The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

13-01-2021 04:20PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Irish State signed the GFA jh79.

Republicans signed up to it. Denial of self determination has been an issue since partition...hadn't you noticed?

It was the best they could do i supose. The IRA's surrender while still leaving NI in full control of the British was a massive failure for them.

James Brown · 13-01-2021 04:24PM

jh79 wrote: »

It was the best they could do i supose. The IRA's surrender while still leaving NI in full control of the British was a massive failure for them.

So they are criminal for fighting and failures for signing up to peace? Is that why FG/Lab hired a dissident as a Senator? You'd rather the 'RA stuck to their guns?
Very poor FG-esque take on a peace.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 04:24PM

jh79 wrote: »

It was the best they could do i supose. The IRA's surrender while still leaving NI in full control of the British was a massive failure for them.

You may have gotten to live happily ever after had SF's support believed that too. Seems to me they massively rewarded the IRA and SF for what was achieved. So much so they are now the biggest political party on this island.

'Surrender' indeed!

13-01-2021 04:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You may have gotten to live happily ever after had SF's support believed that too. Seems to me they massively rewarded the IRA and SF for what was achieved. So much so they are now the biggest political party on this island.

'Surrender' indeed!

You're deluded if you think the recent surge in SF's popularity has anything to do with NI and unification.

When SF fail to deliver on their populist policies they'll be out the door in no time.
Think about how long is needed to prepare for an UI and what will happen when they fail to deliver free houses for all, increased welfare and PS pay etc in a post COVID economy.

The status quo is our short to medium term future.

13-01-2021 04:52PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You may have gotten to live happily ever after had SF's support believed that too. Seems to me they massively rewarded the IRA and SF for what was achieved. So much so they are now the biggest political party on this island.

'Surrender' indeed!

Francie, the GFA had no effect on me. Apart from the odd bomb scare in the local nightclub I was not touched by domestic terrorism. My vote for yes was so others wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of so called Republicans and Loyalists involved in terrorism and criminality.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 05:00PM

jh79 wrote: »

You're deluded if you think the recent surge in SF's popularity has anything to do with NI and unification.

When SF fail to deliver on their populist policies they'll be out the door in no time.
Think about how long is needed to prepare for an UI and what will happen when they fail to deliver free houses for all, increased welfare and PS pay etc in a post COVID economy.

The status quo is our short to medium term future.

The 'recent' surge? SF surged directly after the GFA after steadily growing support through the 80'-90's.

The people most affected massively rewarded them, choosing them to represent them. Simple as. They have gone on to build the biggest political party on this island.

Where have they promised free housing for all BTW?

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 05:02PM

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, the GFA had no effect on me. Apart from the odd bomb scare in the local nightclub I was not touched by domestic terrorism. My vote for yes was so others wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of so called Republicans and Loyalists involved in terrorism and criminality.

It clearly did have effect if you see it and what happened after it as a 'surrender'.

Why the need to taunt like that I don't know. But it is fairly pathetic stuff.

13-01-2021 05:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'recent' surge? SF surged directly after the GFA after steadily growing support through the 80'-90's.

The people most affected massively rewarded them, choosing them to represent them. Simple as. They have gone on to build the biggest political party on this island.

Where have they promised free housing for all BTW?

The constitutional right to housing idea they stole from PBP.

The recent surge was in the Republic and if it was as steady and predictable as you suggest surely they would of ran the right number of candidates in the GE?

13-01-2021 05:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It clearly did have effect if you see it and what happened after it as a 'surrender'.

Why the need to taunt like that I don't know. But it is fairly pathetic stuff.

Not a taunt a fair reflection of what happened considering the aims of the IRA. Not my heroes so no need for me to sugar coat it.

jm08 · 13-01-2021 05:18PM

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, the GFA had no effect on me. Apart from the odd bomb scare in the local nightclub I was not touched by domestic terrorism. My vote for yes was so others wouldn't have to suffer at the hands of so called Republicans and Loyalists involved in terrorism and criminality.

Fair play to you admitting people getting killed didn't bother you. I think you would be fairly unusual if you were not affected by what happened in Warrington or the murder of the Quinn boys.

13-01-2021 05:24PM

jm08 wrote: »

Fair play to you admitting people getting killed didn't bother you. I think you would be fairly unusual if you were not affected by what happened in Warrington or the murder of the Quinn boys.

If people getting killed didn't bother me I'd be a SF voter and IRA supporter.

James Brown · 13-01-2021 05:33PM

jh79 wrote: »

If people getting killed didn't bother me I'd be a SF voter and IRA supporter.

I thought the IRA surrendered?

I support the IRA signing up to peace you don't seem to.

13-01-2021 05:41PM

Bowie wrote: »

I thought the IRA surrendered?

I support the IRA signing up to peace you don't seem to.

I'm glad they surrendered / acquiesced (whichever you prefer). Doesn't change the fact that they did surrender / acquiesce.

They went from "Brits Out" to "Brits Out but only if the majority agree and it is amenable to the British".

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 05:53PM

jh79 wrote: »

I'm glad they surrendered / acquiesced (whichever you prefer). Doesn't change the fact that they did surrender / acquiesce.

They went from "Brits Out" to "Brits Out but only if the majority agree and it is amenable to the British".

While you are looking for another group who negotiated an agreement while fully armed, could you also look for another group going into battle who who said 'well, maybe if we get x that'll do for now'?

You will find very few in either category.

I am thankful that the IRA were mature enough to realise that a stalemate was reached and allowed themselves to be led by two politicians to an agreement.

13-01-2021 05:56PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

While you are looking for another group who negotiated an agreement while fully armed, could you also look for another group going into battle who who said well, 'maybe if we get x that'll do for now'?

You will find very few in either category.

I am thankful that the IRA were mature enough to realise that a stalemate was reached and allowed themselves to be led by two politicians to an agreement.

How did you come to the conclusion that it was a stalemate? The IRA are gone yet the British still have ultimate control over NI.

McMurphy · 13-01-2021 05:59PM

jh79 wrote: »

How did you come to the conclusion that it was a stalemate? The IRA are gone yet the British still have ultimate control over NI.

The IRA surrendered and are gone?

But Leo and Jennifer and Josepha and co have been telling us for what seems like an eternity, that they're still here and are controlling the Shinners. .

You're straying from the script jh.

a very cool kid · 13-01-2021 06:03PM

McMurphy wrote: »

The IRA surrendered and are gone?

But Leo and Jennifer and Josepha and co have been telling us for what seems like an eternity, that they're still here and are controlling the Shinners. .

You're straying from the script jh.

So are you saying the IRA are no longer around? Gone completely?

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 06:06PM

jh79 wrote: »

How did you come to the conclusion that it was a stalemate? The IRA are gone yet the British still have ultimate control over NI.

No, jh79, this is not how it works.
Can you point to another group anywhere who 'surrendered' while still fully armed?

Then you can ask new questions.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 06:07PM

a very cool kid wrote: »

So are you saying the IRA are no longer around? Gone completely?

jh79 said that in the post he was replying to.

13-01-2021 06:07PM

McMurphy wrote: »

The IRA surrendered and are gone?

But Leo and Jennifer and Josepha and co have been telling us for what seems like an eternity, that they're still here and are controlling the Shinners. .

You're straying from the script jh.

I suspect they control SF but it is only speculation on my part.

They are a strange bunch. Imagine if you could go back in time and tell the "volunteers" that the likes of Gerry Kelly would end up working for the British or as ye might say "the Crown". The Queens schilling beat the IRA in the end.

McMurphy · 13-01-2021 06:11PM

a very cool kid wrote: »

So are you saying the IRA are no longer around? Gone completely?

Can you read the post I quoted and questioned please, it's not a hard exchange to follow tbh.

McMurphy · 13-01-2021 06:19PM

jh79 wrote: »

I suspect they control SF but it is only speculation on my part.

They are a strange bunch. Imagine if you could go back in time and tell the "volunteers" that the likes of Gerry Kelly would end up working for the British or as ye might say "the Crown". The Queens schilling beat the IRA in the end.

I'd say it's no stranger than speculating an organisation is gone/surrendered, but simultaneously not gone at all if they're still controlling someone or something? How does that trick work night I ask?

13-01-2021 06:25PM

McMurphy wrote: »

I'd say it's no stranger than speculating an organisation is gone/surrendered, but simultaneously not gone at all if they're still controlling someone or something? How does that trick work night I ask?

To save answering multiple posters when i say surrender i mean it in the sense that they gave up not in any formal military context.

To answer your question, it's an army that surrendered their weapons but probably run SF. They gave up as an army. They lost the military part of their conflict.

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 06:26PM

jh79 wrote: »

I suspect they control SF but it is only speculation on my part.

They are a strange bunch. Imagine if you could go back in time and tell the "volunteers" that the likes of Gerry Kelly would end up working for the British or as ye might say "the Crown". The Queens schilling beat the IRA in the end.

Can we not also say that of all political parties? Imagine telling James Craig that a Unionist would be holding the arm of an IRA man aloft as his equal, celebrating sharing power?
Imagine telling Michael Collins that FG would be inviting a belligerent Unionist with a penchant for demeaning Irish culture to address their Ard Fheis?

Strange bunches?

FrancieBrady · 13-01-2021 06:29PM

jh79 wrote: »

To save answering multiple posters when i say surrender i mean it in the sense that they gave up not in any formal military context.

To answer your question, it's an army that surrendered their weapons but probably run SF. They gave up as an army. They lost the military part of their conflict.

They did exactly what they said they would do, 'end the military campaign and enter exclusively democratic politics to achieve their aims' - British withdrawal and Irish Unity.

Still a very live project IMO as everytime I open a newspaper or the internet somebody new is talking about a UI.

James Brown · 13-01-2021 06:29PM

jh79 wrote: »

I'm glad they surrendered / acquiesced (whichever you prefer). Doesn't change the fact that they did surrender / acquiesce.

They went from "Brits Out" to "Brits Out but only if the majority agree and it is amenable to the British".

They should be commended in my view. You seem disappointed.

I suppose many former IRA now in politics and accepted by the British government as such is a failure on their part? Seems silly to me.

James Brown · 13-01-2021 06:31PM

a very cool kid wrote: »

So are you saying the IRA are no longer around? Gone completely?

They didn't disappear. Many are in Sinn Fein. You didn't know this?

13-01-2021 06:38PM

Bowie wrote: »

They should be commended in my view. You seem disappointed.

I suppose many former IRA now in politics and accepted by the British government as such is a failure on their part? Seems silly to me.

I'm not disappointed just don't see why i need to sugar coat it for insecure republicans who don't want to be reminded they now work for the British.

McMurphy · 13-01-2021 06:40PM

jh79 wrote: »

To save answering multiple posters when i say surrender i mean it in the sense that they gave up not in any formal military context.

So during the previous years leading up to the GFA being signed, and all sides (including Irish and British) urging not just the provisionals, but all paramilitary groups in the conflict to lay down arms and pursue their aims through peaceful and political means, the IRA did what was asked of them, and did what they said they'd do?

Here we have:

"the Ra surrendered to the Brits and are gone" - poster jh79

"they're not really gone, they control Sinn Fein" - Also poster jh79, a few mins later (trying to get a rise and taunt)

You're a wum trying to yank chains jh, you can't have it every which way you messing rascal.

James Brown · 13-01-2021 07:02PM

jh79 wrote: »

I'm not disappointed just don't see why i need to sugar coat it for insecure republicans who don't want to be reminded they now work for the British.

My apologies. I didn't realise that's the point of your comments. I thought we were discussing the politics of SF and any links to the IRA. Had I known you merely wanted to take a few digs at the 'RA I would have left you to it. No skin off my nose. Enjoy.

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

Comments