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Neighbour Building a Wall in the Garden

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  • 03-11-2020 1:53pm
    #1
    bob2oo7
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭


    Hi all

    Just a couple of quick questions please to clarify some issues

    Summary: New Neighbor doing a complete refurb on his property (he is a builder)

    We both have a long garden, 1/2 of it has a wall running along it, the rest a hedge

    On Saturday he came in with a digger and ripped out the hedge (mentioned in passing 3 weeks earlier he "might" do it, then went ahead and did it without informing us, letting us know etc.)

    We had words, he said he should have came in and told us etc. So that was sorted

    He then told us yesterday he is building a wall, has a boundary marked out and pillars will be on our side

    We said no, no pillars and don't do anything until we speak to our solicitor

    So now I want and need 2 things to happen:

    1) He can build the wall but the pillars MUST be on his side, not ours. Or else, if he want to put them on our side he needs to push his wall back so that he pillars are on his side of the boundary, not ours

    2) We need to clearly mark the boundary, but given that he is building the wall, he took out the hedge, he is doing everything, is it his responsibility to get a survey done and a boundary marked out legally? Or is it ours? Why should we be out of pocket to mark out a boundary when he decided to rip out the hedge and replace it with a wall ?

    All feedback welcome

    Thanks in advance


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    #2
    Xterminator
    Registered Users Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    Hi OP

    You have not said, so i'm not sure why you object to the boundary wall being on the boundary with pillars. i surmise it is because you were annoyed he wasn't better at consulting you with the changes, which IMO is understandable.

    However many boundary walls have pillars, and probably look a little better for it, It will also enhance your property.

    Re the survey question, did you feel the need the get a survey for the hedge? if the wall goes along the same line, then the boundary will be in the exact same place. So how does that affect you and why does a survey need to be done - as long as he sticks to the hedge line? It doesnt is the answer. if you want one, then you should pay for it.

    IMO you are considering cutting off your own nose to spite you face here, to make a point. Maybe take a deep breath and reassess your priorities here, is it the peaceful enjoyment of your property? Is it putting your neighbour in his place?


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    #3
    spindex
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭spindex


    My advice is to suck it up and try and get on with your neighbor's, at most your gonna lose 2 foot square in land if there are 4 pillars, is that really worth falling out over ?

    As for marking out the boundaries, use the existing wall as a guide, tie a string to the wall ( furthest from where the hedge was) pull the string tight so it touches the length of the whole wall, keep the string tight all the way to the boundary in front of you.

    Out of interest what did you say to him when he mentioned he might remove the hedge.


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    #4
    bob2oo7
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭bob2oo7


    Hi guys

    Many thanks for your replies and here are some of my responses:

    Boundary wall - no issue, hedge is gone (without communication but we sorted that out and he agreed he should have told us and knocked on the door, but as I say, that issue is in the past)

    Hedge line - gone, it has all been dug out

    On the pillars, why should they be on my side? Surely this shouldn't even be up for debate? Pillars should go on his land on his side? If I was to build a wall that is exactly how I would do it out of courtesy?


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    #5
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Really not worth causing hassle for yourself here you have to live beside them.

    The wall will enhance your property and he seems to be paying for it himself I believe maybe I am wrong on that?

    Never ever mention talking to solicitors that will definitely leave a bad taste in your neighbours mouth and there is no need for it discuss it like adults he seems reasonable as he accepted he should have spoken to you first.


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    #6
    A2LUE42
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭A2LUE42


    What wall is there already?
    Is it just extending this the remaining distance (1/2) of the garden to a specific point at the end?
    So, in this case, it should be straight forward to see the start and end point.
    The wall should be a straight line between.
    But for your own sake, make sure the foundation is sufficient. If the wall is along the boundary itself, then the foundation will have to be encroaching further into your side to have a solid footing.

    What height is the existing wall above ground?
    What depth is the wall below ground?
    What depth is the foundation at? Does it need to be stepped?
    What size is the foundation Lenght x Width x Depth/Height?
    Is it to be reinforced, if needed?
    Will the finish and construction match the existing wall or is it a new construction and finish?
    If different, is the old wall being modified to match new?
    Wall/Pier Caps to match existing. Block or plastered finish.
    Is there water running/draining through where the wall is to be built that was previously unobstructed by the hedge?

    As someone who built a wall recently, I am well aware of the costs involved, I'd be delighted if someone else had paid for it to be done. (provided it didn't negatively impact me and it was done in a manner that matched with existing.

    Excavation and removal of trench to pour a foundation.
    Foundation with rebar done in one pour.
    Blocks for wall and Pillars
    Cement
    Plasticiser
    Sand for concrete/mortar and plastering.
    Wall and Pier Caps
    Plastic corners for plastering.
    Wall joins for old/new wall
    Mesh to tie old/new plaster
    Lime for plastering.

    A literal money pit :-)

    But everyone can have different perspectives and viewpoints on what they want in their own garden, so in the end, it is whatever you prioritise..

    Does it look right for the garden
    Is it constructed properly and safely
    will I need to paint/maintain it? or can it be left in whatever the finished state is.
    Will it cause any issues with drainage.


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    #7
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Pillars should be on his side .or else the whole wall (pillars included ) should be on his side
    He has no right to build on your property, but as a builder I assume he already knows this
    He is banking on the fact that you do not know


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    #8
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,287 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    It has been a tradition? custom? law? for a very long time that the pillars of a wall go on the side of the person who owns the wall. The practise used to be that between a row of houses each house would have one wall that they 'owned' and the pillars are on their side. In the event of damage or repair you are responsible for the wall with the pillars on your side.

    Maybe this has changed. Maybe there are new rules. Maybe it doesn't matter any longer. But that is the origin of the whole notion of where the pillars should be.

    I have no problem with pillars visually, and I would have thought that a wall would be a better divider than a hedge, so I would be inclined to let him at it. That's me though, the OP may choose to see it differently.


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    #9
    hurikane
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭hurikane


    Why is it always a builder? I’ve had this in the past, builder neighbours who think they can can whatever they like.


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    #10
    bob2oo7
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭bob2oo7


    Happy to let him at it, with the pillars on his side!!


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    #11
    purpleshoe
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭purpleshoe


    The guy is a chancer. His communication about what he is doing is half-arsed. When you are doing something that impacts a neighbour it needs to be clearly communicated up front. As he is a builder, he already knows the importance of this.

    I see advantages to a hedge being replaced with a wall. However this should not mean you just roll over. It is by design, not accident, that the pillars are on your side.

    Without it descending into a stand off, nip this behaviour/attitude in the bud now. Then he will apply more foresight if he ever decides to build a big extension.

    Don't mention Solicitor again, and make all effort that it doesn't escalate to this.


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    #12
    Vikings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    Is your only problem here the visible pillars and any inconvenience around having them your side e.g. mowing grass etc.?

    If the profile of the wall is flipped so the pillars are on the neighbours side, will you not end up with less space?

    Assuming the boundary splits the width of the wall + pillars that is.


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    #13
    bob2oo7
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭bob2oo7


    Oh, and just to clarify the solicitor comment, it was purely in relation to a boundary map. Nothing else and did not come across in a bad way to the neighbor etc.


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    #14
    Poulgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 779 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    Has the existing wall got pillars? If so, which side are they on? If they are on your side, if I were you, I would accept them.

    A wall is so much less hassle that a hedge. No maintenance & keeps dogs out.

    The other option would be a wall with precast concrete panels. No pillars (except for a few concrete posts), so no protrusion, either side. Faster to erect & cheaper than a concrete block wall. It would look better too, imo.


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    #15
    3d4life
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭3d4life


    What height is this wall going to be ?

    If neighbour owns wall then neighbour can decide to knock down wall ?

    ( where would that leave OP ? )

    Would this thread be better off in the Legal forum ?


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    #16
    Sparkey84
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Sparkey84


    am i right in thinking you can split the pillars? have them protrude half each way. i,ve seen this done on a low wall in a front garden and it looked better in my opinion more symmetrical


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    #17
    hurikane
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭hurikane


    bob2oo7 wrote: »
    Oh, and just to clarify the solicitor comment, it was purely in relation to a boundary map. Nothing else and did not come across in a bad way to the neighbor etc.

    Neighbour has put you in this situation, no need to clarify anything or take a softly approach with them. There wouldn’t be any issue had they not decided to rip out the hedge, and then build a wall with the pillars on your side, and nice finish on his no doubt. You’re 100% in the right here, don’t let them away with anything.


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    #18
    Tails142
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭Tails142


    Walls are expensive, 10k even 20k depending on length, low maintenance. Sounds like you're getting a free wall


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    #19
    endofrainbow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭endofrainbow


    If he's a builder, the wall will cost next to nothing to him


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    #20
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    endofrainbow wrote: »
    If he's a builder, the wall will cost next to nothing to him

    why.
    does he get the materials for free
    is his time worth nothing


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    #21
    hurikane
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭hurikane


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    why.
    does he get the materials for free
    is his time worth nothing

    Probably using materials left over after jobs. I don’t bill the wife when I doing work on the house.


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    #22
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    Hi OP,

    Im exactly in the same position as yourself, I want to build the wall and the adjoining property is rented out. Ive been advised that the pillars have to be on my side of the wall.

    Im getting onto my solicitor as she said it will be in the deeds of the property who has responsibility for up- keep/ responsibility of boundary wall/ hedge etc.

    Neighbour on my other side built a wall years back and put the support pillars on his side, he paid for everything.

    I await my solicitor to get back to me on what's in the deeds.

    Dont let the builder do anything yet until you get onto your solicitor, plus the pillars have to be on his side of the wall not yours.

    He sounds too keen for my liking and not great at communication with his new next door neighbour. Id watch this lad, down the road he probably ideas on building an extension.

    Id watch him like a hawk OP.


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    #23
    hurikane
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭hurikane


    kravmaga wrote: »
    Hi OP,

    Im exactly in the same position as yourself, I want to build the wall and the adjoining property is rented out. Ive been advised that the pillars have to be on my side of the wall.

    Im getting onto my solicitor as she said it will be in the deeds of the property who has responsibility for up- keep/ responsibility of boundary wall/ hedge etc.

    Neighbour on my other side built a wall years back and put the support pillars on his side, he paid for everything.

    I await my solicitor to get back to me on what's in the deeds.

    Dont let the builder do anything yet until you get onto your solicitor, plus the pillars have to be on his side of the wall not yours.

    He sounds too keen for my liking and not great at communication with his new next door neighbour. Id watch this lad, down the road he probably ideas on building an extension.

    Id watch him like a hawk OP.

    Second this, these lads couldn’t care less and will do whatever they can get away with.


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    #24
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    bob2oo7 wrote: »
    Hi guys

    Many thanks for your replies and here are some of my responses:

    Boundary wall - no issue, hedge is gone (without communication but we sorted that out and he agreed he should have told us and knocked on the door, but as I say, that issue is in the past)

    Hedge line - gone, it has all been dug out

    On the pillars, why should they be on my side? Surely this shouldn't even be up for debate? Pillars should go on his land on his side? If I was to build a wall that is exactly how I would do it out of courtesy?

    The pillars have to be on his side , not your side. Dont let him away with it, he sounds like a cheeky fecker, give an inch, take a mile builder type.


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    #25
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    hurikane wrote: »
    Probably using materials left over after jobs. I don’t bill the wife when I doing work on the house.

    most builders dont have 200-300 blocks left over from jobs . and even if they did they were still paid for

    lost time building the wall is still a cost to the builder and probably paying guys working for him to do it either way


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    #26
    hurikane
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭hurikane


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    most builders dont have 200-300 blocks left over from jobs . and even if they did they were still paid for

    lost time building the wall is still a cost to the builder and probably paying guys working for him to do it either way

    Maybe building walls is one of his hobbies, no time lost there. Time well spent, he might even give himself a credit note.


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    #27
    Wailin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭Wailin


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    most builders dont have 200-300 blocks left over from jobs . and even if they did they were still paid for

    Of course they're still paid for, but not by the builder.


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    #28
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Wailin wrote: »
    Of course they're still paid for, but not by the builder.

    most builders work on a quote basis so the builder is paying for them


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    #29
    Wailin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,416 ✭✭✭Wailin


    What? The price of materials is not taken into account when pricing a job? First I've ever heard of!


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    #30
    hurikane
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭hurikane


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    most builders work on a quote basis so the builder is paying for them

    You’re completely derailing this thread. What’s a quote got to do with anything?


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    #31
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,768 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    I think dialog is the answer here.

    Hedge is gone, come to a compromise with the pillars, like others have said the wall will be free to you bar the loss of the hedge. As far as I am aware you and the neighbor should be going halves on any wall or boundary - but as he did not bring it to your attention I see your grievance.

    Maybe now he thinks he is doing you a big favor building the wall.


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