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WTF is mansplaining?

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13567…11

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    #62
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    Morathi wrote: »
    From the linked article:

    "Ireland ranks above the EU average with 71.3 points, but the Index score for Ireland shows gender inequalities are most pronounced in the domain of power, where the points tally is 53.4.

    Seems like we're heading in the right direction, wouldn't say it's "rife" in Ireland.

    The domain of power score is the lowest in Europe, women are still paid approx 14% less than men for the same job and the gap is widening at the moment instead of getting smaller.
    Top job interview questions for women include
    Childcare and appearance for men it’s agility and advancement

    Being on par or better than Europe doesn't make it ok... anything other than equal is rife... no?


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    #63
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭daheff


    Tell her she's being sexist. That'll learn her


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    #64
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    gogo wrote: »
    Here you go

    https://ec.europa.eu/ireland/node/684_en

    Hardly rife but I accept that things need to improve in regards to violence against women, but in positions of power CEOS etc. what can be done if women don't put themselves up for roles that involve positions of power or are underrepresented in stem fields which are predominantly Male driven industries.

    Women dominate in teaching and nursing fields, is there a move to equalise the gender gap in these careers or to get more women into construction, waste and recycling careers or logistics and transport. Or is it just in careers that invite better pay that women are being prejudiced against

    Also in what way are women underpaid when doing the same job that men do on an equal footing, if a man negotiates a better salary than a woman with the same skill sets and experience who's fault is that? As it's well known that men are far more aggressive in negotiating contracts than their female counterparts, in unionised sectors such as education, nursing, childcare etc how is there a gender pay gap when pay scales are the same for everyone

    Women (and men) who take a career break for having and raising children should acknowledge when rejoining the workforce that they haven't the experience of some of their counterparts who have done the job for longer and put in the hours to get to where they are in their careers, while raising children is a very important part of any economy and should be rewarded for with a living wage (imo) while taking time off to do it you can't compare it to real world experience in the job market

    Is it simply that women don't really want careers in the higher paying industries which would sacrifice important years given over to family and children in the same way men don't really want to go into education and nursing and childcare which are lower paying industries simply because some roles are better suited to women and some roles are better suited to men


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    #65
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,723 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    gogo wrote: »
    The domain of power score is the lowest in Europe, women are still paid approx 14% less than men for the same job and the gap is widening at the moment instead of getting smaller.
    Top job interview questions for women include
    Childcare and appearance for men it’s agility and advancement

    Being on par or so what better than Europe doesn't make it ok... anything other than equal is rife... no?

    Top interview questions are childcare? Really? As I have never even been asked if I have a child in an interview? I have never even heard of this.

    I have also carried out about ten or twelve interviews and have never heard it raised. I have never heard anyone man or woman asked questions about their private lives other than hobbies.

    I have also never heard opinions on appearances other then one woman coming into am interview with multiple piercings.which would have been mentioned for a man.

    While it may happen it's rare. Not a top question.


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    #66
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    Stihl waters wrote: »

    Is it simply that women don't really want careers in the higher paying industries which would sacrifice important years given over to family and children in the same way men don't really want to go into education and nursing and childcare which are lower paying industries simply because some roles are better suited to women and some roles are better suited to men

    Jesus Christ, did I wake up in 1950 this morning 🀦*♀️


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    #67
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Top interview questions are childcare? Really? As I have never even been asked if I have a child in an interview? I have never even heard of this.

    I have also carried out about ten or twelve interviews and have never heard it raised. I have never heard anyone man or woman asked questions about their private lives other than hobbies.

    I have also never heard opinions on appearances other then one woman coming into am interview with multiple piercings.which would have been mentioned for a man.

    While it may happen it's rare. Not a top question.

    Sorry trying to link it here and can’t find it, will keep looking... personally never been asked about appearance but have been asked about childcare and agility


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    #68
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,723 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    gogo wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, did I wake up in 1950 this morning 🀦*♀️

    Many women take breaks in their careers to look after their children. Which they have a perfect right to do. Many would prefer to do this. Many would not.

    Many women choose to job share or work less hours. And then go back to their careers. It doesn't mean they are forced to. They choose to.

    There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean they are from the 50s.


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    #69
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    You omitted his point that’s it’s simply because women don’t want careers in high paying industries ....


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    #70
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,723 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    gogo wrote: »
    You omitted his point that’s it’s simply because women don’t want careers in high paying industries ....

    Some women don't. Some do. Women's choices in their careers impact their pay. It's not all as simple as getting paid less money for the same jobs.


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    #71
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    gogo wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, did I wake up in 1950 this morning ��*♀️

    In what way is it like 1950s, no matter how you legislate theres typically male and female dominated roles and I can't see how you can counter for that, women don't want to be brickies or electricians as much as most men don't want to be childcare workers in a creche or nursing, I'm all for equality but typical gender roles will always be there and that doesn't mean there isn't equality in the jobs market for women who want to go into stem roles (and fixing sewers and collecting rubbish , unlikely as we are to see anyone marching for gender equality in these positions)


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    #72
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Mansplaining is a woke term, it's derogatory and should not be used.


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    #73
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    gogo wrote: »
    The domain of power score is the lowest in Europe, women are still paid approx 14% less than men for the same job and the gap is widening at the moment instead of getting smaller.
    Top job interview questions for women include
    Childcare and appearance for men it’s agility and advancement

    Being on par or better than Europe doesn't make it ok... anything other than equal is rife... no?

    So there is 14% to be saved right away, just employ women.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #74
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Some women don't. Some do. Women's choices in their careers impact their pay. It's not all as simple as getting paid less money for the same jobs.

    Agreed, nothing is simple...not going to solve it in AH on a Sunday afternoon either way


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    #75
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Some women don't. Some do. Women's choices in their careers impact their pay. It's not all as simple as getting paid less money for the same jobs.


    It’s not as simple as women making choices for themselves either to accept lesser pay and go without promotions, or women being more suitable or men being more suitable for any particular role. I think that’s what gogo was referring to in commenting on Stihl waters post -

    Stihl waters wrote: »
    Is it simply that women don't really want careers in the higher paying industries which would sacrifice important years given over to family and children in the same way men don't really want to go into education and nursing and childcare which are lower paying industries simply because some roles are better suited to women and some roles are better suited to men


    The implication being that women are somehow better suited to lower paying roles. I’m not surprised it sounded like something out of the 50’s, it reminded me of a famous employment discrimination case in the 80’s, taken by a woman called Ann Hopkins. I see that same “Catch 22” played out on a daily basis even nowadays though -


    Lower courts upheld Hopkins' claim, but the case eventually reached the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 6-3 in 1989 that Price Waterhouse had, in fact, discriminated based on sex stereotypes. In his lead opinion, Justice William Brennan wrote, "An employer who objects to aggressiveness in women but whose positions require this trait places women in an intolerable and impermissible Catch-22: out of a job if they behave aggressively and out of a job if they don't."


    Essentially, she didn’t act like a woman was expected to act, and was denied the opportunity of a partnership even though she was more suited to the position than any of the men. She also managed to raise her children as a single parent after her marriage ended, and STILL, when she returned to Price Waterhouse, her team became one of the most diverse and profitable in the company.

    I believe it’s commonly referred to as the bigotry of low expectations.


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    #76
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    gogo wrote: »
    The domain of power score is the lowest in Europe, women are still paid approx 14% less than men for the same job and the gap is widening at the moment instead of getting smaller.
    Top job interview questions for women include
    Childcare and appearance for men it’s agility and advancement

    Being on par or better than Europe doesn't make it ok... anything other than equal is rife... no?

    There is no pay gap this has been debunked over and over again, women actually earn more, are educated better and live longer. Stop spouting nonsense because you want to sexually discriminate against men


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    #77
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    gogo wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, did I wake up in 1950 this morning 🀦*♀️

    No you woke up in reality


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    #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gogo wrote: »
    The domain of power score is the lowest in Europe, women are still paid approx 14% less than men for the same job and the gap is widening at the moment instead of getting smaller.

    False


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    #79
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    One eyed Jack wrote: »



    The implication being that women are somehow better suited to lower paying roles. I’m not surprised it sounded like something out of the 50’s, it reminded me of a famous employment discrimination case in the 80’s, taken by a woman called Ann Hopkins. I see that same “Catch 22” played out on a daily basis even nowadays though -


    Lower courts upheld Hopkins' claim, but the case eventually reached the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 6-3 in 1989 that Price Waterhouse had, in fact, discriminated based on sex stereotypes. In his lead opinion, Justice William Brennan wrote, "An employer who objects to aggressiveness in women but whose positions require this trait places women in an intolerable and impermissible Catch-22: out of a job if they behave aggressively and out of a job if they don't."


    Essentially, she didn’t act like a woman was expected to act, and was denied the opportunity of a partnership even though she was more suited to the position than any of the men. She also managed to raise her children as a single parent after her marriage ended, and STILL, when she returned to Price Waterhouse, her team became one of the most diverse and profitable in the company.

    I believe it’s commonly referred to as the bigotry of low expectations.

    Not lower paying roles, just roles where men and women repeatedly throughout history have been doing, if you want to focus on lower paying roles why do it solely on roles which women don't historically go for, could you correlate the implied implication to mean that men typically go for jobs like bin men, labourers, mining, truck drivers, all low paying jobs that women avoid, or is it just high paying jobs that women are discriminated against.

    Fair play to Ann Hopkins, without women like her throughout history that kept nipping at the heels of male hierarchies we wouldn't have the equality in the work place we see today


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    #80
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    gogo wrote: »
    You omitted his point that’s it’s simply because women don’t want careers in high paying industries ....

    Is it so abhorrent to you that some women maybe don't want high end careers, many women forego such careers to have families and make a home, a very valid choice and one a lot of women are very happy doing and the rewards much better than a big salary and executive power


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    #81
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    Abhorrent... who said it was abhorrent? Bit of sensationalism there... As my post above - agree to disagree, it’s Sunday afternoon, after hours debate on feminism is not where I want to be. People can do what they want, my link was from the European Commission 2020 report, your welcome to interrupt it any way you want, and I’ll interrupt it the way I want...


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    #82
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Mansplaining.

    When someone, usually a man, dominates a conversation by using other peoples politeness in not stopping him and telling him he is clueless, pontificate at a junior cert level about a complicated subject that he clearly has no advanced grasp on or clue about. This is almost always done by a man, to a woman, often in a work setting where she is far away his senior and he is often just ‘explaining’ the very basics that everyone knows, while adding nothing but hot air and a pong of self entitlement to the room.
    This, combined with a pomposity and self arrogance that his response should be leapt upon with golden tears of graditude for his precious insights, and perhaps lead him to being awarded a gold medal for new and insightful thought, or at least being dipped in honey and thrown to blindfolded lesbians.

    I also cannot believe the the OP, having apparently lost a conversation on another forum, is now on a new one still teying to prove he was right.

    + women who take time from work should have to prove themselves before being automatically gender selected for stepping back in for promotion. Those 3 or 5 or 8 years they missed - matter.


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    #83
    Dognapper
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Dognapper


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    It’s a Mary Lou classic, what does that tell you

    Mary Lou is a man I reckon


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Mansplaining.

    When someone, usually a man, dominates a conversation by using other peoples politeness in not stopping him and telling him he is clueless, pontificate at a junior cert level about a complicated subject that he clearly has no advanced grasp on or clue about. This is almost always done by a man, to a woman, often in a work setting where she is far away his senior and he is often just ‘explaining’ the very basics that everyone knows, while adding nothing but hot air and a pong of self entitlement to the room.
    This, combined with a pomposity and self arrogance that his response should be leapt upon with golden tears of graditude for his precious insights, and perhaps lead him to being awarded a gold medal for new and insightful thought, or at least being dipped in honey and thrown to blindfolded lesbians.
    r.

    Rubbish


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    #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    Not lower paying roles, just roles where men and women repeatedly throughout history have been doing, if you want to focus on lower paying roles why do it solely on roles which women don't historically go for, could you correlate the implied implication to mean that men typically go for jobs like bin men, labourers, mining, truck drivers, all low paying jobs that women avoid, or is it just high paying jobs that women are discriminated against.

    Correct


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    #86
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    Not lower paying roles, just roles where men and women repeatedly throughout history have been doing, if you want to focus on lower paying roles why do it solely on roles which women don't historically go for, could you correlate the implied implication to mean that men typically go for jobs like bin men, labourers, mining, truck drivers, all low paying jobs that women avoid, or is it just high paying jobs that women are discriminated against.


    I didn’t focus on lower paying roles at all, it’s because you made the correlation in the first place between women and lower paying roles that I pointed out the reason isn’t at all because women are more suited to lower paying roles.

    For what it’s worth btw, teaching and childcare were historically male dominated roles, and it’s only in the last century that primary teaching and childcare have become roles dominated by women, which led to these roles being devalued in society to the point where they have become as low paid as they are.

    Men don’t typically go for jobs like bin men, labourers, miners or truck drivers either, any more than women don’t typically go for them, because while they are actually high paying roles, the reason they’re well paid is because they’re high risk. You don’t see many men clamouring to be prostitutes in pursuit of gender equality either, for the same reasons - it’s high risk and society generally tends to frown on the people who do it.

    It’s simply disingenuous to argue that women don’t go for the same crappy jobs which are dominated by men while ignoring the crappy jobs dominated by women, and STILL try and argue that it’s women’s fault they’re being kept out of top positions solely due to their own lifestyle choices. Kinda reminds me of the effects of the marriage bar even though it was abolished in the 70’s it’s effects are still being felt by women today in the fact that they are being screwed over in terms of their pension entitlements -


    Most marriage-bar women lose out under pension reform


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    #87
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Rubbish

    Precisely the level I am talking about.
    Man much?


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    #88
    Stihl waters
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭Stihl waters


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    It’s simply disingenuous to argue that women don’t go for the same crappy jobs which are dominated by men while ignoring the crappy jobs dominated by women, and STILL try and argue that it’s women’s fault they’re being kept out of top positions solely due to their own lifestyle choices. Kinda reminds me of the effects of the marriage bar even though it was abolished in the 70’s it’s effects are still being felt by women today in the fact that they are being screwed over in terms of their pension entitlements -


    Most marriage-bar women lose out under pension reform

    Describe to me why you think women are being kept out of top positions if you will?


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    #89
    COVID
    Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭COVID


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Rubbish
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Correct

    Certainly couldn't accuse you of mansplaining!


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    #90
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Stihl waters wrote: »
    Describe to me why you think women are being kept out of top positions if you will?


    I already did? They’re kept out of top positions because they’re not expected to be able to achieve the same as men in the same roles.


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    There is no pay gap this has been debunked over and over again, women actually earn more, are educated better and live longer. Stop spouting nonsense because you want to sexually discriminate against men

    Bingo, people look at average earning stats and misinterpret the figures to claim there's some grand conspiracy. I mean, if it was cheaper to hire and pay women, then why wouldn't all these capitalist corporations be doing just that to save millions?

    I've posted a hypothetical situation on boards before, that mansplains the myth.... the let me see if I can dig it out.


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