Who will be Ireland's 1st choice outhalf at the next world cup?

bayern · 11-11-2020 07:55AM #1

Who ye got?

Contenders ordered by age as of Sept 1st 2023:

Jack Carty(31/Connacht)
Billy Burns(29/Ulster)
Ross Byrne(28/Leinster)
Joey Carbery(27/Munster)
Conor Fitzgerald(26/Connacht)
Michael Lowry(25/Ulster)
Ben Healy(24/Munster)
Harry Byrne(24/Leinster)
Jack Crowley(23/Munster)

11-11-2020 08:48AM

I still think Joey Carbery is the most naturally gifted outhalf we've produced since Sexton so if fit he would be my pick.

I really don't know after that - Harry Byrne looks like he might have the widest skill set combined with good athleticism.

Sexton is arguably one of the best players we've ever produced in any position - it's going to be an incredibly tough act to follow.

aloooof · 11-11-2020 08:58AM

There’s an alternative possibility (like 2011) where we end up going into the tournament not knowing who our 1st choice 10 is.

England managed it in 2019 where Farrell started all 6N games at 10 but they played the RWC semi-final and final with 10. Ford 12. Farrell. But I don’t think we currently have anyone of that calibre.

I’m hoping this indefinite break for Carbery will help solve his injury issues. Even then, pinning you hopes on him comes with risk given his injury profile. I think one of Carbery or Harry Byrne

pickarooney · 11-11-2020 10:09AM

Hopefully one of 5-8 will have staked his claim.
I don't rate Carty as a starting international 10, Ross Byrne is bang average, Billy Burns could have improved his game by then or might have moved on, Carbery is finished. Never heard of the last guy.

hahashake · 11-11-2020 10:22AM

No Sexton?

Zzippy · 11-11-2020 10:23AM

Carbery and Healy ahead of the pack so far. Realistically, we can't have two 10s who could be starting for Ireland fighting for game time at the same province. One will surely have to move...

11-11-2020 10:24AM

Could be quite the drought of mediocrity after Sexton retires

sydthebeat · 11-11-2020 10:28AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Carbery and Healy ahead of the pack so far. Realistically, we can't have two 10s who could be starting for Ireland fighting for game time at the same province. One will surely have to move...

carbery and H Byrne

Zzippy · 11-11-2020 10:37AM

Ha, you're right. How did I see that wrong!

kingofthekong · 11-11-2020 11:08AM

As far as talent goes I think Carberry and H byrne are two best,

However its so far out with injuries and form its so hard to tell,

As of right now presuming all fit - Carberry and H Byrne look the most likely for me

Dubinusa · 11-11-2020 04:24PM

I still don't think Carberry is the answer. He failed to bump RB at Leinster and was playing at fb! His injury profile is alarming also.
RB, Carty are leading the also ranks imo. Burns is worth a look at, but he doesn't take the kicks at Ulster.
Healy and HB are the lads to keep an eye on. They both look very capable.

aloooof · 11-11-2020 04:40PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

I still don't think Carberry is the answer. He failed to bump RB at Leinster and was playing at fb!

I'm not sure it's that simple, as it wasn't like Ross Byrne was 10 and Carberry in the 22 jersey. My take is that they preferred to have the combination of
10. RB
14. Larmour
15. Carbery

over, say
10. Carbery
14. Daly
15. Larmour
22. Byrne

What we can say for certain is that, at any opportunity an international level, Carbery has been ahead of RB.

I do agree with you tho, his injury worries are a massive concern.

sydthebeat · 11-11-2020 04:42PM

so sexton starts at 12 then???

El_Duderino 09 · 11-11-2020 05:11PM

hahashake wrote: »

No Sexton?

Absolutely no sexton. He’s been a great servant and a real positive to the team, but he’s winding down now. He’s in the phase of the game where he used to do things, doesn’t do those things anymore but still gets credit for it. Hearing sexton referred to as a running threat is just a lie at this stage. And I heard a podcast talking about how he “carries the ball so close the the line“ and that’s also not true anymore.

Anyone noticed the reduction in the late hits on sexton recently? That’s because he’s not carrying the ball as close to the line but he still gets credit for the work he did in 2017 as if he’s was doing it in 2020.

And as long as there isn’t an obvious, readymade, replacement for sexton, it’s excusable to pretend he’s still playing at 2017 levels. But at some point we have to pull the plug and shake his hand and tell him “thanks for all the hard work”.

I hope that next year they draw a line under the sexton era and start playing H Byrne and Carbery if he makes it back from injury.

ELM327 · 11-11-2020 05:13PM

Sexton will still be playing then, you're delusional if you think he's not starting.

Squidgy Black · 11-11-2020 05:20PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Sexton will still be playing then, you're delusional if you think he's not starting.

You genuinely think Sexton will be starting at 38 years old?

aloooof · 11-11-2020 05:22PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Sexton will still be playing then, you're delusional if you think he's not starting.

3 years is a long time in rugby at the best of times, let alone for a 35 year old out-half. Personally think you're way off the mark here.

As for the "delusional" comment, it's just condescending, hubristic and adds zero to the conversation.

briandebum · 11-11-2020 05:52PM

I do try and make the effort to watch the U-20s every year. I think if Crowley gets the gametime he could be special. But I also thought Bill Johnston was also the best upcoming outhalf at that level, goes to show how hard it is to predict these guys careers. So much comes down to injuries and also opportunity.

Dubinusa · 11-11-2020 05:52PM

I hope Sexton is done by the next rwc. He's not the player he was and will decline more with age. I hope someone else takes the reins.
It is a shame what happened with Jackson. I think he would be starting if he was still playing here in Ireland.

Neil3030 · 11-11-2020 05:55PM

I reckon it will be one of Carbery, Healy or H Byrne.

For the sake of a punt, I'll say Healy. He really seems to tick more boxes at his age than anyone else I've seen in quite some time.

However, the wildcard here for me is Craig Casey. Size is the obvious issue, but if he can get into the Munster team ahead of Murray, that could decide Ireland's 10 in 2023. Because I just don't see a 10 developing core strategic skills at the highest level when the 9 is making all the decisions.

theVersatile · 11-11-2020 06:18PM

Joey if he stays fit - if he doesn't then it could be anyone really.

El_Duderino 09 · 11-11-2020 06:22PM

theVersatile wrote: »

Joey if he stays fit - if he doesn't then it could be anyone really.

Any player who has been out for that long has to be reintroduced with skepticism and has to re-earn their place. Joey has been out for over a year and has no estimated return date yet.

I hope he can get back to where he was but I’d take nothing for granted.

12-11-2020 01:06AM

It's really bad that I can't confidently choose anyone from that poll. Carbery if fit I guess.

Uriel. · 12-11-2020 01:18AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's really bad that I can't confidently choose anyone from that poll. Carbery if fit I guess.

That's because there is a glaring omission..
Mads to come back to D4 and lead Ireland to a WC semi final, tears and all.

Dubinusa · 12-11-2020 04:40PM

Alternatively, who will be our 9?

Dog Botherer · 12-11-2020 08:09PM

Dubinusa wrote: »

Alternatively, who will be our 9?

i’ll do it

KaneToad · 12-11-2020 09:43PM

Ciaran Frawley

Heres Johnny · 12-11-2020 09:56PM

No 38 year old will be playing 10 for Ireland, or any other country for that matter, in the next world cup. Think there may have been 1 or 2 forwards of that age for tier 2 or 3 nations in the past but not for a contending team. Even the great Dan Carter knew his time in black was up in 2015 and he was 33 or so then. BOD too.
I commend sextons drive to want to be there, but it just ain't happening folks.

El_Duderino 09 · 12-11-2020 10:36PM

Heres Johnny wrote: »

No 38 year old will be playing 10 for Ireland, or any other country for that matter, in the next world cup. Think there may have been 1 or 2 forwards of that age for tier 2 or 3 nations in the past but not for a contending team. Even the great Dan Carter knew his time in black was up in 2015 and he was 33 or so then. BOD too.
I commend sextons drive to want to be there, but it just ain't happening folks.

I think it’s unlikely but there’s a clear path to being forced to play him: There isn’t a clear successor and most of the best candidates are very young and inexperienced at the top level. Johnny was a world class player and has the influence of a tip top player so it won’t be easy to drop him while he’s still better than his potential replacements.

So they could end up continuing with Sexton until it’s too late to try the new guys. How long until we start hearing talk of “what he brings to the dressing room”, which is code for “not doing it on the pitch but it feels comfortable to play him anyway”.

It’s also difficult for a coach to drop him. If they play Sexton and lose then it’s everyone’s fault. If you drop sexton and lose then it’s the coach’s fault. Much easier to just keep playing him this year and next year and hope a player comes along to usurp him so they don’t have to make the difficult decision to drop him or not give him another year’s contract.

kingofthekong · 13-11-2020 08:53AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think it’s unlikely but there’s a clear path to being forced to play him: There isn’t a clear successor and most of the best candidates are very young and inexperienced at the top level. Johnny was a world class player and has the influence of a tip top player so it won’t be easy to drop him while he’s still better than his potential replacements.

So they could end up continuing with Sexton until it’s too late to try the new guys. How long until we start hearing talk of “what he brings to the dressing room”, which is code for “not doing it on the pitch but it feels comfortable to play him anyway”.

It’s also difficult for a coach to drop him. If they play Sexton and lose then it’s everyone’s fault. If you drop sexton and lose then it’s the coach’s fault. Much easier to just keep playing him this year and next year and hope a player comes along to usurp him so they don’t have to make the difficult decision to drop him or not give him another year’s contract.

Could end up seeing some kind of Rog/sexton situation at the 2011 rwc - except this time its Sexton being in Rog's shoes

CMcsporty · 13-11-2020 10:38AM

kingofthekong wrote: »

Could end up seeing some kind of Rog/sexton situation at the 2011 rwc - except this time its Sexton being in Rog's shoes

Sexton's contract is up at the end of the season.
It wont be renewed. Bon voyage to Pro14

I've voted for Carbery. But he does look too frail considering his injuries.
He may have to get moved to FB to protect him a bit more and also allow Crowley to emerge.
Prob the best medium to long term plan considering the lack of depth at FB.
Fingers crossed Harry Byrne is also the real deal.

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