Upgrading to Sky+ question...

Ludo · 06-10-2003 02:28PM #1

I am thinking of getting a Sky+ box in as they look good...however I have a question about it.
I got in Sky about three and a half years ago and so didnt need to get the thing connected up to a telephone.
If I was to get in Sky+ now do Sky insist on this being connected to a phone line?

Just wondering if anyone would know about this as there is no phone point anywhere near the tv and I am not getting the thing in if it means running a wire in a visible location.

Would doing a proper "behind the wall" phone line be classed as part of the standard installation for Sky+ as it would probably be more work than just changing the boxes and the LNB thingy (thats called a technical term I believe).

ShaneOC · 06-10-2003 02:32PM

They will probably request a phone connection. However ring and ask, see what they say. If they say you don't need one make sure you get the persons name.

Putting the cable behind the wall is definately not part of a standard install.

Tony · 06-10-2003 02:45PM

Originally posted by Ludo

Would doing a proper "behind the wall" phone line be classed as part of the standard installation for Sky+ as it would probably be more work than just changing the boxes and the LNB thingy (thats called a technical term I believe).

No it would not, getting it behind the wall means getting in a plasterer most likely

Ludo · 06-10-2003 03:03PM

OK...scenario: TV in corner of room farthest from door...door leads into hall (also no phone line), along and then across the hall is door to kitchen where the phone line is again other side of room.

So the standard Sky installation is to run a phone wire along your floor of the tv room, along the hall and then across the kitchen to the nearest phone point?

If the room happens to have a wooden floor (which mine does) then it has to be tacked to the skirting board or something as you cant even hide it under carpet?

Wouldnt that look just great with a stoopid phone line running all over the downstairs just to keep sky happy. Of course I would be plugging the damn thing out anyway as soon as the installer left so I wonder would he just run a wire which I could easily remove after he left without any damage being caused to walls etc etc.
The wife would murder me if there was any damage/visible wires around because of this. Must give a few installers a call and suss them out.

Otherwise that ends my interest in Sky+ I think for now.

Tony · 06-10-2003 04:14PM

Sky say that sky +will cease to work without permanent connection. I doubt you will get any installer to do this for you as you seem to want to make an omlette without breaking eggs.

Originally posted by Ludo
OK...scenario: TV in corner of room farthest from door...door leads into hall (also no phone line), along and then across the hall is door to kitchen where the phone line is again other side of room.

So the standard Sky installation is to run a phone wire along your floor of the tv room, along the hall and then across the kitchen to the nearest phone point?

If the room happens to have a wooden floor (which mine does) then it has to be tacked to the skirting board or something as you cant even hide it under carpet?

Wouldnt that look just great with a stoopid phone line running all over the downstairs just to keep sky happy. Of course I would be plugging the damn thing out anyway as soon as the installer left so I wonder would he just run a wire which I could easily remove after he left without any damage being caused to walls etc etc.
The wife would murder me if there was any damage/visible wires around because of this. Must give a few installers a call and suss them out.

Otherwise that ends my interest in Sky+ I think for now.

JDxtra · 06-10-2003 05:40PM

Sky say you should have your Sky+ box hooked up to the phoneline for 12 months. But I've had it since day 2 here in Ireland, and it's worked fine and was only ever hooked up to the phone line once to do a manual call back (to verify the serial number etc).

An installer will probably insist on a phone line connection though I guess.

[my box being broken at the moment is nothing to do with the lack of a phone line by the way!].

Owenw · 06-10-2003 07:34PM

Like you I've been thinking about getting the 3 yr old Sky boxes upgraded to Sky+. If it only needs to make one call to finish the installation I think I'd be inclined to run a temporary cheapo phone extension to the back of the TV before the installer comes out.

Actually, can you get the gear and do the install yourself?

AFAIK all you need are the Sky+ box, a quad LNB, 2 satellite grade coaxial cables and a few F connectors and a telephone line. Quick call to Sky to "marry" the card and box and bing bang bosh - job's done!

Does it use the same viewing card as the regular Sky digibox?
Can the single LNB be changed on the normal mini-dish?

Have I overlooked anything?

Tony · 06-10-2003 09:35PM

Originally posted by Owenw

Actually, can you get the gear and do the install yourself?

Yes you can as all you need do is replace existing LNB on Minidish with quad which comes with box . Retailers are not overly worried about phone connection as there is no subsidy to be claimed back from sky.

Tony

Owenw · 07-10-2003 10:11AM

Originally posted by Tony
Yes you can as all you need do is replace existing LNB on Minidish with quad which comes with box . Retailers are not overly worried about phone connection as there is no subsidy to be claimed back from sky.

Tony

Mmm that's surprising. I thought Sky were quite strict about installations? Maybe not in this neck of the woods

And would a "DIY" install affect the warranty if the box goes wrong?

I'd sooner pay the €70 than run the risk of having to fork out €300 for a replacement Sky+ box a few months down the line if it went wrong with no warranty option.

One final question about the phone connection - I've never used one in 3 years of having Sky Digital - what's the call rate?

I can imagine Sky using some premium rate 15** number to make a few extra shillings on the side from the gullible "Paddies"! :rolleyes:

EDIT: Tony I meant to ask - Where abouts are you based? I only had time for a quick look at your site - do you prefer online orders or can we pop round for advice and to buy items from your premises? Oh and can you do installations anywhere in the country?

My father likes to tinker around looking for foreign European channels and channels feeds etc. Do you sell motorised dishes, receivers etc for that sort of thing? Also will you be getting in some HDTV gear when Euro1080 begins transmitting in Jan 2004?

Thanks and sorry for the rambling post guys,
Owen

Tony · 07-10-2003 02:23PM

Originally posted by Owenw
Mmm that's surprising. I thought Sky were quite strict about installations? Maybe not in this neck of the woods
And would a "DIY" install affect the warranty if the box goes wrong?
One final question about the phone connection - I've never used one in 3 years of having Sky Digital - what's the call rate?
EDIT: Tony I meant to ask - Where abouts are you based? Oh and can you do installations anywhere in the country?
Owen

Sky are strict but retailers make up their own minds. Unless you misuse the box it will not affect warranty. Call rate is freephone AFAIK.

I do not have have a premises as the local rates prohibit this (7k a year) and its a choice either selling from the website or having a shop and adding 20% to prices (probably not selling anything) Any satellite specialists I know that did have shops have long since given them up. We can do installations pretty much anywhere subject to installer availability and expertise, unfortunately Cork and leitrim are a problem at the moment.

Tony

georgekildare · 07-10-2003 04:49PM

Does a Sky+ box need a phone line after it has been installed? If not, is there any problem with upgrading Sky to Sky+ for us "grey" subscribers that live abroad?

Tony · 07-10-2003 05:18PM

As I've already said Sky say it will not work without phoneline but as of yet I've heard of no reports that Sky + ceased to function if its not connected.

Originally posted by georgekildare
Does a Sky+ box need a phone line after it has been installed? If not, is there any problem with upgrading Sky to Sky+ for us "grey" subscribers that live abroad?

07-10-2003 06:16PM

Originally posted by georgekildare
Does a Sky+ box need a phone line after it has been installed? If not, is there any problem with upgrading Sky to Sky+ for us "grey" subscribers that live abroad?

I'll answer that if I've no problems after 12 months;)

If you look on it as investing in a sports channel and say a movie channel then you have nothing to lose as your sky plus is free.
If you run into problems, then just go back to the family pack

mm

eirman · 08-10-2003 11:40PM

Originally posted by Tony
As I've already said Sky say it will not work without phoneline but as of yet I've heard of no reports that Sky + ceased to function if its not connected.

This is propaganda propagated by sky. Sky+ will work without a phoneline otherwise they would insist on having a phoneline connected forever and not just 12 months.

Owenw · 10-10-2003 09:20AM

Thanks for the info Tony, it's been very helpful.

Sorry if this has been asked a millions times, but will a Sky box bought in the UK work with an Irish Sky card?

Alternatively, can UK cards be bought over here, so you can get the BBC channels on the EPG?

Or thirdly, will Sky activate a UK card & box even though they know you are an Irish resident?

I might be able to get my hands on one from a relative who is cancelling Sky and going for a FTA system in Jan which would be cheap way to replace my aging second box (also a UK version but getting the annoying warnings on Ch4 etc.).

BTW I've never had a phoneline plugged into either Sky box in 3 years of having them with no problems or hassle from Sky

Thanks,
Owen

Owenw · 11-10-2003 05:07PM

Hi Tony,

Just a quick question:

Will the quad LNB which comes with the Sky+ upgrade package replace the one on a regular (grey, oval) minidish?

The LNB on my dish is a 'Grundig Digital LNB' and is mounted to the dish with an angled plastic connector and a plastic screw holding it in place on the dish arm.

Hope this makes sense!

Thanks,
Owen

Ludo · 13-10-2003 09:28AM

Does anyone know how often these Sky+ boxes phone home?

I'm gonna go out now and get a long phone line which I can run from the tv to the nearest phone line. This will be plugged out once installer has left and everything is up and running. I assume I will eventually get a letter from Sky telling me to plug the box into the phone line again at some stage. Would anyone know for how long roughly I would have to leave the line plugged in for to get Sky off my back for another few months? Would one night be enough or would it take a few days? Anyoine know is there a rough time frame when they call home (i.e. during the night or anytime they like?)

ShaneOC · 13-10-2003 11:10AM

From what I can see the Sky+ box does not phone home any more than a normal digibox. Having said that I do not know for certain if the box has performed callbacks during the night as it is a freephone number.

Does anyone know if free phone calls appear on your bill?

If they do, then I haven't noticed it on any bill.

Ludo · 13-10-2003 02:31PM

Originally posted by ShaneOC
From what I can see the Sky+ box does not phone home any more than a normal digibox. Having said that I do not know for certain if the box has performed callbacks during the night as it is a freephone number.

Do you know how often the normal boxes phone home roughly? I have never had my current box connected to phone line..hence my problem connecting sky+ box to phone line.

Tony · 13-10-2003 02:35PM

Originally posted by eirman
This is propaganda propagated by sky. Sky+ will work without a phoneline otherwise they would insist on having a phoneline connected forever and not just 12 months.

What a ridiculous statement! Sky + works only as long as sky decide it works, if they decide to turn off Sky + functionality for whatever reason then thats what will happen. I think you should look up the definition of propaganda..

Tony

Tony · 13-10-2003 02:38PM

My pleasure. A sky box bought inUK will work here if properly activated. I'm sorry I've no idea about UK cards but there are other threads which discuss this at length.

Originally posted by Owenw
Thanks for the info Tony, it's been very helpful.

Sorry if this has been asked a millions times, but will a Sky box bought in the UK work with an Irish Sky card?

Alternatively, can UK cards be bought over here, so you can get the BBC channels on the EPG?

Thanks,
Owen

Tony · 13-10-2003 02:39PM

Yes it will work on your minidish

Originally posted by Owenw
Hi Tony,

Just a quick question:

Will the quad LNB which comes with the Sky+ upgrade package replace the one on a regular (grey, oval) minidish?

The LNB on my dish is a 'Grundig Digital LNB' and is mounted to the dish with an angled plastic connector and a plastic screw holding it in place on the dish arm.

Hope this makes sense!

Thanks,
Owen

Tony · 13-10-2003 02:42PM

Originally posted by Ludo
Do you know how often the normal boxes phone home roughly? I have never had my current box connected to phone line..hence my problem connecting sky+ box to phone line.

They phone back roughly 5 days after initial installation to ensure the installer has not used a temporary cable.

13-10-2003 03:15PM

Originally posted by Tony
What a ridiculous statement! Sky + works only as long as sky decide it works, if they decide to turn off Sky + functionality for whatever reason then thats what will happen. I think you should look up the definition of propaganda..

Tony

In practise though, the phone line has not been a problem.
Sky aren't fools either.
Of course they will cut you off if they think you are handing your mirror sub to someone else, thats why they insist and police the mirror in that way.
They have no incentive though to police phonelines with the sky plus especially if they are not subsidising the box.
If they cut you off, they are losing your custom.
Buying one off the shelf for instance in the UK you do not give your address/sub details.
Then you just ring sky to pair the card for you.
Phoneline wasn't even mentioned in my case!

mm

Tony · 13-10-2003 03:57PM

Originally posted by Man
In practise though, the phone line has not been a problem.
mm

Except for retailers who do not get paid. Recent correspondence from Sky indicates that they will take a much stromger line on this issue from now on.

Tony

Owenw · 13-10-2003 05:21PM

Cheers Tony,

Just off to your site to order a Sky+ box.

I take it the card from my existing box will work with the Sky+ and a call to Sky will get it activated and my account upgraded?

Owen

Tony · 13-10-2003 08:23PM

Originally posted by Owenw
Cheers Tony,

Just off to your site to order a Sky+ box.

I take it the card from my existing box will work with the Sky+ and a call to Sky will get it activated and my account upgraded?

Owen

I'm actually not sure as we always do a callback before calling sky. I cant see any reason why they would not do it for you though.

Thanks for the order

Ludo · 14-10-2003 08:42AM

Originally posted by Tony
Except for retailers who do not get paid. Recent correspondence from Sky indicates that they will take a much stromger line on this issue from now on.
Tony

But the impression I have gotten here is that installers won't "properly" install a phone point for you as part of the stanrard install i.e. go up to the attic and drop a line down along where the electric wires go and break a small hole in the wall to fit a proper phone point. Instead it seems they will run a wire to an existing phone point and hence making a mess of your house.

Also Sky dont provide the ability to order online here for £1 so we have to pay an installation fee regardless.

So Sky wont pay the retailers if the box isnt connected...the retailers wont properly install the things (without charging an exorbitant fee no doubt)..so it is the customer who gets screwed as always.
It was said earlier that I wanted to make an ommlette without breaking any eggs...well I would consider the retailer and sky here to be having their cake and eating it..to continue the food metaphor :-) i.e. gettin as much money as possible for as little work as possible

Please don't take me up wrong here Tony..I am not having a go at you or anything but I just think the whole think is a joke to be honest. I had to pay £400 for my box about four years ago now , have been on top package all that time and now I have to pay another €300 for sky plus (plus installation) and have some installer run a wire all over my house.

The installer the last time took ten minutes to install it as there was an existing analogue dish so he just replaced that and used the existing wires from it to the tv point and still got paid full whack. Surely if there is an extra charge for non-standard installs, then there should also be a reduction for less than standard job taking ten minutes.

14-10-2003 10:02AM

Hang on a second here now.
Installers are paid by Sky when it come to ordinary digiboxes.
But as has been pointed out here before, it's not what they should be getting for the work put into the job.

Do the installers get anything from sky for installing a sky plus box or does the individual stump up all the cost.
I Know I did, so insisting that I and anyone that bought their box over the counter should have it connected to a phone line where no mirror sub is involved will lose them business.

I presume tony when you hear from Sky that they will be clamping down on phone lines that they are refering to first time connections with subsidised digiboxes??

mm

Tony · 14-10-2003 02:09PM

I sympathise with your situation but I susopect the installers you are referring to are sierra installers and hence not very good at their job, in fairness they do not get paid very well.

A good independent installer will install a phone line for you properly but obviously he is going to charge for the time and materials this entails. Going into the attic can be very time consuming not to mention the health problems it can cause. Dropping a phone line down with electrical cables is nigh impossible not to mention extremely dangerous, remeber the elctrical wires were run before the walls were plastered.

Why do you assume the fee will be exhorbitant? It does not help the discussion to use sweeping generalistaions such as these. It was your choice to pay full price nobody put a gun to your head.

The job may well have taken ten minutes but was the installer your next door neighbour, if not he would have had to drive to and from your house which takes more than ten minutes.

I understand your frustration but you should direct your anger at sky and not installers/retailers. Nobody works for free , you get what you pay for.

Tony

Originally posted by Ludo
But the impression I have gotten here is that installers won't "properly" install a phone point for you as part of the stanrard install i.e. go up to the attic and drop a line down along where the electric wires go and break a small hole in the wall to fit a proper phone point. Instead it seems they will run a wire to an existing phone point and hence making a mess of your house.

Also Sky dont provide the ability to order online here for £1 so we have to pay an installation fee regardless.

So Sky wont pay the retailers if the box isnt connected...the retailers wont properly install the things (without charging an exorbitant fee no doubt)..so it is the customer who gets screwed as always.
It was said earlier that I wanted to make an ommlette without breaking any eggs...well I would consider the retailer and sky here to be having their cake and eating it..to continue the food metaphor :-) i.e. gettin as much money as possible for as little work as possible

Please don't take me up wrong here Tony..I am not having a go at you or anything but I just think the whole think is a joke to be honest. I had to pay £400 for my box about four years ago now , have been on top package all that time and now I have to pay another €300 for sky plus (plus installation) and have some installer run a wire all over my house.

The installer the last time took ten minutes to install it as there was an existing analogue dish so he just replaced that and used the existing wires from it to the tv point and still got paid full whack. Surely if there is an extra charge for non-standard installs, then there should also be a reduction for less than standard job taking ten minutes.

Tony · 14-10-2003 02:11PM

The customer pays all charges for Sky + there is no subsidy. As for phone connections they are clamping down on 1st time, mirror and possibly sky + boxes. I agree, i see no reason for them to insist on phone connections for sky + only users.

Tony

Originally posted by Man
Hang on a second here now.
Installers are paid by Sky when it come to ordinary digiboxes.
But as has been pointed out here before, it's not what they should be getting for the work put into the job.

Do the installers get anything from sky for installing a sky plus box or does the individual stump up all the cost.
I Know I did, so insisting that I and anyone that bought their box over the counter should have it connected to a phone line where no mirror sub is involved will lose them business.

I presume tony when you hear from Sky that they will be clamping down on phone lines that they are refering to first time connections with subsidised digiboxes??

mm

Upgrading to Sky+ question...

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