Torture, in exceptional circumstances

Kylta · 24-09-2020 1:57pm #1

The vast majority of people are against torture (I think).
But say you had a serial child killer in prison, who would not give up were they buried the bodies of his victims so the families could buried their loved ones.
If you could sign off on him being tortured by the state or an independent body, until he revealed the whereabouts of bodies. (Again the persons guilt is unquestionable!)
Would you personally sign off on it?

24-09-2020 1:59pm

If a member of my family was the victim, absolutely. Otherwise no.

This is why we don't allow decisions to be made by people who would act emotionally.

Kylta · 24-09-2020 2:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If a member of my family was the victim, absolutely. Otherwise no.

This is why we don't allow decisions to be made by people who would act emotionally.

What if it was the neighbours child. Or your childs classmate?

Anybody emotionally involved in torture wouldn't be thinking straight anyway. Your first thought might be to retrieve the missing body, but your main thought would be vengeance

gifted · 24-09-2020 2:04pm

Don't think so......just lock them up in a cell for the rest of his/her life for 24hrs a day......no exercise...no contact with anyone else.....I think that's torture enough. Deservedly though

Kylta · 24-09-2020 2:06pm

gifted wrote: »

Don't think so......just lock them up in a cell for the rest of his/her life for 24hrs a day......no exercise...no contact with anyone else.....I think that's torture enough.

Thats agreeable but how do resolve the issue of the missing bodies? And suppose one of the missing is related to your family?

jam_mac_jam · 24-09-2020 2:09pm

No. I wouldn't sign off on it. It's never justified and in many cases doesn't give good information.

In the example sited it would give you the information, but has that ever happened, is it likely to happen? Also the people are dead already so no.

It's not for civilised countries to do.

Quantum Erasure · 24-09-2020 2:10pm

What defines 'exceptional'...? In this case were looking for the certain location of dead bodies, would the probable knowledge of the location of a live bomb count?

In reality it probably happens all the time, anyway

Feisar · 24-09-2020 2:14pm

Wasn't there a film/mini series a few years back where bombs were planted and they were trying to get the info out of the bombers as to where the bombs were (on timers). The end justifies the means and all that.

Or if someone has unsolicited bum bum sex with ya:

Royal Irish · 24-09-2020 2:14pm

I'd be in favor of enhanced interrogation being used like sleep deprivation, water boarding, etc. But no pulling finger nails or anything barbaric like that.

Feisar · 24-09-2020 2:15pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

What defines 'exceptional'...? In this case were looking for the certain location of dead bodies, would the probable knowledge of the location of a live bomb count?

In reality it probably happens all the time, anyway

Beat me to it on the live bomb.

Oranage2 · 24-09-2020 2:17pm

And who'd do the torturing?

I couldn't condone actions I wouldn't do myself.

Dravokivich · 24-09-2020 2:17pm

Torture isn't likely to give you the information you want. All it does, is allow you to play out your frustration, due to not getting any information or punishing the interviewee for being uncooperative. Which is what happened in "Prisoners," as the viewer knows, the one being tortured, is also a victim of the kidnappers being chased down.

Pauliedragon · 24-09-2020 2:20pm

Nothing to do with torture but in Australia they brought in laws a while back which meant if you were convicted of murder with no body you never get parole unless you reveal where the body is.

Rhyme · 24-09-2020 2:20pm

If they are the kind of person to kill children, then they might get a buzz out of stringing along an investigation and sending them off to dig in the wrong place.

Torturing them would be more likely get them to clam up and say nothing or do what torture has done in the past, get the person to say what they think the person wants to hear rather than anything useful. Victims of torture have been known to admit to crimes that they didn't commit and invent entire stories to avoid being tortured.

There's a good book called Mindhunter by John E. Douglas (TV show came after) where they detail getting information from psychopaths and serial killers and it's never as simple as kicking the crap out them (as therapeutic as that may be for the person doing it).

Feisar · 24-09-2020 2:25pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

And who'd do the torturing?

I couldn't condone actions I wouldn't do myself.

The torture squad? Couple of coked up ex ra heads? I dunno I'm sure if we scrapped the barrel we'd find a few suitable operatives.

Dravokivich · 24-09-2020 2:25pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Nothing to do with torture but in Australia they brought in laws a while back which meant if you were convicted of murder with no body you never get parole unless you reveal where the body is.

That's no use for someone wrongly convicted of murder.

Gregor Samsa · 24-09-2020 2:38pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's no use for someone wrongly convicted of murder.

Yeah, but neither is the parole process. You don't get parole because you were wrongly convicted - if you can show that you're wrongly convicted, your conviction is overturned, and you're released outright.

Gatling · 24-09-2020 2:42pm

Advanced interrogation .

If you refuse to give up the location of a body then you do not leave prison ,

o1s1n · 24-09-2020 3:33pm

Royal Irish wrote: »

I'd be in favor of enhanced interrogation being used like sleep deprivation, water boarding, etc. But no pulling finger nails or anything barbaric like that.

I'd consider those things torture tbh. 'Advanced interrogation' reads too much like a Bush administration buzz phrase.

Ever see when Christopher Hitchens elected to have it done? He barely lasted a second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

Talking about it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2EptxXczx4

Zebra3 · 24-09-2020 3:33pm

Royal Irish wrote: »

I'd be in favor of enhanced interrogation being used like sleep deprivation, water boarding, etc. But no pulling finger nails or anything barbaric like that.

Water boarding a bit of craic, then?

granturismo · 24-09-2020 3:43pm

Royal Irish wrote: »

I'd be in favor of enhanced interrogation being used like sleep deprivation, water boarding, etc. But no pulling finger nails or anything barbaric like that.

How did ecnhanced interrogation work out for The Hooded Men.

JohnnyFlash · 24-09-2020 3:48pm

You’ve never heard my ex-wife nagging.

Pauliedragon · 24-09-2020 3:53pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's no use for someone wrongly convicted of murder.

I agree but torture won't help either if the person is innocent and genuinely doesn't know where the body is.

MFPM · 24-09-2020 3:58pm

There is no argument for torture legal or moral in my view. Quite apart from anything else there are many studies that indicate the unreliability of of information gleaned from torture methods.

MFPM · 24-09-2020 4:01pm

Royal Irish wrote: »

I'd be in favor of enhanced interrogation being used like sleep deprivation, water boarding, etc. But no pulling finger nails or anything barbaric like that.

Like the US military used against innocent people across their torture camps in the Middle East and in Gunatanamo...Look where that got them.

Gatling · 24-09-2020 4:03pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Water boarding a bit of craic, then?

Should give it a go.

Waterboarding with pints is a laugh

jam_mac_jam · 24-09-2020 4:04pm

Water boarding is horrific torture and is not justified to get information. Japanese soldiers were convicted of war crimes due to it's use in WW2.

Yet now it's just a light torture. Also used by the Gestapo, but maybe they had exceptional reasons too.

El_Duderino 09 · 24-09-2020 4:09pm

Royal Irish wrote: »

I'd be in favor of enhanced interrogation being used like sleep deprivation, water boarding, etc. But no pulling finger nails or anything barbaric like that.

What's the difference between those types of torture? what makes one type of torture a good idea and the other type of torture a bad idea?

TheBlackPill · 24-09-2020 4:16pm

Sleep deprivation is probably the best to get people to give up information.
Waterboarding is very quick in getting somebody to submit and talk,, but they will say anything to prevent further waterboarding, so the information is useless unless used to corroborate something already known.
Torture is useless anyway. A well briefed, skilled interrogator(or team) is the way to go.
I suggest most torture is really just a power trip for the torturer dressed up as being necessary to prevent loss of life etc

Ten of Swords · 24-09-2020 4:25pm

Feisar wrote: »

Wasn't there a film/mini series a few years back where bombs were planted and they were trying to get the info out of the bombers as to where the bombs were (on timers). The end justifies the means and all that

Unthinkable

Michael Sheen tortured by Samuel L Jackson for the location of a nuclear bomb

Gregor Samsa · 24-09-2020 4:36pm

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Sleep deprivation is probably the best to get people to give up information.

I don't know, I don't tend to make much sense when I'm tired.

Torture, in exceptional circumstances

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