Skirting - To foam or not to foam

fret_wimp2 · 10-01-2021 02:55PM

Dont glue if its to drywall/plsaterboard. Removing our skirting was very tough and took lumps out of the plasterboard. a few wire nails at regular intervals would have been invisible, made removing them easy and would have left no damage.

Whatever glue was used on ours was very strong and i assume it would take plaster off a brick wall too.

StephenS147 · 10-01-2021 03:30PM

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Dont glue if its to drywall/plsaterboard. Removing our skirting was very tough and took lumps out of the plasterboard. a few wire nails at regular intervals would have been invisible, made removing them easy and would have left no damage.

Whatever glue was used on ours was very strong and i assume it would take plaster off a brick wall too.

I'll post back tomorrow after I test trying to cut the foam using my Olfa knife and blade. Those things can cut through anything. Sharpest blades known to man made from Japanese black steel.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000LE3V74

oleras · 10-01-2021 04:18PM

Im all for doing a job as well as you can, but at the end of the day, this is skirting board...unless the dog is very critical, he will be the closest to inspect it...lash it on with steel nails.:D Inside corners ?...that what vases are for.

StephenS147 · 10-01-2021 04:24PM

oleras wrote: »

Im all for doing a job as well as you can, but at the end of the day, this is skirting board...unless the dog is very critical, he will be the closest to inspect it...lash it on with steel nails.:D Inside corners ?...that what vases are for.

I get what you're saying, just looking to see if this foam method works.

Our dog can sniff out a lot of things but a bad skirting job is not one of them.

Spanishpoint · 11-01-2021 12:27AM

Screws worked for me very good during the last 5 years

pitterbrayn · 12-01-2021 05:08PM

You can screw and fill them for sure.
Best way of your walls are bendy

StephenS147 · 12-01-2021 06:21PM

I didn't get those two pieces separated, even with the knife.

Oh well. It'll be many years before this skirting comes off again.

I cut this piece to size and found where the low spots were and marked where each fixing was needed. I found by using equal distances on our wall (which is not flat) then there were more gaps. Then pre drilled the skirting with a 6mm bit and lined it up to the wall on 2mm plastic spacers. Drilled 6mm hole for the red rawl plugs to depth, inserted the plugs and then dampened the skirting and the base of wall with a light must of water. Laid one continuous wavy bead of foam and pressed against wall. Then using offcuts of ply with a 6mm hole and 70mm screws, screwed the skirting back. Let sit over night (just to be safe) and removed the screws, countersunk and used 4.2x45mm screws and fixed.

If your walls are true then leaving the foam with the blocks for an hour would be okay. You also wouldn't need to put any screws back in so all you'd need to do is fill in the drill holes and not a countersunk one.

The skirting did hold perfectly but I added the screws back in just in case as our walls take a few detours. I'm very happy with foam and will be using it for the rest. Don't bother using it without a foam gun otherwise you'll get foam everywhere.

Two great videos on skirting from Robin Clevett (again). He's only fitting to studs and Thermalite blocks here but great to see how he tackles things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQZKc8PLV2A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEN1dyx5FU

Here's some pics and a pic of the tools I used.

GreeBo · 13-01-2021 09:53AM

^
Maybe I'm being dim, but does screwing it in not defeat the point of using the foam?

Also presume that you arent doing the other walls? (Since you have used straight cuts at the ends...)

I would throw in an odd screw (like maybe 3 in the length you used) and caulk, of all the things in your house to need strength, skirting must be right at the bottom, its sitting on the floor and will be caulked/painted in.

StephenS147 · 13-01-2021 11:50AM

GreeBo wrote: »

^
Maybe I'm being dim, but does screwing it in not defeat the point of using the foam?

Also presume that you arent doing the other walls? (Since you have used straight cuts at the ends...)

I would throw in an odd screw (like maybe 3 in the length you used) and caulk, of all the things in your house to need strength, skirting must be right at the bottom, its sitting on the floor and will be caulked/painted in.

It'll just help. Bit of foam and dovetail nailing would be a great solution for studs and lightweight block. But in this case, masonry and a bendy wall I went with sticking and screws.

The skirting is getting scribed. Mitres aren't meant to be used for inside corners. They can if your walls perfect.

Scribed corner. Skirting not fixed yet.

Skirting does need strength in some cases. Buildings move and are not straight esp older ones. Here's a job a builder of 30 years experience did. Grab adhesive which has failed and nails into blockwork (which have snapped). One of many jobs I need to tackle.

oleras · 13-01-2021 02:26PM

Bit of mastic that will be grand...:D

i do admire your work ethic though, fair play.

GreeBo · 13-01-2021 02:39PM

StephenS147 wrote: »

It'll just help. Bit of foam and dovetail nailing would be a great solution for studs and lightweight block. But in this case, masonry and a bendy wall I went with sticking and screws.

The skirting is getting scribed. Mitres aren't meant to be used for inside corners. They can if your walls perfect.

Skirting does need strength in some cases. Buildings move and are not straight esp older ones. Here's a job a builder of 30 years experience did. Grab adhesive which has failed and nails into blockwork (which have snapped). One of many jobs I need to tackle.

Foam works when you have large surface areas involved, I dont see it working to fix a stud to a wall. Its also very binary, its either fixed or not, whereas nails/screws are more linear, it could be loose.
I'd argue that this is not an example of strength required, looks more like the skirting was incorrectly sized or may have expanded.
If you had fixed that solidly in place, something was going to pop somewhere.

If the wall isn't straight then you have compromise somewhere, I'd rather it between the wall and skirting with caulk than the wall and floor with skewed tiles/carpet/timber against it.

StephenS147 · 13-01-2021 02:45PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Foam works when you have large surface areas involved, I dont see it working to fix a stud to a wall. Its also very binary, its either fixed or not, whereas nails/screws are more linear, it could be loose.
I'd argue that this is not an example of strength required, looks more like the skirting was incorrectly sized or may have expanded.
If you had fixed that solidly in place, something was going to pop somewhere.

If the wall isn't straight then you have compromise somewhere, I'd rather it between the wall and skirting with caulk than the wall and floor with skewed tiles/carpet/timber against it.

In my test it worked extremely well. The trick it seems is to dampen each surface as per foam instructions.

Whatever nails he used they rusted and snapped and the grab adhesive failed. There's also a gap at the end towards the door so the skirting is sized fine.

That's the rear wall which is the worst. It's not noticeable until you stand in line with it. But there'll be furniture along it so no biggie.

GreeBo · 13-01-2021 03:45PM

StephenS147 wrote: »

In my test it worked extremely well. The trick it seems is to dampen each surface as per foam instructions.

To be fair, you tested sticking two small pieces of ply face on to each other, velcro would work just as well in that scenario.

Try foaming one of those pieces on end and see if it works out as well. I strongly suspect that it wont.

StephenS147 wrote: »

Whatever nails he used they rusted and snapped and the grab adhesive failed. There's also a gap at the end towards the door so the skirting is sized fine.

But if there is that much movement then anything is going to snap/pop/release, or the timber itself will crack. Something has to give if the wall and the skirting are expanding/moving independently.

StephenS147 · 13-01-2021 04:09PM

GreeBo wrote: »

To be fair, you tested sticking two small pieces of ply face on to each other, velcro would work just as well in that scenario.

Try foaming one of those pieces on end and see if it works out as well. I strongly suspect that it wont.

But if there is that much movement then anything is going to snap/pop/release, or the timber itself will crack. Something has to give if the wall and the skirting are expanding/moving independently.

End to end? Why would I do that now when that's not what I'm doing.

It's a 1.5m run of skirting. Too short to result in what happened. Like I said the nails rusted and snapped and grab adhesive failed.

13-01-2021 04:33PM

Has the word "foam" come into use from some trademarked product (I dont think so), I wasn't going to say anything but it's getting repeated.
I see Soudal does do a foam that has adhesive properties, but Ive never described it or heard it used as such, typically Id have said expanding foam is used as a gap filler, not convinced this is exactly the use its for and Id have said in this case, use either an adhesive or a nail/screw, that looks like a fairly straight edge, doesn't appear to need both imo.
For the image where there was a gap over the top of the skirting, Id suggest some decorators caulk for gaps there rather than forcing a skirting to conform to the exact shape of any wall where it isn't perfectly flat.
Caulk can be painted, compared to silicons and looks better, but still remains somewhat flexible, compared to fillers.

I'm never that neat and tidy working, although I do recommend covering flooring/protecting it from tools and also masking to get neat clean edges.

StephenS147 · 13-01-2021 05:18PM

1874 wrote: »

I see Soudal does do a foam that has adhesive properties, but Ive never described it or heard it used as such, typically Id have said expanding foam is used as a gap filler, not convinced this is exactly the use its for and Id have said in this case, use either an adhesive or a nail/screw,

It's pretty good. I've mentioned before it can be used for dot and dab. So it holds pretty well.

1874 wrote: »

that looks like a fairly straight edge, doesn't appear to need both imo.

I've only screwed at the lowest spots and didn't screw at every low spot their was. My intention is to caulk to top and paint.

1874 wrote: »

compared to silicons and looks better, but still remains somewhat flexible, compared to fillers.

I would never use a silicon. Some caulk with a profile tool.

1874 wrote: »

I'm never that neat and tidy working, although I do recommend covering flooring/protecting it from tools and also masking to get neat clean edges.

It's just a paint drop sheet but I'm carefuling.

GreeBo · 13-01-2021 05:23PM

StephenS147 wrote: »

End to end? Why would I do that now when that's not what I'm doing.

I didnt say end to end, I said one piece on end, to simulate using it to attach a stud as you suggested.

It's a 1.5m run of skirting. Too short to result in what happened. Like I said the nails rusted and snapped and grab adhesive failed.

Must have been under fierce pressure to snap nails, even if they were rusty?
If the adhesive failed it was either left to skin over or the substrate was wet I would guess?

StephenS147 · 13-01-2021 05:38PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I didnt say end to end, I said one piece on end, to simulate using it to attach a stud as you suggested.

Sorry not sure what you mean. On end? Stud or skirting?

GreeBo wrote: »

Must have been under fierce pressure to snap nails, even if they were rusty?
If the adhesive failed it was either left to skin over or the substrate was wet I would guess?

A piece of the same oak skirting in the kitchen done this and that wall was relatively straight. Over time a gap appeared and dirt got in behind most nails broke, adhesive gave in and it got worse and worse until I fixed it with rawl plugs grab adhesive and screws (hasn't budged in 2 years since). Not letting the adhesive skin over is a major factor I suppose which is why I was looking for an alternative that has a longer working time.

GreeBo · 13-01-2021 05:42PM

1874 wrote: »

Has the word "foam" come into use from some trademarked product (I dont think so), I wasn't going to say anything but it's getting repeated.
I see Soudal does do a foam that has adhesive properties, but Ive never described it or heard it used as such, typically Id have said expanding foam is used as a gap filler

There are certainly various types of foam, gap fillers, low expansion adhesives and everything in between.

I would only ever use foam in the scenario where the plasterboarder was scabby and I wanted some level of support behind the bottom of the skirting coupled with closing up the wind tunnel than can be there.

It wouldnt be structural but would help prevent the skirting from levering against the fixings if/when it got bashed by a hoover for example. Its easier than trying to fix bits of timber or plasterboard offcuts onto the studs.

Sheathing is often fixed with foam these days, but its low/zero expansion and more akin to a spray adhesive imo, its not trying to fill any gaps.

TimHorton · 15-01-2021 09:40PM

https://youtu.be/WPR08TlSLBI?t=102 Skillbuilder video using expanding foam !

StephenS147 · 15-01-2021 09:51PM

TimHorton wrote: »

https://youtu.be/WPR08TlSLBI?t=102 Skillbuilder video using expanding foam !

Haha, niiiice. Love SB. James is a great builder.

Seen the video notification but watching Ronnie and John higgins.

the_pen_turner · 15-01-2021 10:30PM

you would know roger is a plumber,
james :lets cut a little off
roger: just hit it with a hammer

that amount of screws is excesive.
not sure about the tip with the masking tape. i would like to see that tested when they are caulked in . i think you would see it a little bit.

StephenS147 · 16-01-2021 01:44AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

you would know roger is a plumber,
james :lets cut a little off
roger: just hit it with a hammer

that amount of screws is excesive.
not sure about the tip with the masking tape. i would like to see that tested when they are caulked in . i think you would see it a little bit.

Just watched it. It didn't show much of the foaming process and whether he dampened each surface.

Roger's gas.

Instead of the tape I put down 1mm packers and laid the skirting on that and fitted and removed them after. That was to allow movement for the floor and ease of cutting in when painting. I done my scribes with my trusty Spear and Jackson hand saw and Robins scribe template technique and a bit of sandpaper wrapped around a drill bit to tweak them. A Leica Disto D2 made light work of measuring the runs. It was spot on every time. Feck using a tape measure, especially when working on my own.

StephenS147 · 29-01-2021 02:35PM

Here's the finished result. Happy as Larry with how the skirting turned out.

Room was done there last weekend so thought I'd follow up.

When painting I spot primed with Zinsser 123 and followed by two coats of water based brilliant white by colourtrend but used a paint conditioner called Owatrol 1 Litre Floetrol Waterborne Paint Conditioner https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00CITLEGK which makes the paint behave like an emulsion. Truly amazing stuff.

Lumen · 29-01-2021 02:37PM

Impressive "yo dawg" TV setup. What's the upper one for?

StephenS147 · 29-01-2021 02:43PM

Thanks.

It's a secondary monitor. Not sure I will really need it. But yet to fully test it out. It probably will be grand when I'm using AutoCAD for work when things pick up with pdf markups on the other. I'll see how my neck gets on!

TimHorton · 29-01-2021 02:51PM

Looks Great , Where did you get the Skirting and what profile is it ?

StephenS147 · 29-01-2021 03:22PM

TimHorton wrote: »

Looks Great , Where did you get the Skirting and what profile is it ?

Thanks.

I got mine from a local builder supplier. https://www.chadwicks.ie/

The profile is Chamfered & Rounded Skirting. I went with the 94x18mm and 69x18mm for the architrave.

https://mybuildingsupplies.ie/product/94x18x5.4-m-half-splayed-mdf-skirt-w-pr?gclid=CjwKCAiAgc-ABhA7EiwAjev-j7TONORuRhnk7JkHOgCEZUAo9qfG7XKPDLnVRU9tMs209Q6Lip188RoCOdgQAvD_BwE

Skirting - To foam or not to foam

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