Can we pool our knowledge regarding TAX and crypto and make some kind of FAQ/sticky?

xabi · 22-04-2018 10:35PM

That’s what I thought, but, I’ve read that you pay CGT on every transaction.

grindle · 22-04-2018 10:41PM

xabi wrote: »

That’s what I thought, but, I’ve read that you pay CGT on every transaction.

You do. Or you can realise fiat losses while still growing the crypto-stack. I'm not sure how that's at odds with what I've said. Your ZIL may have trebled in price but unless you've sold it for a profit there's zero gain to speak of. It could be half that price tomorrow.

Peregrinus · 23-04-2018 02:22AM

xabi wrote: »

What I did was, buy 4K worth of ETH on Coinbase, Transfered all the ETH to Binance and bought ZIL. This was 2 months ago, the ZIL has nearly trebled in price at a this stage, so when do I owe the CGT? 31/12/18? When is the profit calculated for CGT? That’s the part I don’t understand.

grindle wrote: »

You don't owe anything on the ZIL until you realise the gain.

You don't owe anything on the ZIL until you dispose of the ZIL, but you may owe something on the ETH because you have disposed of it. Did ETH rise in value between the time you acquired your ETH on Coinbase and sold them on Binance?

GreeBo · 23-04-2018 08:29AM

xabi wrote: »

That’s what I thought, but, I’ve read that you pay CGT on every transaction.

You pay on the selling txn, not the buying...if that helps?

xabi · 23-04-2018 09:03AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

You don't owe anything on the ZIL until you dispose of the ZIL, but you may owe something on the ETH because you have disposed of it. Did ETH rise in value between the time you acquired your ETH on Coinbase and sold them on Binance?

No idea if the ETH changed as it was all completed in a few minutes, would the charges for the transfer offset any small gains?

Peregrinus · 23-04-2018 09:17AM

xabi wrote: »

No idea if the ETH changed as it was all completed in a few minutes, would the charges for the transfer offset any small gains?

if the gains were small enough, yes. But one of the notable features of cryptocurrencies is that tehy can be extremely volatile, so the possibility of large gains in a short period is there.

.G. · 28-04-2018 10:11AM

https://cointelegraph.com/news/france-crypto-is-now-moveable-property-tax-down-from-45-to-19-percent/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Interesting approach from France.

ZeroThreat · 28-04-2018 04:18PM

superg wrote: »

https://cointelegraph.com/news/france-crypto-is-now-moveable-property-tax-down-from-45-to-19-percent/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Interesting approach from France.

Knowing the authorities here, they're more likely to seek higher tax rates specific to crypto.

relax carry on · 15-05-2018 02:56PM

Revenue have issued an update to the tax and duty manual regarding cryptocurrency.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-02/02-01-03.pdf

thegolfer · 15-05-2018 03:44PM

relax carry on wrote: »

Revenue have issued an update to the tax and duty manual regarding cryptocurrency.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-02/02-01-03.pdf

Nothing new there....

Queue the questions on what if.....

ZeroThreat · 15-05-2018 04:14PM

xabi wrote: »

No idea if the ETH changed as it was all completed in a few minutes, would the charges for the transfer offset any small gains?

Is there any actual resource available out there that gives the historical prices on each cryptocurrency right down to the hour and minute of any particular date?

Also, would you be using the 'global' price at disposal of the Eth, or price at that date, hour, minute on the exchange it was originally purchased on?

Edit - The information about valuation from the revenue update seems pretty vague about these issues tbh.

'4. Valuation of cryptocurrencies

Many cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin, are traded on a number of exchanges. Unlike shares
or commodities the value of the cryptocurrencies may vary between exchanges. Therefore,
there is not always a single “exchange rate” for cryptocurrencies. A reasonable effort should
be made to use an appropriate valuation for the transaction in question.'

cysv · 10-07-2018 08:09PM

Read through 72 pages and found a lot of answers, Thank you for that.

But still have couple questions regarding failing paying CGT on time:

1. For the ones that did not pay lets say in 2017 and submitted CGT only autumn 2018, what was surcharge/penalty? What % to expect?

2. I know that some was asking the above question before and answer was that it depends on the amount of tax to be paid, like if it small amount than Revenue can let it go, but if it bigger amounts than you have bigger problems. Question here would be, what is 'big amount', like are we speaking about 10-90k as big amount or 100k-10kk?

3. Lets say I come to Revenue and say that I own that amount as CGT and I am default, can I ask to pay monthly for some period of time? E.g. like for 2 years? Not the whole lump sum. Is there any agreement like that can be achieved with Revenue?

4. Can Revenue ease penalties based on that I novice to this kind of things and I wanted to use money for my own property deposit?

5. Fat thinger problem: I wanted to sell 100 coins, but put 1000 accidently, when I spot I already sold 500 of coins, I cancelled order and bought back 400 at the same minute. Thing is that market was at downtrend, so I bought back a bit cheaper. Is there a way to convince Revenue that my itention was not to dispose 500 coins and it was fat thinger problem?

Thank you for your help.

thegolfer · 10-07-2018 10:23PM

cysv wrote: »

Read through 72 pages and found a lot of answers, Thank you for that.

But still have couple questions regarding failing paying CGT on time:

1. For the ones that did not pay lets say in 2017 and submitted CGT only autumn 2018, what was surcharge/penalty? What % to expect?

2. I know that some was asking the above question before and answer was that it depends on the amount of tax to be paid, like if it small amount than Revenue can let it go, but if it bigger amounts than you have bigger problems. Question here would be, what is 'big amount', like are we speaking about 10-90k as big amount or 100k-10kk?

3. Lets say I come to Revenue and say that I own that amount as CGT and I am default, can I ask to pay monthly for some period of time? E.g. like for 2 years? Not the whole lump sum. Is there any agreement like that can be achieved with Revenue?

4. Can Revenue ease penalties based on that I novice to this kind of things and I wanted to use money for my own property deposit?

5. Fat thinger problem: I wanted to sell 100 coins, but put 1000 accidently, when I spot I already sold 500 of coins, I cancelled order and bought back 400 at the same minute. Thing is that market was at downtrend, so I bought back a bit cheaper. Is there a way to convince Revenue that my itention was not to dispose 500 coins and it was fat thinger problem?

Thank you for your help.

General reading here is that you seem to have a tax liability, however Revenue will take it on a case by case basis.

This is assuming an audit situation.

Penalties range from 3% up to 100%, the 100% being outright tax evasion and the worst.

However if you are only late paying for 2017 then interest will most likely only apply 10%annually.

Establish your tax liability first, then payment.

The return for 2017 is due 31 October next. Late returns only have a surcharge of 5%/10%.

As the system is self assessment revenue will not seek to look at the individual trades, just the overall position you report to them.

In an audit situation, they would examine most transactions.

If in doubt speak to an accountant, who will assist you on these areas.

CryptoReview · 11-07-2018 11:04AM

Morning

I have 2 questions, hoping someone knows the answer.

How is mining/staking taxed?

Are airdrops taxable?

ZeroThreat · 11-07-2018 12:16PM

Well it's no coincidence that posts in this thread declined in line with the crypto market disappearing down the toilet bowl for the foreseeable future....

Zascar · 02-09-2018 02:26PM

Quick question, I bought some crypto last year and it has gone down significantly. I may now need to sell. Can I offset my losses off a potential tax liability I have for rental income?

AlmightyCushion · 02-09-2018 04:29PM

Zascar wrote: »

Quick question, I bought some crypto last year and it has gone down significantly. I may now need to sell. Can I offset my losses off a potential tax liability I have for rental income?

Nope. You can only offset it against capital gains.

canijustask · 02-11-2018 12:20PM

Hey guys, I have a question regarding taxation of cryptocurrencies.

I asked an accountant how this is taxed and he said that both Capital gains AND income tax applies. He made it sound like i would have to pay 33% and then pay income tax as well? That can't be right? That would be nearly 60% for me?

I read this article and it makes the distinction: if you're "investing" in cryptocurrencies then you are taxed Capital gains.

If you're a "trader" then you pay income tax.

So my question is if I'm an "investor", do I just have to pay Capital gains @ 33% (on the profit) when I cash out, or will I have to pay Income tax on top of this? Thanks

canijustask · 02-11-2018 12:20PM

Hey guys, I have a question regarding taxation of cryptocurrencies.

I asked an accountant how this is taxed and he said that both Capital gains AND income tax applies. He made it sound like i would have to pay 33% and then pay income tax as well? That can't be right? That would be nearly 60% for me?

I read this article and it makes the distinction: if you're "investing" in cryptocurrencies then you are taxed Capital gains.

If you're a "trader" then you pay income tax.

So my question is if I'm an "investor", do I just have to pay Capital gains @ 33% (on the profit) when I cash out, or will I have to pay Income tax on top of this? Thanks

grindle · 02-11-2018 12:31PM

canijustask wrote: »

I just have to pay Capital gains @ 33%

This.

unkel · 05-11-2018 12:45AM

The article you read was right, so you are right and your accountant is wrong. Dump him!

Noctifer · 25-11-2018 12:53PM

Anyone used bitcoin.tax to calculate due tax for Ireland? I have thousands of transactions even though I stopped trading back in February, so doing it by hand is an impossible task.

Or any other site suggestions? I have between 1000-2000 transactions for 2018 so any site that would not charge crazy prices (anything up to 50 euro is fine) would be great.

super ted rules · 17-04-2019 11:54PM

Can anyone confirm if LIFO has been accepted by Revenue in their tax returns?

super ted rules · 26-04-2019 07:23PM

super ted rules wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if LIFO has been accepted by Revenue in their tax returns?

Everyone has a different view if LIFO or FIFO can be applied.

There is no specific mention how to calculate the cost basis for CGT in the guidance from Revenue last year.

The HRMC uses pooling and the 30 day rule.

Pawinho · 04-09-2020 01:17PM

super ted rules wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if LIFO has been accepted by Revenue in their tax returns?

Koinly.io use FIFO.

Del Griffith · 17-09-2020 04:10PM

https://www.thecurrency.news/articles/23977/

"I expect change on CGT to come quite quickly, with the economic shock caused by the pandemic expediating matters. The word in government circles is that a temporary reduction will be unveiled in Budget 2021."

Stormington · 17-09-2020 08:07PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

https://www.thecurrency.news/articles/23977/

"I expect change on CGT to come quite quickly, with the economic shock caused by the pandemic expediating matters. The word in government circles is that a temporary reduction will be unveiled in Budget 2021."

PW; DR.
My limited understanding of CGT is that of all taxes, it is the one that actually takes in big money from the mega-wealthy most reliably and regularly. In light of the economic and productivity hits from the pandemic, a reduction in CGT would reduce tax liability for asset owners in a big way and allow them to free up capital until their assets are generating higher expected returns.

With the knock on effect of potentially allowing mere mortals/defi degenerates to do likewise.

D-K · 18-09-2020 04:05PM

Hi,

Just looking to fill out the CG1 form for 2019. I have made a loss so
just wondering where i enter the minus figure.Is point 18 where i show this?

Pawinho · 27-11-2020 05:51PM

What about all interest received from BlockFi, Celsius Network or crypto exchanges? Are they capital gain tax, or DIRT ?

Stormington · 27-11-2020 07:18PM

Pawinho wrote: »

What about all interest received from BlockFi, Celsius Network or crypto exchanges? Are they capital gain tax, or DIRT ?

Income, IIRC.

Can we pool our knowledge regarding TAX and crypto and make some kind of FAQ/sticky?

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