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US Presidential Election 2020

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    Amazing fact checks here


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq0CtHbYIzA

    Trump will spew whatever he wants no matter how false it is and his followers will believe it and never question it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,586 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    A very interesting piece by a former Russian ambassador, who is well respected by all, and who has a wealth of experience. Worth a read and a warning for those voting in November as to what they are getting.





    For those of us who study autocracies, including elections in autocracies, there were a lot of familiar messages, symbols, and methods on display this week at the #RNCConvention. THREAD

    1. Cult of the Personality. This show was all about Trump. ( 3 years after the death of Stalin, Khrushchev's gave his secret speech in 1956, titled "On the Cult of Personality and Its Consequences." I wonder if a future GOP leader will give a similar speech someday?)

    2. Administrative resources. Autocrats and semi-autocrats frequently use government resources for personal electoral gain. We have #HatchAct to prevent such behavior in the U.S. It's obviously not working.

    3. Blatant disregard for the law. That Trump's team dared anyone to charge them with violating the #HatchAct is exactly what Putin and others autocrats do all the time. Laws don't apply to the king & his court, only to the subjects.

    4. Blatant disregard for facts. As U.S. ambassador to Russia, I found this Putin regime trait most frustrating. We - the U.S. government- were constrained by facts. They were not. Trump obviously was not constrained by facts last night. He usually isn't: amazon.com/gp/product/B08…

    5. Us versus Them populism. "Elites" versus "the people" nationalism. Autocratic populists use polarizing identity politics to divide societies all the time. Many populist leaders actually have little in common with the "masses." (Putin is very rich.)

    6. The opposition is the "enemy of the people." Putin & other autocratic populists cast their opponents as radicals & revolutionaries. They don't focus on their own records - often there is little to celebrate - but the horrors that will happen if they lose power. Sound familiar?

    6b. There is one difference between Putin and Trump so far. Putin also claims falsely that his political opponents are supported by foreign enemies, the U.S. & the West. Trump has not gone there full-throated yet. But my guess it's coming. "Beijing Biden" is a hint.

    7. Law and Order. Autocratic populists all shout about it, even when the opposite is happening on their watch.

    8. The good tsar versus the bad boyars. Kings and tsars always blamed bad provincial leaders for national ills. Putin blames the governors all the time... just like Trump.

    9. Individual acts of royal kindness. Putin, like the tsars he emulates, does this all the time. Trump offering a pardon or "granting" citizenship (which of course he didnt & doesn't have the power to do) are typical, faux gestures of royal kindness toward his subjects.

    10. Homage and fealty. Vassals must signal their complete loyalty and absolute devotion to kings and autocrats. Those that don't are banished from the royal court or the party. (Where were the Bushes last night?)

    11. The royal family. In this dimension, Trump acts more like a monarch than even Putin. (but watch Lukashenko and his gun-toting teenage son in Belarus)The many Trump family members who performed this week - even a girlfriend got a slot - went beyond even what Putin does.

    12. There's still one big difference. We still don't know who will win the November election. That uncertainty is a crucial difference between electoral democracies & electoral autocracies. Its also a difference that has no guarantee of lasting, depending on the outcome this year

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,331 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    That's fascinating, do you have a link/reference?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,586 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    looksee wrote: »
    That's fascinating, do you have a link/reference?

    Here you go.

    https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1299393438522077190?s=19

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,625 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Why would it? This is all on the GOPs watch. The Democrats aren't supporting violence but the people that can do something about it, namely the orange moron and his cronies in the white house are just fanning the flames and making things worse.

    He's not wrong actually, the support for BLM which is now a dividing issue has lost support from June to August in certain areas where BLM related or blamed violence is taking place. This is something that Biden and the team need to keep an eye on and make sure they don't lose too many votes by association.

    Biden going and speaking there I think, off the cuff, unscripted would be the best course of action. It isn't like the poll showing the drop in support is going to directly mean that people will not be voting Biden automatically but it is something the campaign needs to be on top of. Those swing states are absolutely vital obviously

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,686 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Brian? wrote: »
    With all the flags and eagles it looks like a Nuremberg rally.

    2000 people on the whitehouse lawn with no masks or social distancing doesn’t look at all presidential to me.

    These conventions are a battle of the flags.

    Both parties parade their nationalistic American nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,686 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I just find it sadly ironic how trump and his cronies are bleating on about the coming apocalypse if the Democrats win all the while nearly 200K americans have died in a pandemic and america burns with race riots and fires in California.

    Most people in America unaffected by the above.

    Race riots and clashes are regular in America.

    Fires in California.. happens all the time.

    The pandemic - once Americans still can go to McDonald's, they don't care about the loss of life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,586 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    These conventions are a battle of the flags.

    Both parties parade their nationalistic American nonsense.

    Only one candidate repeatedly hugged the flag in a desperate attempt to look patriotic

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,686 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Only one candidate repeatedly hugged the flag in a desperate attempt to look patriotic

    I didn't see much difference in the Democrat one.

    The flag thing is an American culture thing.

    America is similar to North Korea in many ways, mixed with religious fundamentalists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,586 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    I didn't see much difference in the Democrat one.

    That's a significant problem

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Most people in America unaffected by the above.

    Race riots and clashes are regular in America.

    Fires in California.. happens all the time.

    The pandemic - once Americans still can go to McDonald's, they don't care about the loss of life.

    The odds of people knowing people who died from covid is incredibly high. Older voters are incredibly affected, not getting any handle on it means that plenty of older people simply can't go out. That's a pretty large and important voting demographic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I didn't see much difference in the Democrat one.

    The flag thing is an American culture thing.

    America is similar to North Korea in many ways, mixed with religious fundamentalists.

    The problems have not been what was seen at both conventions, but what was said. And while your noted indifference to the subject is familiar, your constant insistence that the Dems & GOP as identical ring false against the hysterical apocalyptic rhetoric at the Rep convention. Eclipsing even the zealotry of post 9/11. The GOP convention used the language of the Death Cult and even the eternally jaded like yourself must find that disturbing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,942 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I didn't see much difference in the Democrat one.

    The flag thing is an American culture thing.

    America is similar to North Korea in many ways, mixed with religious fundamentalists.

    Well there is a difference because one candidate did literally hug a flag to presumably overcompensate on the patriotism meter which is something the current president does a lot.

    Also, the GOP convention in which part of the convention took place at the White House which in the not too distant past both parties held as hallowed ground and didn’t do **** like trump did.

    And if the American people care more about a ****ty lump of meat than the deaths of nearly 200K of their fellow countrymen and countrywomen then that’s a fairly poor reflection on that nation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,027 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    What happens if they beat the evil Trump....and the protesting/looting/violence continues?


  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JJayoo wrote: »
    What happens if they beat the evil Trump....and the protesting/looting/violence continues?

    I can't imagine it'll simply stop. America has to start to address the systemic issues. That includes the Police, education system funding and the prison industrial complex. I do imagine the President not aiming to further inflame the situation will help though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Interesting article in the Telegraph today by Douglas Murray

    It’s in the UK’s national interest for Trump to triumph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/28/uks-national-interest-trump-triumph/

    Non paywall
    https://archive.vn/fX0AD


  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Interesting article in the Telegraph today by Douglas Murray

    It’s in the UK’s national interest for Trump to triumph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/28/uks-national-interest-trump-triumph/

    Non paywall
    https://archive.vn/fX0AD

    Firstly, Murray is somewhat of a shock jockey. Him hedging his bets on the UK getting a good trade deal with the US is somewhat irrelevant to Ireland. He claims Trump is one of the most successful Americans in US history which is highly debatable. Speculates that Clinton would have gone to war which is simply speculation. He actively ignores how divisive and damaging Trump has been to put international relations and socially in a domestic sense.

    On top of that, he's been incredibly favourable towards Putin in spite of electoral interference. If the Russians start targeting British soldiers, he won't back them up. Overall he's achieved nothing with his actions against China. But has actively egged on xenophobia.

    So the article amounts to ignoring what he's done in 4 years by an author who likes to shock.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Firstly, Murray is somewhat of a shock jockey. Him hedging his bets on the UK getting a good trade deal with the US is somewhat irrelevant to Ireland. He claims Trump is one of the most successful Americans in US history which is highly debatable. Speculates that Clinton would have gone to war which is simply speculation. He actively ignores how divisive and damaging Trump has been to put international relations and socially in a domestic sense.

    On top of that, he's been incredibly favourable towards Putin in spite of electoral interference. If the Russians start targeting British soldiers, he won't back them up. Overall he's achieved nothing with his actions against China. But has actively egged on xenophobia.

    So the article amounts to ignoring what he's done in 4 years by an author who likes to shock.

    It looks like the article is a counter view to one William Hague wrote a few days ago in favour of Joe Biden

    It’s in the UK’s national interest that Joe Biden wins the presidential race
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/24/uks-national-interest-joe-biden-wins-presidential-race/

    Perhaps Murray is playing the devil's advocate a bit but none the less he raises some good points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,159 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    JJayoo wrote: »
    What happens if they beat the evil Trump....and the protesting/looting/violence continues?

    The people trying to beat Trump and the ones protesting/looting and being violent aren’t the same people no matter how much the GOP would like to push the narrative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    It looks like the article is a counter view to one William Hague wrote a few days ago in favour of Joe Biden

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/24/uks-national-interest-joe-biden-wins-presidential-race/

    Perhaps Murray is playing the devil's advocate a bit but none the less he raises some good points.

    Murray is a right wing nutter.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,942 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I hope the Biden and Harris ticket don’t play defence due to the polls and trump just being a enforced error of a president. They need to apply the pressure and push back against his ramblings. You’d hope any campaign manager worth their salt would learn from 2016 that it’s not over until you cross the line.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    I didn't see much difference in the Democrat one.

    The flag thing is an American culture thing.

    America is similar to North Korea in many ways, mixed with religious fundamentalists.

    Have you ever anything to add?

    You say the same things every week and they're not the most earth shattering of statements, even if they're usually wrong. We geddit.

    Can you bulk up your statements though so we can get some insight into your own thoughts?

    I mean, you constantly rail at the futility of everything, how you don't really care about American politics, how the Dems and the GOP are all the same and how Americans don't care once they can [insert Americana trope].

    It just seems trite and pointless though, when you're trying to always appear aloof and the smartest guy in the room. It's not working.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,397 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: Below standard posts and responses deleted.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Mod Note

    Off topic posts have been removed. Leave the moderating to the mods please. The forum rules are laid out in the charter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,931 ✭✭✭✭Water John




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,541 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Water John wrote: »

    Trump campaign meddling with Iowa absentee ballot requests. The #IMPOTUS team knows they need Iowa, they'll cheat. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/514271-judge-grants-trump-campaigns-request-to-block-thousands-of-iowa-absentee


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,426 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Water John wrote:
    Art Cullen who lives in Iowa seems to believe the tide has turned against Trump there:


    I'm not convinced he ll win this one, but I still think it could be close enough


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Why would it? This is all on the GOPs watch. The Democrats aren't supporting violence but the people that can do something about it, namely the orange moron and his cronies in the white house are just fanning the flames and making things worse.

    They have consistently come out against the police before the full details of incidents have been made clear. See Harris's comments about Blake for the most recent example. That shows they are more interested in taking advantage of the zeitgeist of outrage than they are for due process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Trump campaign meddling with Iowa absentee ballot requests. The #IMPOTUS team knows they need Iowa, they'll cheat. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/514271-judge-grants-trump-campaigns-request-to-block-thousands-of-iowa-absentee

    The officials left themselves open to be challenged by pre- completing so much personal details on the forms. Stupid to leave themselves open to a successful legal challenge.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,931 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The US will hit 6M covid cases tomorrow. That's what will dominate the news and the lives of people. Not those shouting at the RNC.


This discussion has been closed.
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