US Presidential Election 2020

So if trump refuses to take part in the virtual debate what happens

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So if trump refuses to take part in the virtual debate what happens

Where things currently stand:

- Commission moved next week to virtual
- Trump refused to take part
- Biden then proposed and Trump agreed to push the town hall style debate back to the 22nd
- Trump team now also wants the 3rd debate to be pushed to the following week, the 29th, a few days before the election
- Biden's team is refusing to that idea as Trump backed out of one and shouldn't get to move everyone's calendar (also it is obviously very risky for the clear front runner to have a debate a few days before the election)

Biden would be better off cancelling altogether than allowing trump a “free hit” days before the vote

Can you imagine the absolute horse crap trump will shovel in that final debate ...

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where things currently stand:

- Commission moved next week to virtual
- Trump refused to take part
- Biden then proposed and Trump agreed to push the town hall style debate back to the 22nd
- Trump team now also wants the 3rd debate to be pushed to the following week, the 29th, a few days before the election
- Biden's team is refusing to that idea as Trump backed out of one and shouldn't get to move everyone's calendar (also it is obviously very risky for the clear front runner to have a debate a few days before the election)

And the whole reason is simple, Trump is not well and they know he won't be able for rigorous debate for 90 minutes. They are looking for (literally) breathing space hoping he recovers enough to get through the 90 minutes.

eire4 wrote: »

Ahh right those corporate Democrats help people. Lets be specific rich people. Utterly risible to imply they help the vast majority American people economically.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/income-inequality-obama-bush_n_1419008?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKx8YdxFU0guGZbQxUzDzDc8Mk09yJTxb_mxOV4Wpj-k08BpaycUtTVJitVjMxPDoAD1lx2IlkWFmUb7Mt_7cAe1FxMcEW8fvZt4ywLIdfE5lWA-3D_2C-aFY5D873v-4p7RUFo0U7OFNFic8cQTqWVOMNp1xE2o-019vShixn6e

Under the economic policies of the Friedmanites AKA know as Reganomics Republicans and the Corporate Democrats with their economic polices income inequality has been getting worse and worse in the US for decades.

'Ahh right', ignore Biden's policy to increase taxes on corporations and tax individuals earning over $400k, the increase in those with healthcare thanks to the ACA, or the climate deals and regulations signed etc etc

Being 'pure' in your ideals will be great comfort when GOP appointed supreme court gets rid of Roe v Wade and gut gay marriage rights.

At this stage I'm well aware that you'd prefer to watch the US, and everyone in it, burn if it led to Bernie ruling the ashes than see a 'corporate democrat' win. I'm not getting into another long debate with you on the selfishness of that perspective.

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Criticising socialists for struggling to achieve actual benefits to the American citizen, when they have stacked against them billion dollar industries, andl politicians eager to suck on the teat.

Risible viewpoint

More risible to me is sitting on the ditch hurling insults at people working within the current system to try to make actual improvements in the lives of people.

If there is a choice of someone offering the world and succeeding in nothing or offering less and actually likely to achieve it, I'd go with the latter every time.

eire4 wrote: »

No purity tests for me. I just won't support candidates that clearly won't do what's best for the vast majority of Americans. How dare I push for an economy that lifts all boats and gives opportunity structurally to all rather then just the wealthy and powerful. As for the US burning. No I do not want t see the US burning quite the opposite. I would love to see a vibrant and positive US. But continuing with alternating between the horrific economic polices that the Republicans have foisted on the country and that Corporate Democrats have as well is the reason that the US is the joke that it is now.

I'd have some sympathy with your position - installing Harris (darling of the Hamptons set) as VP was a particularly nauseating move by the Corporate Dems.

However, in this one instance there is no choice - Trump has to be removed, and voting Biden is the only way to do it.

But sure, down the ballot vote for those closer to your position, and ensure that the corporates are ousted at the next primaries - like what AOC did.

serfboard wrote: »

I'd have some sympathy with your position - installing Harris (darling of the Hamptons set) as VP was a particularly nauseating move by the Corporate Dems.

However, in this one instance there is no choice - Trump has to be removed, and voting Biden is the only way to do it.

But sure, down the ballot vote for those closer to your position, and ensure that the corporates are ousted at the next primaries - like what AOC did.

I totally agree with you that this president has to go. No question what so ever. All I am pointing out is that I have given up on believing the corporate Democrats since Obama had me fooled. More of the same as I said alternating between Corporate Democrats and the Republicans has lead the US to where it is today and the joke that it is. I agree this president has to go. Given the circumstances I hope Biden is the US president come next January but I am not fooled into thinking he is the answer and I will continue to push back against Corporate Democrats and not give them a pass because they are the lesser of 2 evils because regardless of how true that is that is still not going to stop the decline of the US.

Obama had good ideas, and good intentions but he ran into the political machine himself. He used up all of his political capital for the ACA (which was a very different bill by the time it got out of committee) and after that he had a republican house and senate to contend with that had a clearly defined plan of non cooperation.

Quite sad what happened when the people voted for change alright and you could argue the people voted for change this time around too (not as many people but enough to win the EC) and they have got nothing but more of the same, only worse and more brazen and craven.

Kind of like a wheel, until something comes along to break it the cycle will continue, it will just go round and round. The swamp as it's affectionately known is safe enough for the time being.

Foxtrol wrote: »

It says it all that you didn't or couldn't acknowledge any of positive things I highlighted that was recently done by 'Corporate Democrats' or the very likely negative outcomes for many groups if the GOP gets back in power.

If it isn't the 'pure' way you demand you simply don't care about the people impacted, whether it is positively or negatively.

You talked about the polices Biden says he will enact that would be great if and when he becomes president. I addressed that clearly. Obama and other corporate Democrats have a long history of saying nice things but the doing is a whole different ball game. I gave up believing what comes out of corporate Democrats mouths after Obama.

As for the supreme court overturning abortion rights and or anything else that is as a result of the 2016 election not this one.

As for your purity obsession again not me. Your the one obsessed with continuing an economic system alternating between Friedmanite Republicans and Corporate Democrats which has made the economic lives of the vast majority of Americans worse and will continue to do so. How dare I rail against that and push for an economy that structurally gives all opportunity and is fair economically to all not just the wealthy and powerful.

It is the classic hubris of the coporate Democrats that they think because they are the lesser of 2 evils they can just get the votes and get into power and maintain the corrupt duopoly on power that is DC currently ad infinitum.

Foxtrol wrote: »

The problem is that if you can't break the wheel on a given cycle, you can either help it move somewhat in the direction you want it to go or sulk and do nothing, risking it moving in the opposite direction than you want.

I just don't and will probably never understand that latter mindset, it is both self sabotaging as well as completely inconsiderate of others.

That is premised on the assumption that corporate Democrats make things better which the last few decades they economically have not done overall they have instead made things worse. Income inequality got worse under Obama and has continually got worse under Fredmanite Republicans and corporate Democrats for decades. Are corporate Democrats the lesser of 2 evils yes absolutely. But they have played their part in bringing American to the pathetic state it is in today as well.

eire4 wrote: »

You talked about the polices Biden says he will enact that would be great if and when he becomes president. I addressed that clearly. Obama and other corporate Democrats have a long history of saying nice things but the doing is a whole different ball game. I gave up believing what comes out of corporate Democrats mouths after Obama.

As for the supreme court overturning abortion rights and or anything else that is as a result of the 2016 election not this one.

As for your purity obsession again not me. Your the one obsessed with continuing an economic system alternating between Friedmanite Republicans and Corporate Democrats which has made the economic lives of the vast majority of Americans worse and will continue to do so. How dare I rail against that and push for an economy that structurally gives all opportunity and is fair economically to all not just the wealthy and powerful.

It is the classic hubris of the coporate Democrats that they think because they are the lesser of 2 evils they can just get the votes and get into power and maintain the corrupt duopoly on power that is DC currently ad infinitum.

I'll re-post this quick bullet points of what Obama achieved. He promised more but to me the US was in a much better place thanks to what he achieved than if Romney or McCain were president.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/januaryfebruary-2017/obamas-top-50-accomplishments-revisited/

Your mindset is like that of a child who didn't get the exact toy they wanted for Christmas so they refuse to appreciate the gifts they did receive, when they could have gotten coal.

We're going around in circles again. You've shown you simply don't care about the people that have seen benefits to their lives because of things 'Corporate Democrats' have done, whereas I see how much better things are under them than the GOP (despite not being everything I'd wish). Our point of views are clear

Student loan affordability act. Every single Republican voted against it, every Democrat voted for it https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/44550

Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding, all but one Republican voted against it, all Democrats for https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/9034

Employment Non-Discrimination Act of 2013, all but one Republican against, all Democrats for https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/46286

Paycheck fairness act, all Republicans against, all but one Democrat for https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/32830

End the bureau of consumer financial protection, all but one Republican for, all but one Democrat against https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/30296

Thanks just a sampling. For 40 years now the Republicans through the media have tried to convince people that the Democrats don't care about the little guy, that both parties are essentially two sides of the same coin etc etc. Reality is that is complete horse-s**t. The difference between both parties couldn't be more stark.

rossie1977 wrote: »

Student loan affordability act. Every single Republican voted against it, every Democrat voted for it https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/44550

Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding, all but one Republican voted against it, all Democrats for https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/9034

Employment Non-Discrimination Act of 2013, all but one Republican against, all Democrats for https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/46286

Paycheck fairness act, all Republicans against, all but one Democrat for https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/32830

End the bureau of consumer financial protection, all but one Republican for, all but one Democrat against https://justfacts.votesmart.org/bill/votes/30296

Thanks just a sampling. For 40 years now the Republicans through the media have tried to convince people that the Democrats don't care about the little guy, that both parties are essentially two sides of the same coin etc etc. Reality is that is complete horse-s**t. The difference between both parties couldn't be more stark.

Agreed. The Republicans at this point have lurched so far to the right economically they are utterly owned and paid for and take care of the economic interests of the very richest and most powerful of Americans. No question the Democrats are nowhere near that level. But they nonetheless are a centre right party economically who govern economically in a manner that takes care of the rich and wealth just a larger proportion of Americans say the top 20% or so. The reality of continual income inequality growth shows that overall. They have shown little interest in changing the economy in a structural way through taxation and other means to make the lives of the vast majority of Americans better.

The Dodd-Frank act ( of which the consumer protection bureau was a part of) after the financial crash is a classic example .Was that a step in the right direct yes absolutely. Was that better then what the Republicans wanted and or would have done again yes absolutely. But they refused to reinstate the Glass Steagall act which separated investment banking and retail banking. Thus allowing the massive banks to just get bigger and bigger then they were before the crash and continue to behave in risky ways albeit with some restrictions. I should also add here it was another Corporate Democrat Bill Clinton who signed into law the bill that ended Glass Steagall and set the ball rolling for the financial collapse of 2008.