I bought a car with outstanding finance

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 12:42am #1

Hello to anyone who is reading this.
Just a few days ago I bought a car in Wexford. An Opel Insignia Elite 2.0 CDTI and when I was talking with a friend today, he advised me to do a finance check on the car. Never done this before and he also told me I should have done this before buying the car. I've done the check on Motorcheck.ie. In there it was showing that the car has outstanding finance that started on 31.05.2019 (hire purchase)
I kept reading about it and found out that I can lose my car without doing anything wrong. What are my options? I clicked on the option to verify the finance and I'm waiting for response from Motorcheck.ie.
I don't know what to do. Please help

JamBur · 23-07-2020 12:44am

was it a private sale, or through a garage? Did you contact the seller?

punisher5112 · 23-07-2020 12:45am

It could be slow clearing, contact the seller.

If it's a garage they should clear asap

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 1:06pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

It could be slow clearing, contact the seller.

If it's a garage they should clear asap

It was private seller and not a garage. And now his phone does not ring. No signal. I never bought a car online before. Had few of them but always bought them from friends and their friends so you could say it was relatively safe. Also I never used things like finance to buy anything. I'm so lost, I don't know what to do.

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 1:11pm

Gturek86 wrote: »

It was private seller and not a garage. And now his phone does not ring. No signal. I never bought a car online before. Had few of them but always bought them from friends and their friends so you could say it was relatively safe. Also I never used things like finance to buy anything. I'm so lost, I don't know what to do.

Also, just got a mail from motorcheck.ie saying that the finance is "Not Cleared".

Millionaire only not · 23-07-2020 1:11pm

Gturek86 wrote: »

It was private seller and not a garage. And now his phone does not ring. No signal. I never bought a car online before. Had few of them but always bought them from friends and their friends so you could say it was relatively safe. Also I never used things like finance to buy anything. I'm so lost, I don't know what to do.

I’m afraid your goosed , go to Gardai if u can’t find the seller to see is going to clear the payment.
It’s fraud wasn’t his car to sell or at least he should have cleared it .
Hide the car until it’s sorted as the finance crowd will be looking for it in few months!
Ull have charges extra interest everything he didn’t pay will be added on to it .

Atlantic Dawn · 23-07-2020 1:16pm

Do you know if the person selling it was the name on the logbook/vlc? Did you meet them at their home or somewhere else? If you don't know their address is there any documentation in the car like service history or receipts that might give previous owners details?

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 1:20pm

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I’m afraid your goosed , go to Gardai if u can’t find the seller to see is going to clear the payment.
It’s fraud wasn’t his car to sell or at least he should have cleared it .
Hide the car until it’s sorted as the finance crowd will be looking for it in few months!
Ull have charges extra interest everything he didn’t pay will be added on to it .

What do you mean when you say "Ull have charges extra interest everything he didn't pay will be added on to it" ? Will I have to pay some interests or something?

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 1:22pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Do you know if the person selling it was the name on the logbook/vlc? Did you meet them at their home or somewhere else? If you don't know their address is there any documentation in the car like service history or receipts that might give previous owners details?

I made a picture of the logbook after filling it out. Also I have the slip from the logbook (the one you tear away before posting it.

Fann Linn · 23-07-2020 1:25pm

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I’m afraid your goosed , go to Gardai if u can’t find the seller to see is going to clear the payment.
It’s fraud wasn’t his car to sell or at least he should have cleared it .
Hide the car until it’s sorted as the finance crowd will be looking for it in few months!
Ull have charges extra interest everything he didn’t pay will be added on to it .

Gardai will probably say it's a civil matter.

mickdw · 23-07-2020 1:26pm

What kind of value of car are we talking about?
Did you make all the usual mistakes - bought it off someone whos name wasnt on the logbook?
Bought it at some random carpark?
Did no background checks?

XsApollo · 23-07-2020 1:27pm

The place they do the vehicle ownership is in Shannon.
Garda station is next door.
I would get on to both and see if they can get the owners name and address and also put a stop to the ownership being changed.
They might Not give you the name and address but the Garda might get it for himself.
Then I would pursue him through the Gardai they might make a call or whatever.

punisher5112 · 23-07-2020 1:27pm

Gturek86 wrote: »

I made a picture of the logbook after filling it out. Also I have the slip from the logbook (the one you tear away before posting it.

There is no slip you tear off? Is this in the UK or north?

Ireland is just the vlc and you fill the rear and send it off.

Go straight to the police or Garda depending where you are, you are going to lose the car unless it's cleared. Best case you may be able to do a deal with the finance company but I highly doubt it.

Is it a UK import if in Ireland?

Atlantic Dawn · 23-07-2020 1:34pm

Have you tried going to the address on the logbook/VLC? How the law react will be different if the registered owner didn't sell it to you and someone else did.

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 1:35pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

There is no slip you tear off? Is this in the UK or north?

Ireland is just the vlc and you fill the rear and send it off.

Go straight to the police or Garda depending where you are, you are going to lose the car unless it's cleared. Best case you may be able to do a deal with the finance company but I highly doubt it.

Is it a UK import if in Ireland?

It's an Irish car, I bought it in Wexford and I live in Portlaoise (not an import). Also what I meant by "slip you tear off" is the one with the address that is posted to the new owner. When I was filling the logbook I tore it off and took it. Also made pictures of the whole logbook with addresses and everything.

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 1:37pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Have you tried going to the address on the logbook/VLC?

I just found that out late at night yesterday. Didn't go to that address yet. Wasn't sure what to do and didn't wanted to spoof him just in case and get some advice first.

punisher5112 · 23-07-2020 1:37pm

Was it at a house? Or car park, what year?

Cork Trucker · 23-07-2020 1:39pm

What is owing on the car? What did you pay? The only loser here will be you if the finance isn’t cleared. It would be deemed a civil matter but even if you took a court case and win, recouping the money is another issue, even the sheriff might have difficulty.

drunkmonkey · 23-07-2020 1:52pm

Gturek86 wrote: »

It was private seller and not a garage. And now his phone does not ring. No signal. I never bought a car online before

I've noticed criminals are in the main part stupid, they may have thrown away the sim card, you need to talk to the guards they can put in a request to the mobile networks to find out two things, is the sim card registered to someone and if not is the phone the unregistered sim card was used in registered to someone, if they just do part one they'll probably draw a blank.

What do you mean you bought online? Did you pay online? Where did you meet this person?

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 2:09pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I've noticed criminals are in the main part stupid, they may have thrown away the sim card, you need to talk to the guards they can put in a request to the mobile networks to find out two things, is the sim card registered to someone and if not is the phone the unregistered sim card was used in registered to someone, if they just do part one they'll probably draw a blank.

What do you mean you bought online? Did you pay online? Where did you meet this person?

What I mean saying bought online is that I looked for a car on DoneDeal and arranged a viewing through it. Before when I was buying cars it was through people I know or someone they know and is reliable. Never used sites like carzone or DoneDeal. I paid for the car in cash outside Tesco petrol station in Wexford. During the viewing the guy realised that he brought just one key out of two and went to fetch it. He was gone maybe 5min so it must be close. He was there with his wife and she stayed there with me and my sister's husband. He knows about the cars more than I do but still didn't predict it could turn out this way. I paid 9grand in cash for it. I'm heartbroken.

drunkmonkey · 23-07-2020 2:15pm

Ok get onto the Guards in the nearest station to that Tesco, there should be CCTV, do that now asap ring that station, the speed you chase this up with is crucial, you'll know from your calls logs pretty much the time you need to ask the guards to get the CCTV from. If they suggest it's not their issue say if he's willing to steal from me he may have other stolen goods at his house also say he smelled a little funny like cannabis if having no joy, Sometimes you need to remind them of the bigger picture.

23-07-2020 4:25pm

I don't know much about this kind of stuff, so bear with me for a second.

So, someone bought a car and took out a finance package to pay for it.
They owe, say, €2,000 before its officially theirs.
They can't afford this, so sell the car (perhaps with the intention of paying off the €2,000 or perhaps not)
OP buys the car, and this debt somehow passes on to him?
If the finance isn't cleared they can repo his car? And he's just SOL?
Why is that the case? Surely the finance contract is between the original owner and the garage he bought it from, no?

I've literally never heard of something like that before. I mean, if you bought a house and the original owner decided not to pay off the mortgage and to skip town with the cash, it's not as if the mortgage stays with the house or anything, and it's up to you to clear it. Why is it different with a car? Is this the same as with all HP agreements?

punisher5112 · 23-07-2020 4:34pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know much about this kind of stuff, so bear with me for a second.

So, someone bought a car and took out a finance package to pay for it.
They owe, say, €2,000 before its officially theirs.
They can't afford this, so sell the car (perhaps with the intention of paying off the €2,000 or perhaps not)
OP buys the car, and this debt somehow passes on to him?
If the finance isn't cleared they can repo his car? And he's just SOL?
Why is that the case? Surely the finance contract is between the original owner and the garage he bought it from, no?

I've literally never heard of something like that before. I mean, if you bought a house and the original owner decided not to pay off the mortgage and to skip town with the cash, it's not as if the mortgage stays with the house or anything, and it's up to you to clear it. Why is it different with a car? Is this the same as with all HP agreements?

It wasn't their car to sell.... This is why one must do the checks which are available for a small fee....

Honestly the finance company really should hold the VLC but it's not how it's done unfortunately.

Cork Trucker · 23-07-2020 4:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know much about this kind of stuff, so bear with me for a second.

So, someone bought a car and took out a finance package to pay for it.
They owe, say, €2,000 before its officially theirs.
They can't afford this, so sell the car (perhaps with the intention of paying off the €2,000 or perhaps not)
OP buys the car, and this debt somehow passes on to him?
If the finance isn't cleared they can repo his car? And he's just SOL?
Why is that the case? Surely the finance contract is between the original owner and the garage he bought it from, no?

I've literally never heard of something like that before. I mean, if you bought a house and the original owner decided not to pay off the mortgage and to skip town with the cash, it's not as if the mortgage stays with the house or anything, and it's up to you to clear it. Why is it different with a car? Is this the same as with all HP agreements?

The contract is between the finance company and the debtor, however the vehicle remains the property of the finance company until the final payment or early settlement is made. It will be the debtors credit rating and the unsuspecting buyer who will suffer.

Either way if the payments aren’t made the car will be repossessed no matter who has it.

So the OP will be a car and €9k down unless they take on the debt.

What we don’t know is the year/make/model of the vehicle to try and gauge its worth

antfin · 23-07-2020 4:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've literally never heard of something like that before. I mean, if you bought a house and the original owner decided not to pay off the mortgage and to skip town with the cash, it's not as if the mortgage stays with the house or anything, and it's up to you to clear it. Why is it different with a car? Is this the same as with all HP agreements?

It's very similar to a mortgage in fact or any other legal charge over an asset. The car is security for the loan, the same way as a house is security for a loan when the borrower grants a mortgage to the bank for a house. The lenders interest in the security can't be extinguished simply by transferring the asset used as security otherwise it couldn't be 'secured' lending. The onus is on the purchaser to make sure that they are buying an unencumbered asset that the seller has a right to sell. Removal of the mortgage is part of the process that a solicitor will ensure when purchasing a house. The difference in the case of a car is that people don't use solicitors to effect the sale so you either take the risk by trusting a seller or ensure for yourself that it's not subject to secured finance. It's basically done as part of the same searches as making sure you're not buying a stolen car!

Dempo1 · 23-07-2020 4:45pm

I'm afraid the OP will have to get a solicitor on the case but even that may not resolve this horrendous issue.

A. Gardai will only get involved on foot of a complaint of Fraud.

B. The car is lost and at the very least finance company need to be involved, reported too etc. Hiding car pointless and as painful as it maybe, returned to them but insure you get a receipt, letter, anything to confirm what's occurred.

C. OP can't and shouldn't attempt to register car in their name.

Ultimately a fraud has occurred and legal advice required with the Hope of recouping monies lost by way of the courts.

The seller will now duck and dive and pointless trying to contact them. This was a desperate act.

Finally Done Deal was mentioned, was the car Green light verified (get a screen shot of advert op), whilst done deal may not have responsibility, green light verification is their idea so I would certainly be asking questions of them.

drunkmonkey · 23-07-2020 5:21pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

A. Gardai will only get involved on foot of a complaint of Fraud.

He should make a complaint then, Guards need to get that footage and if he's a local gouger they'll probably know them, Tesco won't give it to OP, GDPR.

Dempo1 · 23-07-2020 5:41pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He should make a complaint then, Guards need to get that footage and if he's a local gouger they'll probably know them, Tesco won't give it to OP, GDPR.

It's doubtful a gouger would have got finance in the first place but I agree, complaint needs to be made to Gardai

Del2005 · 23-07-2020 5:55pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He should make a complaint then, Guards need to get that footage and if he's a local gouger they'll probably know them, Tesco won't give it to OP, GDPR.

Makes no difference the OP handed over the money without duress so it's not a criminal matter, a person I know has their car stolen when they gave the keys over for the test drive. Because they handed the keys over their insurance didn't cover the theft and the Gardai did feck all to try to find the thieve.

The only option for the OP is the circuit court, if they can find the seller, and as another poster said getting a judgement is the easy bit, getting money off someone who doesn't want to give it to you is nearly impossible in this country.

Gturek86 · 23-07-2020 6:02pm

Ok, I will write the whole story again for clarification.

On Saturday 18/07, I found a car on donedeal.ie. (2014 Opel Insignia 2.0 CDTI Elite) with 61000Miles. Advertised for the price of 10K. To be honest, right now I cant even remember whether or not the car was green light verified or not as I have seen hundreds of them car ads in the past month and now the ad is gone. I contacted the seller on the phone and he gave me the address(Home address mind you). I checked it on the map and noticed there is a Tesco car park nearby and proposed for the meeting to be there. Somehow I felt more secure in a more crowded place whilst having money with me.

I got there with my brother in law around 4pm. And few minutes later The guy arrived with his family. It was an older (around 60yo) man with his wife, his friend (or son) and this friend's daughter (looked 12yo). We asked a few questions, looked into the service book which was current with the last service 2 months ago, valid NCT and 12 days left of motor tax. My brother in law inspected the car thoroughly. It took him about half an hour. Afterwards, I went for a test drive with the man whilst my brother in law stayed with the rest of the guy's family. After I got back, my brother in law was the one to take a drive to see if everything else was ok and told me afterwards that all is good with the car. I filled out the logbook, we all counted the money. I made pictures of the filled logbook with the addresses and everything, said our goodbyes and we went home with the car.

Yesterday, a friend of mine mentioned that I should have done the finance check which I didn't even consider was a thing. Didn't know that you get a logbook whilst paying back a car to the bank. The motorcheck.ie showed that there is an outstanding finance on the car taken on 31/05/2019 for 48 months. There was a note there that it might not be 100% acurate as there might be a delay in reports from the bank. So, I clicked on the "Verify finance" option and got an email this morning that there is in fact an outstanding finance with AIB and it is "Not Cleared". The phone to the seller is dead.

I called citizen information today first asking what can I do (No on-site visitations due to covid) and was informed thet there is very little I can do apart from contacting the solicitor, but even then chances of getting back the money might lie between slim and nill.
The gards told me it is a civil matter and I should contact solicitor. I rang a friend who is a manager in Ulster Bank asking whether or not she can advise me something. And right now she is making some calls as I write this.

drunkmonkey · 23-07-2020 6:05pm

Has he any way to get that CCTV besides lying to a Garda, I don't think Tesco have any obligation to give it to anyone else.
If he did happen to get hold of the guy on the phone and he told him to f-off or he'll kill him, it's no longer civil it's criminal then.

I bought a car with outstanding finance

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