdaq). This can be a pain in the hole. I don't know if Trading 212 do. These days I use Excel to track my shares as that seems to update everything immediately when I hit the refresh button.

There's probably more but that's what I'm aware of.

Great summary!

Already on Degiro but some stocks I'm looking for are not there (penny stocks) ie CBBT Cerebain Biotech Corp
OTCMKTS: CBBT

Looking to open up a Trading 212 so if anyone wants to send me an invite link, I'll try hold off for mutual credit

martingriff · 06-02-2021 06:11PM

So I am a newbi so please be gentle. For the last few years I have been thinking in doing an investment longer term (5 to10 year). I think I can afford it now. So I have a couple of questions.

1. What is the minimum I much should invest at the start? I was thinking of €200 to €500

2. What do ye think of sites like etoro

3. What stocks would people think.

Bob Harris · 06-02-2021 06:19PM

martingriff wrote: »

So I am a newbi so please be gentle. For the last few years I have been thinking in doing an investment longer term (5 to10 year). I think I can afford it now. So I have a couple of questions.

1. What is the minimum I much should invest at the start? I was thinking of €200 to €500

2. What do ye think of sites like etoro

3. What stocks would people think.

1. How much can you afford?

2. Etoro is like a social media app, I'm not a fan. I've no issues with DeGiro.

3. What is your risk profile?
Do you prefer growth stocks i.e. relatively new businesses/sectors - EVs, cloudspace, renewables or value stocks i.e. established businesses that are under-valued but have a good outlook? Intel, J&J etc

Until you have a clear idea of the above it's hard for you to know what to do and even harder for someone to advise.

Don't think you can afford it - be sure you can.

martingriff · 06-02-2021 07:01PM

Bob Harris wrote: »

1. How much can you afford?

2. Etoro is like a social media app, I'm not a fan. I've no issues with DeGiro.

3. What is your risk profile?
Do you prefer growth stocks i.e. relatively new businesses/sectors - EVs, cloudspace, renewables or value stocks i.e. established businesses that are under-valued but have a good outlook? Intel, J&J etc

Until you have a clear idea of the above it's hard for you to know what to do and even harder for someone to advise.

Don't think you can afford it - be sure you can.

Thanks for the reply

1. Now I can go €500 but increase to €1000 by years end

2. I will look at Degiro

3. I would like to do new business mostly renewable and EVs and 1 established

redlead · 06-02-2021 08:03PM

Does anyone know what the logic is behind treating ETFs as income for tax purposes? Having to artificially realise your gains after 8 years seems bonkers too. I've been trying to think of a reason and just can't come up with anything. The Irish tax regime seems very anti investor but gambling is tax free. Its a shame there isn't a stronger lobby here.

chabsey · 06-02-2021 08:25PM

martingriff wrote: »

Thanks for the reply

1. Now I can go €500 but increase to €1000 by years end

2. I will look at Degiro

3. I would like to do new business mostly renewable and EVs and 1 established

You'll be lucky to get a De Giro account if my experience is anything to go by. I'm stuck in some kind of verification loop whereby the app is insisting on asking me for an NFC national identity card despite me providing passport details. Very frustrating.

BlakeS94 · 06-02-2021 08:28PM

frebel wrote: »

Great summary!

Already on Degiro but some stocks I'm looking for are not there (penny stocks) ie CBBT Cerebain Biotech Corp
OTCMKTS: CBBT

Looking to open up a Trading 212 so if anyone wants to send me an invite link, I'll try hold off for mutual credit

I could send you a T212 link, been using it since May I find it quite good especially the free trading/no transaction fees

richie123 · 06-02-2021 08:31PM

On degiro I had to enable complex shares icon to access shares im interested in buying.
I'm assuming when it says complex it means higher risk/reward trades..and nothing to do with cfds or leveraged trades ? ( which I'm staying away from,
I'm only recently setup on degiro.

BlakeS94 · 06-02-2021 08:35PM

martingriff wrote: »

So I am a newbi so please be gentle. For the last few years I have been thinking in doing an investment longer term (5 to10 year). I think I can afford it now. So I have a couple of questions.

1. What is the minimum I much should invest at the start? I was thinking of €200 to €500

2. What do ye think of sites like etoro

3. What stocks would people think.

The experts say investing 10% of your income is acceptable, more if you so wish,

I use trading 212 so can't comment on others as I havent used them, but if you're not investing well into the thousands then it makes sense to not have to pay fees I.e Trading 212 and others who dont charge fees

I would stay clear of stocks unless you're an expert in what you're investing in and know the company inside out, otherwise its plain gambling, investing in ETFs buy and hold for a long time, easy. S&P 500, FTSE are good options by firms such as iShares and Vanguard. You can cover a whole lot of the world with a handful of ETFs giving you protection against future market crashes

Shedite27 · 06-02-2021 08:57PM

redlead wrote: »

Does anyone know what the logic is behind treating ETFs as income for tax purposes? Having to artificially realise your gains after 8 years seems bonkers too. I've been trying to think of a reason and just can't come up with anything. The Irish tax regime seems very anti investor but gambling is tax free. Its a shame there isn't a stronger lobby here.

Came in in 2008 when the country was dying for cash. Minister for Finance at the time realised there was a load of money in ETF's that would be paying CGT eventually anyway, by introducing it at the time it got a load of tax out of those immediately when the country needed every penny.

Shedite27 · 06-02-2021 08:58PM

richie123 wrote: »

On degiro I had to enable complex shares icon to access shares im interested in buying.
I'm assuming when it says complex it means higher risk/reward trades..and nothing to do with cfds or leveraged trades ? ( which I'm staying away from,
I'm only recently setup on degiro.

Correct, they allow you blue chip shares by just signing up, any growth or alternative stocks needs a further 5 question test

Bob Harris · 06-02-2021 10:23PM

martingriff wrote: »

Thanks for the reply

1. Now I can go €500 but increase to €1000 by years end

2. I will look at Degiro

3. I would like to do new business mostly renewable and EVs and 1 established

If you're paying in monthly then you can dollar cost average into the shares you chose which is basically adding to your positions in a systematic regular way.
It can mean a lot of buys so if you choose a broker with free trading all the better. Pick the right companies and stick with it for 8/10 years and it'll pay off.

Renewables and EVs have seen major growth recently are a due a correction that I think will arrive his year so if you do start now by dollar cost averaging over time you'll iron out any big swings if your timing is not ideal.

Shedite27 has plenty of knowledge of growth/disruptive stocks performing well that he's holding long term so no harm to have a look for his posts.

LawBoy2018 · 06-02-2021 10:25PM

Bob Harris wrote: »

If you're paying in monthly then you can dollar cost average into the shares you chose which is basically adding to your positions in a systematic regular way.
It can mean a lot of buys so if you choose a broker with free trading all the better. Pick the right companies and stick with it for 8/10 years and it'll pay off.

Renewables and EVs have seen major growth recently are a due a correction that I think will arrive his year so if you do start now by dollar cost averaging over time you'll iron out any big swings if your timing is not ideal.

Shedite27 has plenty of knowledge of growth/disruptive stocks performing well that he's holding long term so no harm to have a look for his posts.

Any growth shares on your radar atm?

Bob Harris · 06-02-2021 10:35PM

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Any growth shares on your radar atm?

Recently I added Fiserv - FISV
Also Regeneron is good value, Beyond Meat should kick on again after a recent pull back. Also Nokia and nothing to do with the WSB pumps has a lot of upside potential.

I'd also be keeping an eye on oil companies. The price of oil is on the way up and the likes of Suncor will do very well out of it.

LawBoy2018 · 06-02-2021 11:02PM

Bob Harris wrote: »

Recently I added Fiserv - FISV
Also Regeneron is good value, Beyond Meat should kick on again after a recent pull back. Also Nokia and nothing to do with the WSB pumps has a lot of upside potential.

I'd also be keeping an eye on oil companies. The price of oil is on the way up and the likes of Suncor will do very well out of it.

Wow, random! It's v interesting to hear other people's thoughts/predictions.

I bought 40 ABBV shares recently so that will probably keep me ticking over for a while re biopharm/biotech.

Bob Harris · 06-02-2021 11:03PM

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Wow, random! It's v interesting to hear other people's thoughts/predictions.

I bought 40 ABBV shares recently so that will probably keep me ticking over for a while re biopharm/biotech.

Well they say diversification is key!

Learpholl · 06-02-2021 11:48PM

BlakeS94 wrote: »

I would stay clear of stocks unless you're an expert in what you're investing in and know the company inside out, otherwise its plain gambling, investing in ETFs buy and hold for a long time, easy. S&P 500, FTSE are good options by firms such as iShares and Vanguard. You can cover a whole lot of the world with a handful of ETFs giving you protection against future market crashes

I'm completely new to all this, just got my Degiro account sorted and only have shares in the company I work for but have been reading a lot recently and the advice above seems consistent with all of the advice I've read in a couple of different books and online. However, they tend not to be Irish focused and I've read a few posts on here talking down ETFs and things like the S&P500 index and assume it's due to posts like this one:

redlead wrote: »

Does anyone know what the logic is behind treating ETFs as income for tax purposes? Having to artificially realise your gains after 8 years seems bonkers too. I've been trying to think of a reason and just can't come up with anything. The Irish tax regime seems very anti investor but gambling is tax free. Its a shame there isn't a stronger lobby here.

Could anyone explain in more detail the problem with investing in things like a Vanguard S&P500 index from here in Ireland when it's a long term passive investment I'm looking for? Not sure what "artificially realise your gains after 8 years" means really?

redlead · 06-02-2021 11:53PM

Learpholl wrote: »

Could anyone explain in more detail the problem with investing in things like a Vanguard S&P500 index from here in Ireland when it's a long term passive investment I'm looking for? Not sure what "artificially realise your gains after 8 years" means really?

It means that after 8 years, even though you don't sell anything, you basically artificially realise your investment and pay the tax on your profits which for some strange reason is the income tax rate of 41 percent and not CGT. This basically removes the compounding impact of your investment as you'll have to likely sell a chunk to pay the tax.

Learpholl · 07-02-2021 02:35AM

redlead wrote: »

It means that after 8 years, even though you don't sell anything, you basically artificially realise your investment and pay the tax on your profits which for some strange reason is the income tax rate of 41 percent and not CGT. This basically removes the compounding impact of your investment as you'll have to likely sell a chunk to pay the tax.

Presume this makes them difficult to put a certain amount in consistently too as the admin after year 8 would be a nightmare if you've purchased each month, right? And every year after you'd have the same issue? After year 8, do you continue to pay income tax every 8th year or just when you sell after that? Does the 1270 allowance still apply with ETFs? Are there any other similar passive invest & forget type options available in Ireland that are more tax friendly?

Beginning to Invest - All questions go here please

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