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Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

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Comments

  • #2522
    Hawthorn Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hawthorn Tree


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    No it wasn't. It was one room, with a partially closed divider, which was opened up further for the after dinner speeches!

    I ate my breakfast in that very room on Friday morning (was in the main dining room on the other mornings.) With tables for dinner for 80-odd people, it'd be pretty full. At breakfast time the tables were very widely spread apart and they only allowed about 25 people in that room! Despite the fact that nobody at breakfast was drinking alcohol, shaking hands with people from Kildare, loudly talking sh!te and all the other stuff that no doubt went on on Wednesday night.

    Throw in jet-setting Hogan and we have all the ingredients present for a potential super-spreader event.

    This p!ssup was illegal under the new rules. But it was illegal under the old rules as well. Your excuses don't wash.

    Pubs etc. taking the mick cannot excuse anyone else taking the mick.

    I am deeply angry that my family and I, as guests at this hotel this week, have been needlessly put at risk for the sake of an illegal golf society jolly. If we'd known the hotel was proposing to host events like this, we simply would not have gone there.

    I'm also angry that people see fit to excuse and minimise what is inexcusable behaviour from a bunch of entitled people who really should have known better. I can't think of a single reason how anyone involved with this event thought that it was an acceptable or good idea. Are they all really that thick, or just blinded by arrogance?

    Great post. I can only imagine that the people condoning this event have some kind of colonial tip-the-cap mentality towards their 'betters. Hogan was rewarded for utter failure with Irish Water. He needs to resign this time.


  • #2523
    Danzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,068 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    Great post. I can only imagine that the people condoning this event have some kind of colonial tip-the-cap mentality towards their 'betters. Hogan was rewarded for utter failure with Irish Water. He needs to resign this time.

    Dumping people in to the EU is common all over Europe.


  • #2524
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    A good reason for this was the rushed advice this week.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-hotels-federation-golf-gate-5181902-Aug2020/


  • #2525
    Field east
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,487 ✭✭✭Field east


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    Your post doesn't recognise that tv, radio, newspapers all have this as the #1 story as it is developing hour by hour.
    You also didn't once mention lawmakers were involved, very high positioned lawmakers who erm, make the rules.
    Ever heard of the phrase, 'bring the people with you'?
    Trying to get people on this here forum to stop being inconvenient to party feelings won't work.

    I’ve read the thread from no 1 to this polnt and have a strong flavor of what is goin on in the Joe Duffy programme and the phrase ‘empty vessals make the most noise’.
    Don’t get me wrong. What was done was wrong and MUST be appropriately addressed but the ‘baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater’ and my fear is that may happen.
    I don’t know where the government will get the energy and time and concentration required to adequately address the unprecedented issues ahead of it Eg. Covid, Brexit, going back to school, Leaving Cert. while at the same time trying to grapple with the golf gate issue - not to say time spent on the Cowen issue.
    Getting back to the first sentence, when you remove all the inputs from the Keyboard warriors, trollers,individuals who are ‘anti establishment’ and will use every opportunity to make their case, groups out there specifically set up to ‘go into action’ when requested, etc, I wonder then what’s left re genuine objective responders?


  • #2526
    tigger123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,605 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Field east wrote: »
    I’ve read the thread from no 1 to this polnt and have a strong flavor of what is goin on in the Joe Duffy programme and the phrase ‘empty vessals make the most noise’.
    Don’t get me wrong. What was done was wrong and MUST be appropriately addressed but the ‘baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater’ and my fear is that may happen.
    I don’t know where the government will get the energy and time and concentration required to adequately address the unprecedented issues ahead of it Eg. Covid, Brexit, going back to school, Leaving Cert. while at the same time trying to grapple with the golf gate issue - not to say time spent on the Cowen issue.
    Getting back to the first sentence, when you remove all the inputs from the Keyboard warriors, trollers,individuals who are ‘anti establishment’ and will use every opportunity to make their case, groups out there specifically set up to ‘go into action’ when requested, etc, I wonder then what’s left re genuine objective responders?

    The Government is being distracted from dealing with the issues in front of it because a member of the Cabinet and some Senators (amongst others) decided to ignore Government guidelines re Covid.

    The Government is doing this to itself. If anyone is to blame, it's the Government.

    People are justifiably angry at this considering the sacrifices the Government has asked of people for the last six months.


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  • #2527
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,546 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    MickeyLeari wrote: »
    A good reason for this was the rushed advice this week.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-hotels-federation-golf-gate-5181902-Aug2020/

    I read something similar on the RTE website about it.

    The Irish Hotels Federation asked the Department of Tourism for clarification on Wednesday morning about the new guidelines.

    Department of Tourism said status quo (50 people) remains in please untill clarification was received.

    The clarification was received on Friday afternoon.

    So 41 people in a room was fine on Wednesday night according to Department of Tourism.

    The likes of Callery and co were totally stupid and tone deaf to allow themselves to be caught up in this, but they did not seem to be blatantly breaking any rules or ignoring any guidelines.


  • #2528
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I read something similar on the RTE website about it.

    The Irish Hotels Federation asked the Department of Tourism for clarification on Wednesday morning about the new guidelines.

    Department of Tourism said status quo (50 people) remains in please untill clarification was received.

    The clarification was received on Friday afternoon.

    So 41 people in a room was fine on Wednesday night according to Department of Tourism.

    The likes of Callery and co were totally stupid and tone deaf to allow themselves to be caught up in this, but they did not seem to be blatantly breaking any rules or ignoring any guidelines.

    Agree and also useful to recall that we were all being asked to support the local economy, to staycation and indeed we had a economy stimulus plan a few weeks back.


  • #2529
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Field east wrote: »
    I’ve read the thread from no 1 to this polnt and have a strong flavor of what is goin on in the Joe Duffy programme and the phrase ‘empty vessals make the most noise’.
    Don’t get me wrong. What was done was wrong and MUST be appropriately addressed but the ‘baby should not be thrown out with the bathwater’ and my fear is that may happen.
    I don’t know where the government will get the energy and time and concentration required to adequately address the unprecedented issues ahead of it Eg. Covid, Brexit, going back to school, Leaving Cert. while at the same time trying to grapple with the golf gate issue - not to say time spent on the Cowen issue.
    Getting back to the first sentence, when you remove all the inputs from the Keyboard warriors, trollers,individuals who are ‘anti establishment’ and will use every opportunity to make their case, groups out there specifically set up to ‘go into action’ when requested, etc, I wonder then what’s left re genuine objective responders?


    It's quite easy.
    They need to act swiftly against all of those lawmakers and party affiliates (as far as they can possibly do so) who flouted the spirit and requirements of the measures they introduced.
    This govt cannot bring a population with it until they do and quite frankly, we're fecked if the people don't.

    Then they can get on with guiding the country through this turbulent period - as one columnist put it, the politicking has to stop inside the govt (FG v FF, FF v FG)


  • #2530
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    As I said on the Phil Hogan thread.

    So what is this in reality:

    - the Government policy up to last week was to get the country back to business.
    - we had a job stimulus plan in July and a good part of this was in respect to the hospitality industry which is on its knees right now. Note that close to a million people are either on the PUP or the TWSS (we won’t be able to afford this for long).
    - we have a Government policy of encouraging staycations. The extent to this approach is that the chair of Bord Failte was forced to resign after taking a holiday in a country which was perfectly ok to travel to (normal precautions is the DFA advice)
    - hotels and restaurants are reeling from Covid 19 and trying to stay open while adhering to complex rules.
    - the Cabinet in a panic last Tuesday changed the rules and they could not even explain them at a press conference.
    - the hotel and the hotels federation seemingly received advice that functions could be split so as to comply with the rules applying until Tuesday afternoon.
    - the hotel and the hotel federation were seeking clarity on the new rules (huge uncertainty in respect to these rules). https://www.thejournal...ate-5181902-Aug2020/
    - an event went ahead under this uncertainty - an event which was in line with the opening up message which applied until the previous day (although no one was 100% sure what the Cabinet agreed).
    - a member of that Cabinet attended the event and should have known it was in breach of what he agreed the previous day (the rest of us did not really have a clue).
    - that Minister was right to resign having agreed this.
    - the organisers clearly knew that they were stretching the existing rules.
    - other attendees (like with all health and safety advices) would have had to assume that the event was in line with govt advice and legal regulations.

    If this was in front of a rationale body such as a Court or workplace dispute it would be thrown out in minutes but this is the Court of public opinion.


  • #2531
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,344 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Millionaire only not wrote: »
    Leo is tipped as front runner for the job , a loss to Ireland if u ask me but he’ll be good in Europe. Guess we’re stuck with Coveney!
    Personally I would rather it the other way around as I think Coveney is good at negotiating and Leo is showing he’s cleverest of all the politicians put together .
    Leo is using Michae’l Martin to mop the floor and throw him in the bin when he’s done if him .

    I really don't understand the love for Leo from many people.

    He knows how to play the game and use the media to his advantage, but there's no substance behind it.

    Think rationally. What did he really achieve as a Minister under Enda?
    What about him using the SSM campaign to boost his bid to replace Enda by "coming out" on national radio when only a few years earlier he was standing in the Dail advocating against much of what the campaign was about?
    What did he achieve as Taoiseach? Spin units? The "look after those who get up early in the morning" lie? Core domestic issues like health and housing worsening under his watch? Let's not forget the election result and that it took 5 counts to get him elected.

    The guy has no policies or priorities save for his own career and advancement. The media love him because he's always good for a soundbite or talking out of turn, but he would be zero loss to the country. In fact he may well be hoping himself that he'll get move to Europe out of it.


    Coveney on the other hand doesn't have the media image but he is very much a Europhile and big business guy too.
    Given FG's habit of putting business interests over the electorates, and the ongoing efforts of the EU to do things like eliminate our corporation tax advantage and push member states into a USofE federal arrangement (which will only cause more disharmony in the group than we've seen in the last 10 years), having Simon at the helm here could see Ireland's influence and control over domestic policies eroded even further.


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  • #2532
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    The indo seem to think that Hogan stepping down as EU Commissioner is "inevitable "

    Various media organisations around the world have picked up on the story.

    Couldn't have happened to a nicer parasite


  • #2533
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,100 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The typical Irish unthinking, half-arsed, arra shur tis grand/shur twill do attitude comes unstuck.

    Hardly any great surprise.


  • #2534
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,093 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Dickie bruton to take over in Brussels ?


  • #2535
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,265 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I read something similar on the RTE website about it.

    The Irish Hotels Federation asked the Department of Tourism for clarification on Wednesday morning about the new guidelines.

    Department of Tourism said status quo (50 people) remains in please untill clarification was received.

    The clarification was received on Friday afternoon.

    So 41 people in a room was fine on Wednesday night according to Department of Tourism.

    The likes of Callery and co were totally stupid and tone deaf to allow themselves to be caught up in this, but they did not seem to be blatantly breaking any rules or ignoring any guidelines.

    People were ringing in to a radio show yesterday who were also staying in that hotel .They said the golf groups were gathering in groups , shaking hands and no SD .Three or four were blocking the lift entry and people had to shout at them to move .


  • #2536
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,093 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Happier times for Big Phil

    https://youtu.be/fvG8duV0OJE


  • #2537
    Johnny_BravoIII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 308 ✭✭Johnny_BravoIII


    I'm finding it hard to cut through the noise here.
    Was the event in breach of guidelines or not?


  • #2538
    KevRossi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,578 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Will the Banking & Payments Federation ask Brian Hayes to resign, or is he above reproach?

    At some stage he'll be photographed with Varadker et. al., so maybe a statement should be forthcoming from them. As a former legislator he should have known that what he was doing was wrong.


  • #2539
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »
    I'm finding it hard to cut through the noise here.
    Was the event in breach of guidelines or not?
    In terms of then current guidelines no but the crossover into the new muddled messages left Calleary and Buttimer exposed as they attended an event that bent those rules double. They should have checked first and declined.


  • #2540
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    No wonder poor Hogan had to escape Kildare before his 14 days were up during a countywide lockdown
    (the cheek of the K Club charging monstrous dosh for that dogs dinner! Money can't buy class)
    https://twitter.com/colincoyle/status/1297442510911012866?s=20


  • #2541
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »
    I'm finding it hard to cut through the noise here.
    Was the event in breach of guidelines or not?

    Sort of it seems as there is a lot of confusion for business.

    www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-hotels-federation-was-awaiting-clarification-on-new-guidelines-at-time-of-golf-dinner-1.4336125%3fmode=amp

    I think the whole thing with the speeches when the partitions were removed probably brought it over the line as not. But there were reports yesterday that they were strict about not having having tables inter-mingling and there was no drinking at the bar.

    3 weeks ago it was all about trying to get the economy going again.


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  • #2542
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Will the Banking & Payments Federation ask Brian Hayes to resign, or is he above reproach?

    At some stage he'll be photographed with Varadker et. al., so maybe a statement should be forthcoming from them. As a former legislator he should have known that what he was doing was wrong.

    You are presuming an organisation representing companies like that have any morals


  • #2543
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Will the Banking & Payments Federation ask Brian Hayes to resign, or is he above reproach?

    At some stage he'll be photographed with Varadker et. al., so maybe a statement should be forthcoming from them. As a former legislator he should have known that what he was doing was wrong.
    Resignations, even when required, tend to provide vindication of sorts to people's heightened sense of righteousness. It's even better when it's someone they don't like on sight!


  • #2544
    Gods Gift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭Gods Gift


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Will the Banking & Payments Federation ask Brian Hayes to resign, or is he above reproach?

    At some stage he'll be photographed with Varadker et. al., so maybe a statement should be forthcoming from them. As a former legislator he should have known that what he was doing was wrong.

    Brian is saying that he is a private citizen now and is a private matter.


  • #2545
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    Brian is saying that he is a private citizen now and is a private matter.

    The taxpayer paid for his dinner


  • #2546
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Gods Gift wrote: »
    Brian is saying that he is a private citizen now and is a private matter.
    And he's not wrong, most of the 80 were private citizens.


  • #2547
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Will the Banking & Payments Federation ask Brian Hayes to resign, or is he above reproach?

    At some stage he'll be photographed with Varadker et. al., so maybe a statement should be forthcoming from them. As a former legislator he should have known that what he was doing was wrong.
    Untouchable I would have thought.
    Sure didn't his lot run rings around the wonderfully popular heros Varadkar and Donohoe with their spiel just a few months ago when people really needed help, not fake profit-driven help.


  • #2548
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    The taxpayer paid for his dinner
    How was that?


  • #2549
    MickeyLeari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 916 ✭✭✭MickeyLeari


    is_that_so wrote: »
    How was that?

    I did not realise it was a State dinner


  • #2550
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,546 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    People were ringing in to a radio show yesterday who were also staying in that hotel .They said the golf groups were gathering in groups , shaking hands and no SD .Three or four were blocking the lift entry and people had to shout at them to move .
    Well that's just hearsay.

    The reality is that by being in a room with more than 5 others on Wednesday was not the blatant disregard for the guidelines as people first thought it was.

    The notion of "one rule for them and one rule for us" goes out the window.

    Replace the golfers with volunteers for the homeless at that function and they would still be within the guidelines.


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  • #2551
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,344 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    So what are the key radio/TV shows to watch for today?


This discussion has been closed.
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