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Will any sportives go ahead in 2020?

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    #212
    dahat
    Registered Users Posts: 16,668 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    Many club spins are touring/leisure rather than training.

    I don't 'train' nor do I race but I'm regularly on club rides.

    It seems these have been classed loosely as training.


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    #213
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,716 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Beasty wrote: »
    There's due to be racing at Sundrive in just over 4 hours. Of course that's weather-dependent and it's looking pretty ropey at present
    The sun just made a fleeting appearance at Sundrive. Racing is on until we're told it's off....


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    #214
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    CI CEO on RTE 6.1 news. He seems to have taken from Taoiseach that events are OK to go ahead without spectators.


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    #215
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Sundrive was also on the news,


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    #216
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Races can attract people from all over the place, in larger numbers that may only now and then be in each others company.

    Club spins bring together , largely the same people on a regular basis to cycle together.


    I know which ones I'd be encouraging to keep going first in the current situation, and it's not racing as bigger a pill that it is to follow.


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    #217
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,828 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    Mercian Pro wrote: »
    . Odd too that they are encouraging people to show up and ride the route on the day even though it's been cancelled.
    .

    Funnily enough I was half planning to do that myself. In fairness, the peninsula is big enough to accommodate a shcatter of solo riders.


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    #218
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Races can attract people from all over the place, in larger numbers that may only now and then be in each others company.

    Club spins bring together , largely the same people on a regular basis to cycle together.


    I know which ones I'd be encouraging to keep going first in the current situation, and it's not racing as bigger a pill that it is to follow.

    I suppose that CI are just working within what they are given. I could be wrong but I presume NPHET and government thinking is that in competitive events, with competitors watching each other, there is a lower risk of social interaction beyond the competition. I've seen it on spins and at training, some people don't follow the guidelines and it spreads, no pun intended, like a contagion. Competition wise, it just doesn't seem to happen as much. Its not perfect but that would be my guess. Not saying it is right.

    This said, considering what appears to be the greatest threat (although not the only one) is viral load, and open air competition or training should be quite low in the risk categories for this, regardless of sport. If anything I would have left outdoor activities as they are except get rid of spectators, and then close gyms and indoor sports unless they can run stuff outside.

    I say this with the caveat that while I work with virologists and epidemiologists I am not one and certainly would not claim to be one.


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    #219
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    dahat wrote: »
    http://www.cyclingireland.ie/cycling-news-item/cycling-ireland-covid-19-updated-guidance/28556

    I've been silently critical of CI regarding Covid 19 handling but have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by this announcement. They got it out fast this time and they are taking an interpretation on vague guidelines which allows pretty much everything to continue as is.

    You shouldn't really be cycling with more than 15 in a group on a club spin anyway, if 30 turn up split into at least 2 groups.

    I've been impressed with how the GAA stands up for its interests and am glad to see CI do a bit of the same


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    #220
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,964 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    harringtonp wrote: »
    ...I've been impressed with how the GAA stands up for its interests...
    The GAA depends heavily on gate receipts so is more motivated to stand up for it's interests.


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    #221
    harringtonp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭harringtonp


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    The GAA depends heavily on gate receipts so is more motivated to stand up for it's interests.

    True. And CI may finally be realising that if they are not seen to be encouraging events membership receipts next year may take a hit.


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    #222
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    The GAA depends heavily on gate receipts so is more motivated to stand up for it's interests.

    With the 200 limit, that left approx 110 paying spectators at most. Not exactly much coming in via gate receipts is there?

    My issue with the no spectators thing for GAA is the reason that Glynn hinted at. Some rubbish about people car pooling going to/from games. If this had been an issue you could be sure it would have been publicised earlier with evidence of such.

    Also the idea that you can only have 15 in a training group both for cycling and for example GAA(they/we also have include any management/medical in that 15), yet we/they can plough ahead with events/matches where there will be many multiples of that figure. Makes ZERO sense.


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    #223
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    The 15 for training but unlimited numbers for an event is nonsensical from the government. It affects us on track, I imagine bmx too. The one session with a 14 person limit books out in 90 seconds, now all sessions will be like this. But like last night any amount of us can turn up to race.

    It's a bigger problem for team sports like GAA, soccer etc cos I imagine you have to train as a whole team together to get value and progress out of training sessions.


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    #224
    Crocked
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Crocked


    eeeee wrote: »
    The 15 for training but unlimited numbers for an event is nonsensical from the government. It affects us on track, I imagine bmx too. The one session with a 14 person limit books out in 90 seconds, now all sessions will be like this. But like last night any amount of us can turn up to race.

    It's a bigger problem for team sports like GAA, soccer etc cos I imagine you have to train as a whole team together to get value and progress out of training sessions.

    It's not nonsensical, it's making tough decisions to as best as they can manage risk. Whilst also trying to let people have as normal a life as they can.

    Too use the GAA as an example as they have been most vocal. You don't "need" more than 15 players for a training session, but you do need more than 15 to play a match. So you manage the risk by limiting numbers at training so as you can still play matches.

    This crap people have been going on with for days comparing X to Y or why someone else can do their thing but I can't do my thing has to stop. People need to realise that we are still in a pandemic which requires some aspects of our lives being restricted for the foreseeable future.


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    #225
    JimmiesRustled
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭JimmiesRustled


    Crocked wrote: »
    This crap people have been going on with for days comparing X to Y or why someone else can do their thing but I can't do my thing has to stop. People need to realise that we are still in a pandemic which requires some aspects of our lives being restricted for the foreseeable future.

    No one here is complaining about that. We're saying that we don't think it makes sense, which it doesn't.

    I want racing to go ahead as I've put in a decent amount of training this year but I don't see how it logically can if a gathering of 15 people outdoors isn't permitted. The fact that stamping "Race" or "event" on it somehow means the virus disappears is absolute nonsense.

    We all realise we're in a pandemic. We all want to get through this as best we can and as quickly as we can which is why some of us are worried that the restrictions implemented make little to no sense in terms of stopping the spread.

    Its not comparing x to y or apples to oranges. Its comparing a like for like situation. It's all centred around gatherings so it's like for like. You cant train outdoors with more than 15 people but go to the cinema and you can have 50 people.

    I'm not saying that that's unfair. I'm saying that that makes no sense whatsoever.


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    #226
    Crocked
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Crocked


    But it does make sense, it's managing risk. You reduce the risk in one area where you can so as you can take a bit more a risk when you can only do your thing/event with a higher risk being taken eg training v match/race.

    In cycling you don't need 15+ people for training, you do need 15+ if you want to run a race. So therefore you limit the numbers where you can ie in training, so you can then have higher numbers and risk for when you have to ie in the race.


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    #227
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I also think people are confusing the NEPHT advice (which in the main, was more restrictive) with the Government's political decision.

    I think the NEPHT advice was only Elite/ Professional sport. Government watered that down. They did the same with the Work from Home and Public Transport advice. Government have to take into account more than just COVID - the functioning of society and the economy.

    I just don't think they're doing a very good explaining to be honest, and then people picking holes in the advice looking for "contradictions"*. 15 for training speeds up contact tracing, and they may also be presuming that people are training more frequently than matches/ races/ events. I'll use my children - they're training twice a week, but don't have a match every week. They're probably in more direct contact in training too, rather than marking a limited number in a match.

    I'm still struggling with sportives being classed the same as races to be honest. Limits on race entries, and none on sportives?

    *OT, but the public transport v school buses "contradiction" is not a contradiction. Getting public transport with randomers every journey is different from children getting on a school bus with the same children everyday!


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    #228
    JimmiesRustled
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭JimmiesRustled


    Crocked wrote: »
    But it does make sense, it's managing risk. You reduce the risk in one area where you can so as you can take a bit more a risk when you can only do your thing/event with a higher risk being taken eg training v match/race.

    In cycling you don't need 15+ people for training, you do need 15+ if you want to run a race. So therefore you limit the numbers where you can ie in training, so you can then have higher numbers and risk for when you have to ie in the race.

    I understand and respect what you're saying and am in no way having a go at you but I just don't agree. There is no "Have to" when we're talking about bike racing. I love racing but its not essential. The Government obviously are trying to get things back to June/July levels of infection before schools open. I say obviously as they wouldn't have put 3 counties in "lockdown" (hate that term) and implemented these new measures otherwise.

    Ultimately my point, i guess, is that the Governments guidance on this is wishy-washy at best. Handing over responsibility to sporting bodies to manage the risk during a pandemic is absolute and utter garbage. I feel sorry for anyone trying to organise an event at this time as you're damned if you don't put it on and possibly damned if you do put it on. You shouldn't be able to interpret/read between the lines of the guidelines implemented by a Government during a pandemic. I'd be out of a job if I issued specifications for mechanical equipment that were that up in the air but I digress.


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    #229
    who_ru
    Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭who_ru


    Tour de Beara 2020 cancelled.


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    #230
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    I also think people are confusing the NEPHT advice (which in the main, was more restrictive) with the Government's political decision.
    +1 and this leads to confusion as Ronan gives out recommendation both to Government and the public as NPHET but not as a government representative which creates confusion to an extent.
    15 for training speeds up contact tracing, and they may also be presuming that people are training more frequently than matches/ races/ events.
    Now that you mention it, this makes the most sense. Ci were quite good with this and their contact tracing app, which you are meant to use even on just an unofficial club spin. I'd be cautious that your insurance might not even be valid if you aren't filling it out as CI have made it part of the requirements of training/going out for a spin.
    I'm still struggling with sportives being classed the same as races to be honest. Limits on race entries, and none on sportives?
    Technically their should be a limit on Sportives in line with their Risk Assessments. In the current climate I don't know how any Sportive or otherwise could justify an unlimited number of entrants. They also should be going to their local authorities for permission, who would give feedback on their risk assessment, which I suspect many haven't. The limit on race entries would have been part of CI guidance and the associated risk assessment. For example I am running a club league in Corkagh, we don't allow 80 riders take part in each race as that would be madness. We use experience and observation to conclude a safe number of riders for each race. Thankfully Club League races in Corkagh are not the most attractive so we haven't had that issue yet.

    Alot of what is being said doesn't appear to make sense but it does, to a small extent, when you look at them trying to balance reducing risk without alienating people to what they are trying to do.

    An example I will give was my sister in law who plays golf. Nice open air experience, groups of 4, all recorded, well separated from other groups, simples. Except, she starts talking about their cup day, blah blah blah, big deal. How awkward it was to give out prizes afterwards, winners etc coming in one at a time into the club house. I f*cking hung my head. I tried to explain to her that they simply shouldn't have done it. Send the winners prizes out separately in the post, notify everyone of the winners by FB or Whatsapp. It was an unnecessary risk for nothing, clearly there was no mental health benefit to the prize giving in that format, no one liked it, they kept the prize giver in the same room for ages for no reason. The game was had, go home after, simples.

    After a bike race, get in your car and go home or keep cycling and cycle straight home, do not wait around. Stay 2m away from everyone until a few minutes before races start. All of these things reduce risk. For football, swimming etc. Leave straight for home, no showers, no chats, just leave. Same for the GAA have your games, but turn up in kit, play the game, go home, no different than training. There is no need for supporters, and money, as in any H&S RA cannot be a consideration. They are a community of volunteers, who get government grants, TV coverage fees, pay no wages to 99% of people doing stuff for them. If they can't make that work for a few months, then they have bigger problems for an amateur association. The more GAA orientated posters might realise this could be a nice way of leveling the playing field for all those amateur athletes in smaller counties.


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    #231
    Crocked
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Crocked


    JimmiesRustled wrote: »
    I understand and respect what you're saying and am in no way having a go at you but I just don't agree. There is no "Have to" when we're talking about bike racing. I love racing but its not essential. The Government obviously are trying to get things back to June/July levels of infection before schools open. I say obviously as they wouldn't have put 3 counties in "lockdown" (hate that term) and implemented these new measures otherwise.

    Ultimately my point, i guess, is that the Governments guidance on this is wishy-washy at best. Handing over responsibility to sporting bodies to manage the risk during a pandemic is absolute and utter garbage. I feel sorry for anyone trying to organise an event at this time as you're damned if you don't put it on and possibly damned if you do put it on. You shouldn't be able to interpret/read between the lines of the guidelines implemented by a Government during a pandemic. I'd be out of a job if I issued specifications for mechanical equipment that were that up in the air but I digress.

    I understand you don't have to run races, but if you are running a race you do need more than 15 people competing to make it viable. That's the distinction I was trying to make, you don't require the same numbers to run a training session that you require to run a race/match.


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    #232
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    For sports in fixed locations have they not tried to bring them to spectators on line?

    My 93 y/o grandmother is able to access mass everyday on her phone and cast it to the TV once we showed her how it works. So no reason why other organisations couldn't do similar for sports, ok not nearly as good as TV production or being there yourself but better than nothing and there are plenty of platforms that can be used free so cost isn't a barrier.


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    #233
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    For sports in fixed locations have they not tried to bring them to spectators on line?

    My 93 y/o grandmother is able to access mass everyday on her phone and cast it to the TV once we showed her how it works. So no reason why other organisations couldn't do similar for sports, ok not nearly as good as TV production or being there yourself but better than nothing and there are plenty of platforms that can be used free so cost isn't a barrier.

    I've watched club games on my TV. Some via official county board streams, other provided by clubs themselves.


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    #234
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    For sports in fixed locations have they not tried to bring them to spectators on line?

    My 93 y/o grandmother is able to access mass everyday on her phone and cast it to the TV once we showed her how it works. So no reason why other organisations couldn't do similar for sports, ok not nearly as good as TV production or being there yourself but better than nothing and there are plenty of platforms that can be used free so cost isn't a barrier.

    You'll have to get permission of people taking part though, all sorts of rights etc that would need to be cleared possibly.

    Only takes 1 person to object


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    #235
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh yeah that makes sense.


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    #236
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Weepsie wrote: »
    You'll have to get permission of people taking part though, all sorts of rights etc that would need to be cleared possibly.

    Only takes 1 person to object

    There will be no spectators, so you should know who is there in advance, easy to ask for objections before the fact. Road racing should be easier, as its in a public place. The likes of Corkagh and Mondello and several sportives around the country continuously have photographers putting up pictures, I've never been asked for permission from any of them.


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    #237
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,964 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    The GAA depends heavily on gate receipts so is more motivated to stand up for it's interests.
    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    With the 200 limit, that left approx 110 paying spectators at most. Not exactly much coming in via gate receipts is there?....
    I mean that they are more motivated to continue to seek to have the restrictions loosened as they depend heavily on gate receipts.


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    #238
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cliffs of Moher Cycle Challenge now called off.

    Should we change the title to " Will any sportives go ahead in 2021?"


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    #239
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    I just received an email from Eventbrite saying that my entry for the Nicolas Roche Project Sportive is being refunded. There's nothing on their social media channels about it being cancelled, but obviously it is.


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    #240
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    I just received an email from Eventbrite saying that my entry for the Nicolas Roche Project Sportive is being refunded. There's nothing on their social media channels about it being cancelled, but obviously it is.

    Think I saw it's moved to zwift.


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    #241
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I've never been asked for permission from any of them.


    The rights to images from the race are the property of the organisers. By entering you give them permission to use any images including those of you in the event.


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