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Rival charities set up new super charity scam

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    #62
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    complains that there are too many charities with overlapping expenses and then complains when charities come together to save costs. Never change Boards.ie, never change

    He probably wouldn’t be complaining if they had ‘come together to save costs’ years ago rather than continuing with the previous approach up to now.


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    #63
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭touts


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    The issue is less the ceo salaries and more the duplication and bloat.

    A CEO on 100k running a foreign aid charity - no issue.

    20 CEOs on 100k running 20 foreign aid charities - that's an issue.

    The CEOs are a major problem. But don't forget the masses of staff under them. Take The Fr Peter McVerry Trust for example. Their accounts a couple of years ago showed the following:

    They had expenditure of €28 million in 2018. €20 million of that went on wages. €20 million!

    They portray themselves as this plucky little charity fighting for the poor people of Dublin by buying houses and giving aid etc. But €20 million out of 28 million went on salaries. It's just another trough for a small clique to stick their snouts into. And they are the small guys. The 6 charities who are setting up this latest scam operate on multiples of this.


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    #64
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    complains that there are too many charities with overlapping expenses and then complains when charities come together to save costs. Never change Boards.ie, never change


    It's good that they are coming together. It would be better still if they amalgamated permanently in order to maintain the efficiencies and cut out the duplication that they are seeking to achieve through this enterprise. But one organisation would only require one CEO.


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    #65
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭touts


    antix80 wrote: »
    I don't see any mention of a super-charity with an extra CEO.

    It sounds like they're actually trying to cut down on advertising and admin costs for this particular "alliance".. the organisations likely have people on-the-ground in those countries, but may not have sufficient infrastructure for fundraising/advertising/processing and distributing donations.

    Seems more likely this will cut down on admin costs rather than increase them. One ad campaign instead of 5.

    I don't know how you twisted the article so much to suit whatever narrative you're pedalling. I don't know much about these charities but from the names I think they're Christian ethos charities so that might be why you're so negative about them.

    Don't be so naive. They will just use this new organization as another outlet to funnel more money to their friends and associates. They won't cut their own admin and marketing costs etc. After all they are still rivals.

    What is needed it the government to call the six of these into a room and tell them only one of them will be allowed to raise any more money and it's up to them to decide which one. Then lock the door and livestream the resulting negotiations to the nation.


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    #66
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,543 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    and the ever more likely 1 CEO running 3 charities on 100k per charity all from the same desk.

    Can you point to any actual examples of this happening please?


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    #67
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,543 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    €7.7bn of the irish charity industry's €14.5bn annual income comes from the government so if you pay tax you can be happy in the knowledge that you are already contributing.

    So presumably you'd prefer the Government to directly employ all the staff that provide services to people with disabilities, older people, homeless people and more, instead of outsourcing these services to charities?


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    #68
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,543 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    they share a building with amnesty international and a few other charities, the staff work between them, its just Colm o Gormans pockets being lined.

    What exactly are you alleging here? Are you saying that Colm O'Gorman owns the building himself?


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    #69
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I volunteer with a charity.
    Nobody gets paid. Nobody.
    Everyone we give help to is checked out to make sure they are deserving and that they are not getting the same help from other local charities.
    Our local funds are raised by running golf classics, quiz nights, bingo, bag packing and food appeals. We produce a talking newspaper for the blind to keep them in touch with local news.
    We make up hundreds of food parcels for deserving families at Christmas and deliver them in our own cars.
    Every penny is accounted for.

    Support your local Lions Club.


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    #70
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    What exactly are you alleging here? Are you saying that Colm O'Gorman owns the building himself?

    No im saying that there are atleast 3 , i think 4 charities in one building on fleet street, they share a canteen, meeting rooms etc... i would be shocked if colm isnt profiting off the others.


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    #71
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭blackbox


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So presumably you'd prefer the Government to directly employ all the staff that provide services to people with disabilities, older people, homeless people and more, instead of outsourcing these services to charities?

    I'd far prefer this and get rid of the charities altogether except for those with no paid employees (i.e all volunteers).

    That's the way it should be in a first world country.


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    #72
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,235 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    No im saying that there are atleast 3 , i think 4 charities in one building on fleet street, they share a canteen, meeting rooms etc... i would be shocked if colm isnt profiting off the others.

    so no specific allegation just a general "he must be at it"


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    #73
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    No im saying that there are atleast 3 , i think 4 charities in one building on fleet street, they share a canteen, meeting rooms etc... i would be shocked if colm isnt profiting off the others.
    In fairness Eric, the confirmed stuff in plain sight is shocking enough without the guess work, even if you could well be right


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    #74
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,570 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Unless you want a state run “super charity” you can’t force smaller charities together. The reason there are so many is that they all have a different “ethos”. You even need different Garda vetting if you want to volunteer for different ones.

    Imagine if a charity was set up to look after straight males. One charity and a number of CA “stalwarts” were involved. How long do you think it would be before a second charity was started, by the aforementioned CA lads, that catered exclusively for straight white males? Then another for straight white Irish males?

    You can see how you end up with multiple charities covering similar ground.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #75
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,164 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Peregrinus wrote: »

    My point is that a charity whose mission is mainly providing services will always spend a significant part of its budget on staff.

    Not if they are volunteers.


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    #76
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Can you point to any actual examples of this happening please?

    The wheel , which has its office in the same building as amnesty has on its board the head of the irish hospice foundation, the head of NALA and the head of womens aid ireland / former CEO of ruhama ,
    Thats just one, theyre all in bed together. These board positions are paid.


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    #77
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    No im saying that there are atleast 3 , i think 4 charities in one building on fleet street, they share a canteen, meeting rooms etc... i would be shocked if colm isnt profiting off the others.

    When you go through amnestys financial report for 2018 they list their rental income as 120k. So all the boys are paying rent, rent that comes from Government funding. Interesting...


    https://www.amnesty.ie/who-we-are/how-were-run/


    Another company at that address is wheel.ie. They get 1.2m of funding from government and the EU.

    https://www.wheel.ie/about-us/governance-finance


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    #78
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    Unless you want a state run “super charity” you can’t force smaller charities together. The reason there are so many is that they all have a different “ethos”. You even need different Garda vetting if you want to volunteer for different ones.

    Imagine if a charity was set up to look after straight males. One charity and a number of CA “stalwarts” were involved. How long do you think it would be before a second charity was started, by the aforementioned CA lads, that catered exclusively for straight white males? Then another for straight white Irish males?

    You can see how you end up with multiple charities covering similar ground.

    That's fine if they're surviving on people's generosity. But if they want large amounts of taxpayers' money funding them then they should have to demonstrate value for money to the taxpayer by pursuing savings and efficiencies rather than persisting with widespread duplication of resources, high executive pay and opaque appointment processes.


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    #79
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Nice dig Emmet but with income in excess of the Apple tax pot annually, you know the figures are astounding.

    At some point the raison d'etre of the charity industry morphs from 'the cause' to sustaining the livelihoods of 189,000 citizens and their families or at very least the lines become heavily blurred.

    Too big to fail comes to mind. If we take this example of 6 amalgamating into 1 and expand it industry wide...that could be 100,000 people out of work.


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    #80
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    That's fine if they're surviving on people's generosity. But if they want large amounts of taxpayers' money funding them then they should have to demonstrate value for money to the taxpayer by pursuing savings and efficiencies rather than persisting with widespread duplication of resources, high executive pay and opaque appointment processes.

    Well said


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    #81
    Bellbottoms
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Bellbottoms


    sunshinew wrote: »
    it's easy enough to find out what each CEO is paid.

    Are they explicit required to list how much the CEO makes. I did try to look up how much Dublin charity Inner City Helping Homeless. There accounts can be found on the Charities Regulators. But I couldn't see how much they were paying there one employee.


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    #82
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Bellbottoms wrote: »
    Are they explicit required to list how much the CEO makes.

    No. They have to show salary bands for key employees and that would include the CEO's salary.
    if they only have one salary it should appear under wages and salaries.


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    #83
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    Unless you want a state run “super charity” you can’t force smaller charities together. The reason there are so many is that they all have a different “ethos”. You even need different Garda vetting if you want to volunteer for different ones.

    Imagine if a charity was set up to look after straight males. One charity and a number of CA “stalwarts” were involved. How long do you think it would be before a second charity was started, by the aforementioned CA lads, that catered exclusively for straight white males? Then another for straight white Irish males?

    You can see how you end up with multiple charities covering similar ground.

    Its interesting that you picked that fictitious agenda. Do you think theres anyone only giving out about charities sucking money from the government and gullible people to pay ceo’s because of their political alignment ?


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    #84
    Bellbottoms
    Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Bellbottoms


    antix80 wrote: »
    No. They have to show salary bands for key employees and that would include the CEO's salary.
    if they only have one salary it should appear under wages and salaries.

    Nothing recording wages or salaries.


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    #85
    VillageIdiot71
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Some interesting information here:
    https://www.benefacts.ie/insights/reports/2020/funding/

    The State is the biggest individual source of funding to the nonprofit sector, but nearly 80% of State funding is directed at 119 medium and large nonprofits, mostly in service fees to health and social care, higher education and local development.
    Some of these bodies are largely State funded, and yet still create the impression that they are funding work by donations supplemented by volunteers.

    They engage in advocacy on issues, as if they didn't have a vested interest in getting more funding from the State.

    And, presumably, then include the GAA in the sector statistics so they can mouth off about volunteerism and pretend that they're raising the bulk of their own funds.

    And they get away with it, mostly.


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    #86
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Geuze wrote: »
    Ethiopia has an Air Force with 24 combat aircraft.

    Our Aer Corps has no combat aircraft, AFAIK.

    Their Army has battle tanks, AFAIK we have none.


    And we are expected to pay them charity?!!

    If you think thats bad - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Ethiopian_Renaissance_Dam


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    #87
    dublin49
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭dublin49


    I am convinced in general charities in this country exist primarily for the betterment of the founders /trustees etc.Generally populated by failed politicans or wannabee business people looking for an easy road to a very comfortable lifestyle.They place heart rendering causes in front of us and carry out occasional acts of charity while living well and taking renumeration in line with business norms when their sector is no way comparable,their contribution to society is questionable because if they dissappeared the govenment would have to provide simliar services in a much more co ordinated manner.I accept there are genuine well meaning people involved in charity work but in general in my opinion they are being misled and mis - used for the provision of personal gain of a gilded minority who need no charity.


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    #88
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,267 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bellbottoms wrote: »
    Are they explicit required to list how much the CEO makes. I did try to look up how much Dublin charity Inner City Helping Homeless. There accounts can be found on the Charities Regulators. But I couldn't see how much they were paying there one employee.

    Yes, charities are required to publish how much the CEO is earning and to place the remaining staff into categories.


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    #89
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Approximately 10,000 registered charities in 2019 and a population of approximately 5 million people....so 1 charity per 500 head of population...sorry but that is pure madness.


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    #90
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    There would seem to be an awful lot of duplication when there are 10,000 charities. But a massive amount of them are mom and pop operations, things like parents losing a child to suicide and they set up a foundation to make charitable donations in their childs name. Or charities focused on very rare medical diseases set up by the parents because their child has it and cant get adequate funding through normal channels.

    One point though- blaming charities for the privatisation of services that the State used to provide is incorrect. It was politicians who made these decisions to privatise services that the State used to provide in the first place. Its the politicians in power who created this situation, not the charities.


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    #91
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    One point though- blaming charities for the privatisation of services that the State used to provide is incorrect. It was politicians who made these decisions to privatise services that the State used to provide in the first place. Its the politicians in power who created this situation, not the charities.

    The sector does plenty to ensure its own relevance, including but not limited to giving politicians the golden parachute of well remunerated senior positions in charities when they punch out at Leinster House.

    Trying to cast the Angela Kerins of this world as passive victims of circumstances outside their control is a bit rich.


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