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So are you single? Argos style....

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Comments

  • #512
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    i_surge wrote: »
    People steal your data all the time. I get unsolicited emails, calls and marketing.

    I agree with you but I think some earlier posters went completely OTT with stories of escalating violence.

    Deal with what happened not what "might happen".

    Does that make it right?

    Also, this is a different context than an annoying sales cold call.

    Unfortunately and what you don't seem to understand, is that the "might happen" scenario is actually a frequent occurrence and so they're right to be on their guard (it's actually smart) and upset in this instance too.

    As a man, I go about my day not thinking of my safety at all really. Women on the other hand and as I had my eyes opened to years ago- actually live by a set of rules designed to keep themselves safe because of what "might happen" all too often. There are self-defence courses aimed specifically at women and in fact my wife's workplace back in the states paid for a police training course in self defence for women. Look up "the list" of rules women have to keep themselves safe in all sorts of situations, seriously.


  • #513
    notsoyoungwan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭notsoyoungwan


    i_surge wrote: »
    I agree with you but I think some earlier posters went completely OTT with stories of escalating violence.

    Deal with what happened not what "might happen".

    But that’s not how we operate in real life. We deal with what might happen all the time. We take out house/health/car/income insurance because of what might happen. We don’t leave our front doors unlocked because of what might happen. We (well certainly women) don’t walk alone down dark alleys at 2am because of what might happen. We don’t leave expensive phones and our credit cards unattended in busy pubs because of what might happen. Heck, we sometimes carry umbrellas because of what might happen.

    And for this woman, she was freaked out about what might happen when a guy who has inappropriately used her phone number to send pushy texts and knows where she lives, gets rejected and might not be too happy about it. He’s already shown himself to be an eejit and have poor judgement and to push boundaries, so it’s not unreasonable to wonder what else he might do.


  • #514
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    .anon. wrote: »
    No, it's not just about likes and comments. I know from bitter experience that you're far more likely to get an immediate response from a company if your complaint is public.

    I was waiting on a refund from a company for something I bought before lockdown, emailed their general and dedicated email in may, no response. Replied to one of their Facebook comments about it in June and they replied to my email less than 10 minutes later.

    Companies don't care about customer service, just the perception of it.


  • #515
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Does that make it right?

    Also, this is a different context than an annoying sales cold call.

    Unfortunately and what you don't seem to understand, is that the "might happen" scenario is actually a frequent occurrence and so they're right to be on their guard (it's actually smart) and upset in this instance too.

    As a man, I go about my day not thinking of my safety at all really. Women on the other hand and as I had my eyes opened to years ago- actually live by a set of rules designed to keep themselves safe because of what "might happen" all too often. There are self-defence courses aimed specifically at women and in fact my wife's workplace back in the states paid for a police training course in self defence for women. Look up "the list" of rules women have to keep themselves safe in all sorts of situations, seriously.

    No definitely not right, I hate it.

    Life is not without risk for anyone, we have rules they just in differ in nature depending on the circumstances. I still think there is a growing culture of disproportionate mistrust in men, it only takes one asshole, I get that but still there is some unfair characterisation, the violence alluded to in this thread never actually happened.


  • #516
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    My friend said '' if you want to know what it's like for a girl, then join Grinder and add a cute pic'' I took her challenge for a social experiment if nothing else, and within 5 minutes of joining I was inundated with messages and dick pics.
    A real eye opener as to what girls deal with daily, especially online.

    Just put your own photo through a feminising filter and put it on Tinder. You'll get another view of things.


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  • #517
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    i_surge wrote: »
    No definitely not right, I hate it.

    Life is not without risk for anyone, we have rules they just in differ in nature depending on the circumstances. I still think there is a growing culture of disproportionate mistrust in men, it only takes one asshole, I get that but still there is some unfair characterisation, the violence alluded to in this thread never actually happened.

    Agree with your starting sentence there. It doesn't have to have happened though. Not everything needs a tragic outcome to justify an action/reaction.


  • #518
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Agree with your starting sentence there. It doesn't have to have happened though. Not everything needs a tragic outcome to justify an action/reaction.

    Sure but how do you calibrate perception of risk to reality?

    Based on the number of times I have gotten off a bus at the same stop as a woman lateish at night and seeing them act paranoid and sketchy when I'm just on my way home and pose no hazard, i think it is a bit off. I cross the road and get as far from them as I can so they can chill out.


  • #519
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    i_surge wrote: »
    Sure but how do you calibrate perception of risk to reality?

    Based on the number of times I have gotten off a bus at the same stop as a woman lateish at night and seeing them act paranoid and sketchy when I'm just on my way home and pose no hazard, i think it is a bit off. I cross the road and get as far from them as I can so they can chill out.

    You leave it up to the person who actually experienced the event to process and react as they're entitled to do.

    Instead of thinking it's a bit off, you could feel sad and empathise that's the reality due to how society's women are treated. Instead of criticising their reactions and actions they take, you could commit to standing up against it in your own life. Obviously starting with yourself and not being a creeper (not at all saying you are). And then whenever it happens around you like a buddy or family member step in and speak up. I think it's great you cross the road to ease their worries. Many men do this.


  • #520
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    You leave it up to the person who actually experienced the event to process and react as they're entitled to do.

    Instead of thinking it's a bit off, you could feel sad that's the reality due to how society's women are treated. Instead of criticising their reactions and actions they take, you could commit to standing up against it in your own life. Obviously starting with yourself and not being a creeper (not at all saying you are). And then whenever it happens around you like a buddy or family member step in and speak up. I think it's great you cross the road to ease their worries. Many men do this.

    I take the opposite view.

    Of course there are risks from scumbag men to innocent women but I feel there is a level of learned paranoia that comes from the media discourse. It is unfair to men to have to cross the road because you can almost smell the fear from a woman who has made a 100% incorrect assessment of the situation.


  • #521
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    i_surge wrote: »
    I take the opposite view.

    Of course there are risks from scumbag men to innocent women but I feel there is a level of learned paranoia that comes from the media discourse. It is unfair to men to have to cross the road because you can almost smell the fear from a woman who has made a 100% incorrect assessment of the situation.

    Well you're entitled to your view, but your opinion there is very dismissive of women's lived experience. I would say it's more unfair on women to have to feel afraid in their daily lives and take measures that keep them safe due to justified assessment in often dangerous situations. My mam once had a woman run up to her and say to please play along someone is following her and they walked together while on the phone with my uncle loudly letting him know their whereabouts. Which reminds me, there's viral tiktoks going around from accounts of men who have recorded themselves as if they're having a conversation about meeting up with the woman who's playing it on speakerphone, for her to use when needed. Things like this are needed because this is their reality. To put it bluntly, you need to inform yourself a bit better on this.


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  • #522
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Well you're entitled to your view, but your opinion there is very dismissive of women's lived experience. I would say it's more unfair on women to have to feel afraid in their daily lives and take measures that keep them safe due to justified assessment in often dangerous situations. My mam once had a woman run up to her and say to please play along someone is following her and they walked together while on the phone with my uncle loudly letting him know their whereabouts. Which reminds me, there's viral tiktoks going around from accounts of men who have recorded themselves as if they're having a conversation about meeting up with the woman who's playing it on speakerphone, for her to use when needed. Things like this are needed because this is their reality. To put it bluntly, you need to inform yourself a bit better on this.

    I think I am well informed, not making light of the issues and don't like the "do better" tone. We can agree to differ.


  • #523
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm sure both of the people involved in this story would be thrilled to know there's 44 pages of conjecture going on about them. Maybe it's time to be done now?


  • #524
    SineadSpears
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭SineadSpears


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm sure both of the people involved in this story would be thrilled to know there's 44 pages of conjecture going on about them. Maybe it's time to be done now?

    :D

    There's something comforting about being around someone who understands your need for silence & space. You don't have to fill the air with words or explanations, they just get it..



  • #525
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    We have one of the last Argos catalogues :(

    Will miss it .....


  • #526
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'm sure both of the people involved in this story would be thrilled to know there's 44 pages of conjecture going on about them. Maybe it's time to be done now?

    Unfollow?


  • #527
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    i_surge wrote: »
    I think I am well informed, not making light of the issues and don't like the "do better" tone. We can agree to differ.

    The two viewpoints are not irreconcilable. You can't dismiss someone's fears based on a potential or perceived danger but you also can't just wave away someone else's unease at being perceived as a latent threat because of what they look like.

    I think if everyone puts themselves in the others' shoes for a minute they could understand the other's point of view even if they don't fully agree.

    Like, imagine every time you go outside you come across one person who stares you down and makes shapes at you. You'll soon enough start having a defensive reaction to everyone that looks like this one person in a hundred that gives off this vibe. And because they don't all look alike you end up being wary of everyone that matches the profile.

    But also imagine that almost every person you know has had one bad experience with a member of a certain group, ethnicity, supporters of a team which happens to be the one you're part of... Imagine that because of this you're expected to move out of the way, change your habits, somehow represent the scumbags that hassle the people you know simply because you share one trait with them.


  • #528
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,266 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Misuse of GDPR to gain information....... Not that different.




    So you reckon that looking at an order form that has been specifically given to you, that has a phone number on it for a customer you are delivering to, who you've talked to in person already, is the same thing, as seeing an attractive girl getting into her car from a distance, taking her car reg plate, ringing a mate in the Gardai, getting him to access their personal info on Pulse (which potentially can contain a lot more than just contact information) and getting the Garda to relay their phone number to you, is the same thing?




    I don't know if you fully comprehend how silly that sounds.


  • #529
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    o1s1n wrote: »
    I suggest you look up the definition of a 'strawman arguement', it might help avoid future pitfalls in your reasoning.

    Nobody is saying it's creepy to ask someone for a date, why? Because that would be a ridiculous notion.

    What people are saying it is is creepy to abuse your position in work to obtain a phone number and use it for personal reasons.


    Feck sake a phone number has feck all value. Anyone can get a person's phone number if they want, but if that person doesn't want to talk to you the number is shag all use to you.



    If you have dozens or hunderds of contacts like most people do you can't realistically expect it to stay a secret.


  • #530
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Imagine that because of this you're expected to move out of the way, change your habits, somehow represent the scumbags that hassle the people you know simply because you share one trait with them.


    I don't follow this. Are you saying this would be a reasonable way to act?

    Anyway as I said I move as far away as I can if a girl is giving off that nervous vibe so she can relax and see I am not a threat. But I'm not not insulted by it.


  • #531
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    The guy can hardly have any complaints about losing his job. It's a crass way to approach a woman, not least because of the confidentiality involved in knowing her address and contact details and her now knowing this.

    That said, it'd be nice if people's primary recourse in these situations was simply to inform his employers directly instead of immediately banging a drum on social media.

    It's unfortunately becoming increasingly harder and harder to distinguish between due cause and narcissism in these cases which is unfortunate as the guy was definitely in the wrong.


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  • #532
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    sales people calling your personal number are a lot more annoying, yet nobody has an issue with the fact our personal phone numbers are shared with other companies who can call us in our homes whenever they want and it's up to us to find our way our of those annoying conversations.
    The guy acted like guys do. No stalker or serial killer behavior here, just a regular guy chancing his arm


  • #533
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    sales people calling your personal number are a lot more annoying, yet nobody has an issue with the fact our personal phone numbers are shared with other companies who can call us in our homes whenever they want and it's up to us to find our way our of those annoying conversations.
    The guy acted like guys do. No stalker or serial killer behavior here, just a regular guy chancing his arm

    That is not regular at all. Most people with sense would know they are risking their job for that.


  • #534
    Errashareesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭Errashareesh


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    sales people calling your personal number are a lot more annoying, yet nobody has an issue with the fact our personal phone numbers are shared with other companies who can call us in our homes whenever they want and it's up to us to find our way our of those annoying conversations.
    The guy acted like guys do. No stalker or serial killer behavior here, just a regular guy chancing his arm
    Company doing so not the same as individual on their personal time/phone.

    It was inappropriate and unprofessional. No matter how harmless (and it likely was, although texting her a question mark after a while when she didn't respond is weird) he shouldn't have done it. I don't know that cold callers are a lot more annoying. They are annoying but not comparable.


  • #535
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    So it sounds like the guy has no self awareness at all. He shouldn't approach her while on the job and certainly not by means in which he had to take her phone number from the capacity of his job. I would think most women would prefer to have the choice whether or not to give out their number depending on whether she's interested. He didn't even work for it (no pun intended)!


  • #536
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,719 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I'm sort of mixed on this. You shouldn't be accessing people's data through your job. A guard would get in trouble for it, a doctor or nurse would lose their job over it, so really the same rules should apply to delivery drivers. But this has been blown out of proportion by some like there needs to be a restraining order.

    As for approarching women in a setting where it's not expected, I stay the hell away from that. The only places I would chance it is online dating sites and maybe in a pub. Even in those settings you get people who love to drama up and get offended (for an audience) that someone thinks they have a chance when they're so much above their league. But it's important to avoid going incel on it and try not to tar an entire gender with a brush dipped in a narrow range of experience. It just sucks to be ugly and boring, but it is what it is. If humans were wild animals a lot of us men would be outcasts from the group looking in at a minority of successful silverbacks.


  • #537
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,378 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

    I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....


  • #538
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,379 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Feck sake a phone number has feck all value. Anyone can get a person's phone number if they want, but if that person doesn't want to talk to you the number is shag all use to you.



    If you have dozens or hunderds of contacts like most people do you can't realistically expect it to stay a secret.

    You're just not getting it, are you?

    It's not about the value of a phone number.

    It's not about keeping a phone number secret.

    It's about using your accesses in work to gain something specifically provided for that work environment only and then use it for personal reasons.

    So can I access the CRM database in my job then and just start ringing people who I like the look of? Phone numbers 'have no value' according to you afterall.


  • #539
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    o1s1n wrote: »
    You're just not getting it, are you?

    It's not about the value of a phone number.

    It's not about keeping a phone number secret.

    It's about using your accesses in work to gain something specifically provided for that work environment only and then use it for personal reasons.

    So can I access the CRM database in my job then and just start ringing people who I like the look of? Phone numbers 'have no value' according to you afterall.


    It depends on what you're saying to them when they answer I suppose


  • #540
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,379 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    It depends on what you're saying to them when they answer I suppose

    So if someone from Eir got your mam/sister's phone number from their work database and rang them to ask if they were single...you wouldn't find that at least a little odd/creepy/over the line?


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  • #541
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    gmisk wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

    I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....

    Got lots of likes though, so every cloud...


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