Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

FrancieBrady · 05-11-2020 02:16PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I don't believe a whistleblower or publication would put themselves in such a position versus the whistleblower has the messages intact on his phone as he was one of the correspondents.

Of course, they could be faked but that leaves said whistleblower and publication open to financial ruin - at this stage, which is more likely?

And credibility ruin, which would lead to financial ruin anyway even if they aren't sued.

Just as a sidebar, has anyone ever sued the Village successfully?

FrancieBrady · 05-11-2020 02:17PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Yes. I accept that. I was hoping for something more permanent however.

I'm enjoying the squirming to be honest. Always good to see high moral grounders squirm.

McMurphy · 05-11-2020 02:18PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I don't believe a whistleblower or publication would put themselves in such a position versus the whistleblower has the messages intact on his phone as he was one of the correspondents.

Of course, they could be faked but that leaves said whistleblower and publication open to financial ruin - at this stage, which is more likely?

For Chay Bowes to release "photoshopped"/"Faked" screenshots in the serious allegations he's putting into the public domain isn't even remotely plausible, no doubt he'll have the original WhatsApp exchange still on his phone.

The "Fake News" suggestions = Tinfoil hat lunacy.

atticu · 05-11-2020 02:18PM

McMurphy wrote: »

You have absolutely no self awareness, none at all.

:pac:

Thanks for the personal insult.

Just remind me of the question you asked.

You asked a question, I answered, then you tried to link that answer to a previous post to try and imply that you asked a different question.

Would you like me to post them in order, so that you can get a better understanding?

weldoninhio · 05-11-2020 02:18PM

blanch152 wrote: »

For what reason should they be released?

He is entitled to privacy like everyone else.

His work phone shouldn’t be used for personal business so there shouldn’t be anything private. The phone and and data on it is property of the state.

smurgen · 05-11-2020 02:20PM

As it was on his iphone the I cloud should at least have some of the non whatsapp messages.

Fann Linn · 05-11-2020 02:21PM

Donnelly on RTE1 now. Will he roll back on his DE submission last year?

FrancieBrady · 05-11-2020 02:21PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

His work phone shouldn’t be used for personal business so there shouldn’t be anything private. The phone and and data on it is property of the state.

And he has stated again and again that he was implementing an agreed government strategy.

Not seeing any wriggle room for him on the destroying official records there.

McMurphy · 05-11-2020 02:22PM

atticu wrote: »

Thanks for the personal insult.

There was absolutely no personal insult, except me blowing a hole in your nonsense theories. Sorry and thanks at the same time.

Just remind me of the question you asked.

You asked a question, I answered, then you tried to link that answer to a previous post to try and imply that you asked a different question.

Would you like me to post them in order, so that you can get a better understanding?

Ah FFS, yeah do, or else just jog on.

Fann Linn · 05-11-2020 02:23PM

Donnelly back tracking now. Really are spineless.

smurgen · 05-11-2020 02:26PM

Seems like there is numerous changes between the draft and final draft agreed.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1324321500716040192?s=19

Sir Oxman · 05-11-2020 02:27PM

McMurphy wrote: »

There was absolutely no personal insult, except me blowing a hole in your nonsense theories. Sorry and thanks at the same time.

Ah FFS, yeah do, or else just jog on.

There are quite a few false claims to being offended or being offended on someone's else behalf on this thread

cameramonkey · 05-11-2020 02:29PM

blanch152 wrote: »

For what reason should they be released?

He is entitled to privacy like everyone else.

If it was government business then they should be released. He should have no problem with disclosing his txt if has nothing to hide.

This one is going to run and run and run, The more it runs the more Leo runs out of road. It will be interesting to see when the penny drops with the diehard FGers, when do you think you will realise that Leo is past the point of no return?

McMurphy · 05-11-2020 02:36PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

There are quite a few false claims to being offended or being offended on someone's else behalf on this thread

Personal insult?

They posted

atticu wrote: »

If you believe that is a screenshot of anyone’s phone, then I have some magic beans that you are probably interested in buying.

"Anyone's phone"

Shifted to this.

atticu wrote: »

I don’t believe they are actual screenshots of the mobile phones of the people they are making out to be.

So they're screenshots of a phone after all, they're just Photoshopped to fake who's been sending them and receiving them?

And then pretend to be "personally insulted" when you call them out.

Any suggestions at all that Bowes would put himself in the dangerous position of faking the most serious allegations he released is, tinfoil hat lunacy.

You can bet the arse in your trousers he will have the hard evidence (in this case the original exchange) on his phone. But I hope he has a backup made if he's requested to hand it over.

Might get misplaced.

cameramonkey · 05-11-2020 02:36PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Yes. I accept that. I was hoping for something more permanent however.

This process wil be much more damaging that a head shot that does him instantly. FF are fighting like cats and dogs, MM is looking like a FG stooge, Leo is looking arrogant ,corrupt and untouchable. Greens look like they are only interested in protecting their position in government. The longer it goes on the better for the opposition. It will be a long, slow sinking of Leo, he is holed below the waterline but does not realise it. It is very entertaining.

stockshares · 05-11-2020 02:39PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The official reason is NAGP were not signed up to a framework for contract negotiations with the Department of Health, or under the umbrella of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions.

Good outline about them here: https://www.thejournal.ie/national-association-of-general-practitioners-leo-varadkar-leak-5252202-Nov2020/

But even if they were a recognised 'union', what Varadkar did would be equivalent to govt engaging in a lengthy and fractious negotiation with ASTI and at the 11th hour, when the deal was very nearly done but not signed, the Taoiseach was privately asked by a friend to send him a copy - a friend who had been turned down by the minister of education.
Without telling anyone the Taoiseach then sent a copy, warning it was confidential, via unofficial channels keeping no records to a friend high up in a rival union.

Thanks that's a good article

So the NAGP came into being because:
In July 2013 the the IMO chief executive George McNiece was due to receive €20 million pension fund which was to be paid for by their subscription fees when GPs were struggling with cuts introduced by the Government under Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (FEMPI). Disenchantment led to a slew of resignations from the association and the eventual formation of the NAGP who organised the first ever street-demonstration by Irish GPs and attacked former Fine Gael TD James Reilly as the worst health minister in the history of the State.

They then made two decisions which would be their undoing.

The NAGP opposed free GP care for children under six.
That led to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission contacting the group to say it could be anti-competitive to patients.
Then after the abortion referendum in 2018 to he NAGP called for an “opt-in” provision for doctors to provide abortion services, and for onward referrals not to be compulsory. Those calls drew criticism from then Health Minister Simon Harris, who said the NAGP’s stance on referrals in particular “[flew] in the face of care and compassion.

My opinion
From what I can see they initially were an improvement on the IMO but the Gov excluded them for political reasons, mainly their position on abortion services and their attacking of Fine Gael. Their views didn't fit with the Gov populist view but the reason used to exclude them was that in contrast to the IMO, the NAGP was not signed up to a framework for contract negotiations with the Department of Health or under the umbrella of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions even though the group did join the Independent Workers’ Union[/B] which allowed them to directly negotiate on pay issues with the Department of Health in 2014.

I think the Gov were wrong to exclude them at the time. However given the recent revelations they seem to be populated with some very dodgy individuals.

Was there no Court action that they could have taken to challenge the GOV decision to exclude them?

costacorta · 05-11-2020 02:42PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

This process wil be much more damaging that a head shot that does him instantly. FF are fighting like cats and dogs, MM is looking like a FG stooge, Leo is looking arrogant ,corrupt and untouchable. Greens look like they are only interested in protecting their position in government. The longer it goes on the better for the opposition. It will be a long, slow sinking of Leo, he is holed below the waterline but does not realise it. It is very entertaining.

Not at all this time next week we be discussing SF and their hiding of money in NI that was meant to be in the republic . Big scandal coming down the line on SF finances and you heard it here first ..

McMurphy · 05-11-2020 02:50PM

I'm not getting drawn in after this.

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Thread has gone way off topic. There are other threads to discuss SF, Northern Ireland and/or Gerry Adams.

Back on topic please

Nobotty · 05-11-2020 02:55PM

McMurphy wrote: »

Might get misplaced.

Seemingly whatsapps are never deleted
If I was able to Google this,I'm sure the Gardai can get deleted messages
I'd say they can look for anything chay Bowes deleted too as part of their investigation
He mightnt like that
https://how2foru.com/how-to-recover-deleted-whatsapp-messages_294/

FrancieBrady · 05-11-2020 02:58PM

Gardai now involved.

Not going away.

https://twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1324344041492914177

McMurphy · 05-11-2020 02:59PM

Nobotty wrote: »

Seemingly whatsapps are never deleted
If I was able to Google this,I'm sure the Gardai can get deleted messages
I'd say they can look for anything chay Bowes deleted too as part of their investigation
He mightnt like that
https://how2foru.com/how-to-recover-deleted-whatsapp-messages_294/

There's a bit of a recurring theme in Ireland to imply the whistleblower might have something to hide or fear.

Gatling · 05-11-2020 03:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gardai now involved.

Not going away.

https://twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1324344041492914177

Lol

This should be good

weldoninhio · 05-11-2020 03:02PM

Nobotty wrote: »

Seemingly whatsapps are never deleted
If I was able to Google this,I'm sure the Gardai can get deleted messages
I'd say they can look for anything chay Bowes deleted too as part of their investigation
He mightnt like that
https://how2foru.com/how-to-recover-deleted-whatsapp-messages_294/

Why would they want access to Chay Bowes phone? Thats not government property, has no relevance to Leo leaking confidential documents. You're grasping there.

thomas 123 · 05-11-2020 03:04PM

costacorta wrote: »

Bottom line here ye look for credibility and honesty but have no problem believing that yer ex leader was in the IRA and always say if he says he says he wasn’t we believe him . That’s the problem Thomas ye have no credibility in SF calling out anyone ..

But they are elected by the people of Ireland to represent them? What right has any one of us to slander them every time they raise an issue?

Sure FF and FG have skeletons in their closet, imagine if sf just said that each time they were bested in a debate?

Eg:

Gov: we want to tax x.
SF: that’s bad because ye sold off the oil and gas.

Sure how many people has the state of hospitals and housing killed? I guarantee you it pales in comparison to any alleged number of deaths caused by the political party Sinn Fein.

Sad state of affairs.

Gatling · 05-11-2020 03:06PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why would they want access to Chay Bowes phone? Thats not government property, has no relevance to Leo leaking confidential documents. You're grasping there.

Seems he's trying to get some traction on his tweet about going to the gardai a few days ago in time for the weekend ,

FrancieBrady · 05-11-2020 03:14PM

As lead balloon jokes go this has to be a classic. His face when the camera cuts back to him.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1324351976562479105

Bannasidhe · 05-11-2020 03:24PM

stockshares wrote: »

Thanks that's a good article

So the NAGP came into being because:
In July 2013 the the IMO chief executive George McNiece was due to receive €20 million pension fund which was to be paid for by their subscription fees when GPs were struggling with cuts introduced by the Government under Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (FEMPI). Disenchantment led to a slew of resignations from the association and the eventual formation of the NAGP who organised the first ever street-demonstration by Irish GPs and attacked former Fine Gael TD James Reilly as the worst health minister in the history of the State.

They then made two decisions which would be their undoing.

The NAGP opposed free GP care for children under six.
That led to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission contacting the group to say it could be anti-competitive to patients.
Then after the abortion referendum in 2018 to he NAGP called for an “opt-in” provision for doctors to provide abortion services, and for onward referrals not to be compulsory. Those calls drew criticism from then Health Minister Simon Harris, who said the NAGP’s stance on referrals in particular “[flew] in the face of care and compassion.

My opinion
From what I can see they initially were an improvement on the IMO but the Gov excluded them for political reasons, mainly their position on abortion services and their attacking of Fine Gael. Their views didn't fit with the Gov populist view but the reason used to exclude them was that in contrast to the IMO, the NAGP was not signed up to a framework for contract negotiations with the Department of Health or under the umbrella of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions even though the group did join the Independent Workers’ Union[/B] which allowed them to directly negotiate on pay issues with the Department of Health in 2014.

I think the Gov were wrong to exclude them at the time. However given the recent revelations they seem to be populated with some very dodgy individuals.

Was there no Court action that they could have taken to challenge the GOV decision to exclude them?

However, the NAGP did not sign up with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions which would have making excluding them impossible and afaik are were not a registered lobby group.

They were excluded as they did not do the paperwork required to get included. No one's fault but their own. The left the IMO as the only officially recognised group and then moaned about it and resorted to using personal friendships and unofficial back channels.

The NAGP are not the victims here of anything but their own hubris.

The real victims are the people who don't have the means to whatsapp the Teesh of the day and get a personal favour on the hush hush.
Or 'clients' as the HSE calls them.

_Kaiser_ · 05-11-2020 03:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As lead balloon jokes go this has to be a classic. His face when the camera cuts back to him.

Leo's arrogance on display again. Thinks he's gotten away with it and doesn't see what the fuss was about anyway. Sure he isn't answerable to the plebs, and certainly not SF :rolleyes:

suicide_circus · 05-11-2020 03:28PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gardai now involved.

Not going away.

https://twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1324344041492914177

Lol

RandomViewer · 05-11-2020 03:28PM

Varadkar has set back union negotiations a few decades, which might endear him with the Alan B'stard wing of FG its going to make things awkward for everyone else

Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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