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Planning Rentention conditions never met ? Valid

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  • 14-10-2020 3:57pm
    #1
    Sull89
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    Hello all

    A neighbour of mine went for retention back in 2014 for changes to their new building. However it has come to light that the retention was granted but as long as they met certain conditions. The neighbours never adhered to those conditions until the rentention expired. Would this retention still be valid if the conditions were never met or breached for such a long period of time?


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    #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Did they comply with the conditions?


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    #3
    Sull89
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Sull89


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Did they comply with the conditions?

    No they never complied with 4 conditions set out on their rentention. We always thought that it was allowed until this year


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    #4
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Sull89 wrote: »
    No they never complied with 4 conditions set out on their rentention. We always thought that it was allowed until this year

    You mentioned in the first post that they didn’t adhere to the conditions until it expired. That implies they adhered, just late.

    If they didn’t meet any of the conditions then you can send an email to the planning enforcement section. Conditions on a planning applications have a different longer statutory timeframe above the 7 year rule as far as i know.


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    #5
    Sull89
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Sull89


    Gumbo wrote: »
    You mentioned in the first post that they didn’t adhere to the conditions until it expired. That implies they adhered, just late.

    If they didn’t meet any of the conditions then you can send an email to the planning enforcement section. Conditions on a planning applications have a different longer statutory timeframe above the 7 year rule as far as i know.


    But if the rentention has expired before the conditions were adhered to , (some still have not been met) then is that retention still valid or would a new application be required ?


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Sull89 wrote: »
    But if the rentention has expired before the conditions were adhered to , (some still have not been met) then is that retention still valid or would a new application be required ?

    Retention doesn’t expire.
    The process is designed to regularize works that have already been completed.
    Sometimes the planners will condition some changes and sometimes they put time limits on them.

    For example I got retention for a client recently and the condition was to to narrow the vehicular entrance within 6 months. Nobody polices this so it’s up to the public to complain or the owner will have to do it to sell.

    Also, recently, I got a separate retention for a 2 storey plus attic conversion. Condition that the contribution /levy has to be paid within 2 weeks of the final grant being issues. Worth noting that not many people know that the 40 Sq. M exemption for levies on the first 40 square meters is lost on retention applications.


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    #7
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,879 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Worth noting that not many people know that the 40 Sq. M exemption for levies on the first 40 square meters is lost on retention applications.
    That would be dependent on extent of the Development Contribution Scheme in force in that particular Local Authority area. For example, here in Donegal domestic extensions of any size are exempt from the scheme.


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    #8
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    muffler wrote: »
    That would be dependent on extent of the Development Contribution Scheme in force in that particular Local Authority area. For example, here in Donegal domestic extensions of any size are exempt from the scheme.

    Apologies, yes. Sometimes I’m blinkered that Dublin = Ireland :D


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    #9
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,879 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Apologies, yes. Sometimes I’m blinkered that Dublin = Ireland :D
    The thought never crossed my mind :P


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    #10
    Gabes2016
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Gabes2016


    The question here is, retention compliance was never achieved, so one would argue that the retention has never been granted.
    Planning permission has 5 years for work to be started, if the enduser decides not to start works within this period the planning permission is revoked.
    Rentention is given on the basis that the conditions be implemented. If the conditions have never been fulfilled ie all 4. Then does this mean that the retention is null and void ?
    I notice on the specific case the planning authority have an end date on the document of 5 years.

    Its an interesting one if you look at this from a legal perspective


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    #11
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Gabes2016 wrote: »
    The question here is, retention compliance was never achieved, so one would argue that the retention has never been granted.
    Planning permission has 5 years for work to be started, if the enduser decides not to start works within this period the planning permission is revoked.
    Rentention is given on the basis that the conditions be implemented. If the conditions have never been fulfilled ie all 4. Then does this mean that the retention is null and void ?
    I notice on the specific case the planning authority have an end date on the document of 5 years.

    Its an interesting one if you look at this from a legal perspective

    Normal planning has 5 years and 45 days to commence. The 45 days are the 9 bank holidays. The key word here is commence.

    In a retention application, the works are already complete. So if the planner doesn’t condition a timeframe then what’s the legal implications of that?


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    #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,227 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    it would be unusual for a condition on a retention permission not to be time limited:
    ie "within a period of xx years starting from the date of this permission, works XYZ need to be carried out"

    however if they are not time limited it could be arguable that they are open ended, and could be complied with at any time.

    personally, if the non compliance of the conditions affected me in a significant manner, id be onto the council straight away, as technically the development is still unauthorised until those conditions are complied with.


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