The Vaccine

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 11:24AM

King Mob wrote: »

No comment on the dozens of points you've been running away from?
Nothing at all?

You've brushed past so many at this stage.

I didnt think so because it would open up a whole can of worms

How can the CMO come out and say that we cant rely on the results of a PCR test and then say that they were x amounts of deaths due to COVID-19 as the confirmed deaths were based on a PCR test?

Surely that questions the number of confirmed deaths then?

aido79 · 11-12-2020 11:27AM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Where do you get your information then if it's not from YouTube and it's not from mainstream media?

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 11:32AM

aido79 wrote: »

Where do you get your information then if it's not from YouTube and it's not from mainstream media?

if you someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

aido79 · 11-12-2020 11:36AM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

if you someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

What's obvious? Do you actually know someone who works on the PCR tests?
It's used worldwide to test for covid19 so what's your evidence that it's the wrong test to use...or what point are you trying to make?

Dohnjoe · 11-12-2020 11:43AM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

its an opinion, I'm entitled to it
Children listen to what is being told to them by adults
Some choose to have their own mind and form their own opinion

Most people use logic and reason. I don't see any of that in your views, it's just one inane comment after the other. You are doing a far better job than anyone here of demonstrating how absurd your views on the subject are, but you seem intent on ploughing on.

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 11:43AM

aido79 wrote: »

What's obvious? Do you actually know someone who works on the PCR tests?
It's used worldwide to test for covid19 so what's your evidence that it's the wrong test to use...or what point are you trying to make?

typo in last post, should have been

if you know someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

I never said its the wrong test to use, I referred to it as being not reliable for conclusive proof of COVID-19, which has now been backed up by the CMO

aido79 · 11-12-2020 11:54AM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

typo in last post, should have been

if you know someone who works on the PCR tests, then its pretty obvious

I never said its the wrong test to use, I referred to it as being not reliable for conclusive proof of COVID-19, which has now been backed up by the CMO

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest. I can't find anything about the cmo saying anything negative about the PCR test so maybe you can provide a link. If it's not the wrong test to use then what are you trying to say?

I'm sure by now you realise this is a worldwide pandemic and the Irish CMO is a very very very( maybe even nano to use your own phrase) tiny part of the big picture.

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 12:00PM

aido79 wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make to be honest. I can't find anything about the cmo saying anything negative about the PCR test so maybe you can provide a link. If it's not the wrong test to use then what are you trying to say?

I'm sure by now you realise this is a worldwide pandemic and the Irish CMO is a very very very( maybe even nano to use your own phrase) tiny part of the big picture.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

aido79 · 11-12-2020 12:12PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall and will be surprised if you are an Irish Times subscriber given your views on mainstream media.
If you have read it, does it actually mention PCR tests?

Any test regardless of how accurate is only good for the exact time when the test is taken. A person could be tested, confirmed covid negative by a test with 100% accuracy and then contract covid19 an hour later in someone's home or other setting. This might be a better reason not to rely on testing.

Trigger · 11-12-2020 12:21PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

The below is what you are basing your argument on? The quote you would need to look at here is bolded, where does he say that PCR tests are not valid? He says nothing of the sort there. Also, it is not the CMO that is saying the below it is his assistant.

Public health officials have advised against people getting Covid-19 tests as reassurance before mixing with family members over Christmas.

“We would not advise that as a protective measure,” assistant chief medical officer Dr Ronan Glynn said, adding that “a test is only as good as the context in which it is taken”.

Some testing companies have said more people are seeking precautionary tests to facilitate get-togethers of families and friends over the festive season.

However, Dr Glynn said if people want to protect their families or meet people with underlying conditions there are “many other avenues” available to them.

He urged people to keep their network small over the coming weeks, regardless of testing status, and to ensure that anyone with symptoms or who is feeling under the weather does not meet up with others.

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 12:39PM

aido79 wrote: »

I can't read the article because it's behind a paywall and will be surprised if you are an Irish Times subscriber given your views on mainstream media.
If you have read it, does it actually mention PCR tests?

Any test regardless of how accurate is only good for the exact time when the test is taken. A person could be tested, confirmed covid negative by a test with 100% accuracy and then contract covid19 an hour later in someone's home or other setting. This might be a better reason not to rely on testing.

ahhhh so its ok for elite sports to take the test as reliable so they can compete but not for the general public

If that was the case, any results published daily of confirmed cases cant be taken seriously as there could potetntially be a much higher number going through the testing coming out with a negative result and then contracting it 5 min later

if what you say is true, how does that make sense?

John & Mary from House A get a negative test.
David & Sheila from House B get a negative test
Granny Doris gets a negative test
All go home and stay indoors until they all meet up

But yet NPHET say you still cant rely on those tests

The assistant CMO takes his direction from the CMO

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 12:45PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Most people use logic and reason. I don't see any of that in your views, it's just one inane comment after the other. You are doing a far better job than anyone here of demonstrating how absurd your views on the subject are, but you seem intent on ploughing on.

if it wasnt for me this thread would have died weeks ago
I'm keeping the mods in a job

aido79 · 11-12-2020 12:48PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

ahhhh so its ok for elite sports to take the test as reliable so they can compete but not for the general public

If that was the case, any results published daily of confirmed cases cant be taken seriously as there could potetntially be a much higher number going through the testing coming out with a negative result and then contracting it 5 min later

if what you say is true, how does that make sense?

John & Mary from House A get a negative test.
David & Sheila from House B get a negative test
Granny Doris gets a negative test
All go home and stay indoors until they all meet up

But yet NPHET say you still cant rely on those tests

The assistant CMO takes his direction from the CMO

Elite sports people are tested and then only mix with other people who have been tested so the risk of transmission is very low.

Do you think that the results published every day gives an exact representation of the amount of people in Ireland with covid? It would be ludicrous to think that. It gives an indication of the level of covid19 in the population but there is no way to know for sure how many people have it at any one time due to the amount of asymptomatic cases.

How likely do you think it is for people to do as you say in your example?
There are people who will do as you have described but I think it's unlikely that everyone would do that so I think they are right to say tests can't be relied on as the only measure for keeping everyone safe.

aido79 · 11-12-2020 12:49PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

if it wasnt for me this thread would have died weeks ago
I'm keeping the mods in a job

They've probably given up...

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 12:51PM

aido79 wrote: »

How likely do you think it is for people to do as you say in your example?
There are people who will do as you have described but I think it's unlikely that everyone would do that so I think they are right to say tests can't be relied on as the only measure for keeping everyone safe.

So if a person gets a negative test, goes home, maybe goes out for a walk, goes to the shops and keeps 2m distance, wears a muzzle and goes home and keeps to themselves, we should still assume that they have a very high probability of catching covid?

11-12-2020 12:54PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I didnt think so because it would open up a whole can of worms

How can the CMO come out and say that we cant rely on the results of a PCR test and then say that they were x amounts of deaths due to COVID-19 as the confirmed deaths were based on a PCR test?

Surely that questions the number of confirmed deaths then?

That's not an answer to any of the points that have been brought up.
You're running away yet again.

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 12:55PM

aido79 wrote: »

Elite sports people are tested and then only mix with other people who have been tested so the risk of transmission is very low.

they are not tested immediately before a match and get the result

its done every few days, of course they are mixing with other people, family etc in that period

They are putting a spin on it so we dont pass the gravy boat

ohnonotgmail · 11-12-2020 01:00PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So if a person gets a negative test, goes home, maybe goes out for a walk, goes to the shops and keeps 2m distance, wears a muzzle and goes home and keeps to themselves, we should still assume that they have a very high probability of catching covid?

having a negative test doesn't make you immune from catching it.

Dohnjoe · 11-12-2020 01:01PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

wears a muzzle

What do you call it a muzzle?

A mask reduces the spread the virus. When you cough or sneeze, if you are wearing a mask, it reduces the risk it spreads on droplets. We can talk through it, people have conversations. As mentioned, children can understand this stuff.

The only place I've seen "muzzle" mentioned is on insane conspiracy sites. Why are you parroting stuff from those sites? do you not think for yourself?

aido79 · 11-12-2020 01:02PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So if a person gets a negative test, goes home, maybe goes out for a walk, goes to the shops and keeps 2m distance, wears a muzzle and goes home and keeps to themselves, we should still assume that they have a very high probability of catching covid?

Nobody has said they have a high probability of catching covid. You're exaggerating now.
If everyone wears a mask, keeps 2m distance, goes home and keeps to themselves all the time then covid19 disappears. The unfortunate reality is that this is not always possible and that is why it spreads.

aido79 · 11-12-2020 01:03PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

they are not tested immediately before a match and get the result

its done every few days, of course they are mixing with other people, family etc in that period

They are putting a spin on it so we dont pass the gravy boat

What gravy boat?

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 01:06PM

aido79 wrote: »

What gravy boat?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1124/1180132-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

aido79 · 11-12-2020 01:18PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1124/1180132-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/

What would you suggest they tell us to do?
Just carry on as normal and take a chance?

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 01:25PM

aido79 wrote: »

What would you suggest they tell us to do?
Just carry on as normal and take a chance?

So we have to bring our own cutlery/plates to another house and only one person serves the food, yet I can go to a restaurant and use their plates/cutlery, glasses and more than one person serves me, same person serves and collects plates from other tables

are the people working in restaurants getting tested prior to work? No
Yet we are allowed to go to a restaurant
But if a group of people get a test and they all test negative and they all meet up for dinner, then there is a risk to them all passing covid

:rolleyes:

Lex Luthor · 11-12-2020 01:29PM

BUT BUT BUT............"schools are safe.........."

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1211/1183847-mayo-school-to-close-for-christmas-amid-covid-concerns/

Dohnjoe · 11-12-2020 01:34PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So we have to bring our own cutlery/plates to another house and only one person serves the food, yet I can go to a restaurant and use their plates/cutlery, glasses and more than one person serves me, same person serves and collects plates from other tables

Jesus christ..

It's like you constantly think this is all a big trick, and you are trying to "catch it out"..

Dohnjoe · 11-12-2020 01:40PM

Pretty serious case of "I don't understand therefore conspiracy" going on here

Gooser14 · 11-12-2020 02:02PM

Lex Luthor wrote:

If that was the case, any results published daily of confirmed cases cant be taken seriously as there could potetntially be a much higher number going through the testing coming out with a negative result and then contracting it 5 min later

Lex Luthor wrote:

The assistant CMO takes his direction from the CMO

I saw the news conference and the question the Deputy CMO was responding to was not in respect of the PCR test. This hasn't been explained in the Times article.

EyesClosed · 11-12-2020 02:02PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

BUT BUT BUT............"schools are safe.........."

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1211/1183847-mayo-school-to-close-for-christmas-amid-covid-concerns/

Could you please explain the conspiracy to me? Cause I've read every post in this thread... And I don't understand it at all.

aido79 · 11-12-2020 02:58PM

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So we have to bring our own cutlery/plates to another house and only one person serves the food, yet I can go to a restaurant and use their plates/cutlery, glasses and more than one person serves me, same person serves and collects plates from other tables

are the people working in restaurants getting tested prior to work? No
Yet we are allowed to go to a restaurant
But if a group of people get a test and they all test negative and they all meet up for dinner, then there is a risk to them all passing covid

:rolleyes:

There is nothing in that article that says you have to bring your own cutlery. It's a piece of advice that you either choose to ignore or you can take it on board.

The people serving you in a restaurant aren't going to sit at the table with you while you eat so it's a bit different.

Which part of it's possible to contract covid19 after you've been tested are you struggling with?

The Vaccine

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