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Madeleine McCann

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  • #3062
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Redordeadqwwer wrote: »
    Sorry but this is rediculous. Whether you have kids or not I don't know and don't care but anyone who does, and reads this, knows that it's absolute waffle.

    Read back on my original conversation, we said we look at a possible timeline so it’s not how I’m saying it happened. Read back on the thread instead of questioning about my life outside boards which is none of your business.


  • #3063
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    The Portuguese Police were made out to be bumbling idiots in all this. By the British Press of course.

    Nothing has changed with British Exceptionalism, but when it came to their own, they were throttled, silence and do not go there. Get the drift?


  • #3064
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Not according to Sutton, he says his friend just told him he would be told where he could and couldn’t go. That’s it.

    I’m not sure how any investigation would go if one avenue was totally closed off. It’s just not how they work, they start at the beginning and work from there, the evidence, statements, facts lead the way... at what point does the detective say ‘right stop now, that’s implicating the parents, throw that evidence out and start again.

    Why do you think the Met would decide to tell detectives they are not allowed investigate the parents ?

    I dunno but he said it in that interview that’s linked.


  • #3065
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    So at 10ish Kate leaves out a scream saying they’ve taken her she’s gone but it was Gerry who took her as seen by The Smyths, so he hids her in a place and moves her a few days later, moved her another few times and lastly moves her when they rang the car which (the dogs again alerted to her scent) they bury her in a forest or in a well n leave the back door of the car open for a few days and nights to get rid of the smell of the dead body (which their in laws comment on while using the rented car) that is the timeline you’re looking at if it needs to show if Madeline died accidentally .

    When Gerry moved her a few days later where was Martin Brunt, the Portuguese police, the BBC news team, The Sun The Mirror The Telegraph The Gaurdian The Express Channel 4 news and their police liaison officer?


  • #3066
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Good to see things have moved on to sensible speculation now.

    LOL.

    But anyway.


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  • #3067
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The Portuguese Police were made out to be bumbling idiots in all this. By the British Press of course.

    Nothing has changed with British Exceptionalism, but when it came to their own, they were throttled, silence and do not go there. Get the drift?

    The British police have wasted 12m with no results at all, even Amarals prediction of a German suspect came through and could ultimately be even more damming of the British press and police force if he isn’t charged or found to be involved. Amarals will have had more things right then The Met just on that alone. Doesn’t mean everything he said is right but he knows more then most.


  • #3068
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    The British police have wasted 12m with no results at all, even Amarals prediction of a German suspect came through and could ultimately be even more damming of the British press and police force if he isn’t charged or found to be involved. Amarals will have had more things right then The Met just on that alone. Doesn’t mean everything he said is right but he knows more then most.

    Amaral believes Maddie died in the apartment by accident , I tend to agree with him.


  • #3069
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    splinter65 wrote: »
    When Gerry moved her a few days later where was Martin Brunt, the Portuguese police, the BBC news team, The Sun The Mirror The Telegraph The Gaurdian The Express Channel 4 news and their police liaison officer?

    No idea, that’s the holes in the theory to pick at, it’s only thoughts as it cane into my thinking, nothing concrete obviously so that’s the point to look at it and think nope but maybe this way or Jesus it’s impossible.


  • #3070
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Amaral believes Maddie died in the apartment by accident , I tend to agree with him.

    That hasn’t been questioned or spoken about enough really. It’s a distinct possibility, I don’t think the parents killed her in that regard.


  • #3071
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    The British police have wasted 12m with no results at all, even Amarals prediction of a German suspect came through and could ultimately be even more damming of the British press and police force if he isn’t charged or found to be involved. Amarals will have had more things right then The Met just on that alone. Doesn’t mean everything he said is right but he knows more then most.

    He was a brave man to take the McCanns on in a court case, write a book about it etc.

    I'd say the fund is fkd now and probably rightly so. They sued everyone who boo'd at them. But Amaral had the cojones to take them on.


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  • #3072
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    David Payne can be removed and just them involved (everyone must have read the post we started this convo on before calling me a looney or whatever, we are playing devils advocate) trying to show a possible timeline or that it’s improbable. Anyway it could of been the accident we all spoke of after the dogs alerted to behind the couch then the wardrobe/storage area would go with the evidence of the dogs. She could of been hidden in plain sight and possibly put in a well that very night in a state of panic, ppl are known have done the craziest things for self preservation.

    Ok so Gerry came home from tennis after 7 I believe.. they sat down for dinner at what??? I can’t remember 9?? Doesn’t give them long to clean up blood so well that not a trace is found, hide the child’s body, shower and get ready..

    Then there’s the fact that Gerry and Kate and sitting, drinking, laughing while minutes before they stuffed their daughters dead body into a wardrobe..... I think we can both agree that it would take a special kind of crazy person to be able to do that


  • #3073
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    Right just a quick thought process, okay Madeline is collected from the crèche at 5:30pm, Kate brings them to the house for food and change of clothes, Madeline is her usual boisterous self and Kate is trying to mind the twins and get them ready for bed too but Madeline is acting the maggot and super wound up Runs up onto the sofa but slips and bangs her head fatally, David Payne comes up to check on Kate n the kids, here where the discrepancy lies with (Kate saying he was there for 30 secs but Gerry says 30 mins) so David returns after trying to date Madeline but fails so he gets Gerry. So Payne is Gerrys closet mate so they say in panic we could lose our licence if Madeline is found dead and in a panic they plan to get rid of Madeleines body. The twins are given calpol strong enough to put them to sleep. So they hatch a plan to get rid of the body later in the night and move her body to the press ( where the dog alerted) So when Gerry goes to check but didn’t go into the room on his last check ( cause he knows she’s dead so just trying to plan how to get her out) I’ll continue

    Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, children fall and injure themselves and even die every single day while playing through no fault of their own or their parents.
    If Madeleine was being ‘boisterous’ and fell and smacked her head while under the supervision of Kate, why on earth would they have to cover that up and why on earth would they be worried about losing their medical licenses?
    They would have absolutely nothing to fear and nothing to cover up because accidents like that happen every single day.

    There was a heartbreaking case of an unsecured fireplace falling on a GAA players toddler daughter last year and she unfortunately died, and no one felt anything but pity and sorrow for her poor parents because everyone knows that freak accidents like that can happen.

    So the notion that Madeleine fell while playing and hit her head, and that Kate & Gerry’s automatic reaction was to cover up her death & dispose of her corpse with the help of 7 of their friends, because they’d lose their medical licenses (why????) is just absolutely absurd to me.

    They would have had no reason to stage an abduction, as doctors they would have been quite aware that these things happen and they would have known it would have been considered a tragic accident with no negligence on their part.
    We wouldn’t even know Madeleines name if that was what had happened because it would have been a non story. If she died from hitting her head while messing about her parents would have had no motive whatsoever to lie about that.


  • #3074
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Ok so Gerry came home from tennis after 7 I believe.. they sat down for dinner at what??? I can’t remember 9?? Doesn’t give them long to clean up blood so well that not a trace is found, hide the child’s body, shower and get ready..

    Then there’s the fact that Gerry and Kate and sitting, drinking, laughing while minutes before they stuffed their daughters dead body into a wardrobe..... I think we can both agree that it would take a special kind of crazy person to be able to do that

    Was the night before. The girl twin was signed in on the day, obvious.

    I must write a book about a similar thing now.


  • #3075
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    No idea, that’s the holes in the theory to pick at, it’s only thoughts as it cane into my thinking, nothing concrete obviously so that’s the point to look at it and think nope but maybe this way or Jesus it’s impossible.

    But that puts your theory lock stock and barrel in the rubbish bin. That entire theory is nonsense from beginning to end because it’s simply not possible for anyone other then an abductor to have left ocean club with Maddie dead or alive.
    That’s why the idea that the McCanns hadanything to do with her disappearance is just not possible.


  • #3076
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, children fall and injure themselves and even die every single day while playing through no fault of their own or their parents.
    If Madeleine was being ‘boisterous’ and fell and smacked her head while under the supervision of Kate, why on earth would they have to cover that up and why on earth would they be worried about losing their medical licenses?
    They would have absolutely nothing to fear and nothing to cover up because accidents like that happen every single day.

    There was a heartbreaking case of an unsecured fireplace falling on a GAA players toddler daughter last year and she unfortunately died, and no one felt anything but pity and sorrow for her poor parents because everyone knows that freak accidents like that can happen.

    So the notion that Madeleine fell while playing and hit her head, and that Kate & Gerry’s automatic reaction was to cover up her death & dispose of her corpse with the help of 7 of their friends, because they’d lose their medical licenses (why????) is just absolutely absurd to me.

    They would have had no reason to stage an abduction, as doctors they would have been quite aware that these things happen and they would have known it would have been considered a tragic accident with no negligence on their part.
    We wouldn’t even know Madeleines name if that was what had happened because it would have been a non story. If she died from hitting her head while messing about her parents would have had no motive whatsoever to lie about that.

    They could have been terrified about neglect having left the babies for many nights on their own with doors unlocked.

    I would never do it, but off you go and absolve them from any responsibility whatsoever.


  • #3077
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, children fall and injure themselves and even die every single day while playing through no fault of their own or their parents.
    If Madeleine was being ‘boisterous’ and fell and smacked her head while under the supervision of Kate, why on earth would they have to cover that up and why on earth would they be worried about losing their medical licenses?
    They would have absolutely nothing to fear and nothing to cover up because accidents like that happen every single day.

    There was a heartbreaking case of an unsecured fireplace falling on a GAA players toddler daughter last year and she unfortunately died, and no one felt anything but pity and sorrow for her poor parents because everyone knows that freak accidents like that can happen.

    So the notion that Madeleine fell while playing and hit her head, and that Kate & Gerry’s automatic reaction was to cover up her death & dispose of her corpse with the help of 7 of their friends, because they’d lose their medical licenses (why????) is just absolutely absurd to me.

    They would have had no reason to stage an abduction, as doctors they would have been quite aware that these things happen and they would have known it would have been considered a tragic accident with no negligence on their part.
    We wouldn’t even know Madeleines name if that was what had happened because it would have been a non story. If she died from hitting her head while messing about her parents would have had no motive whatsoever to lie about that.

    Kate and Gerry out having drinks with their buddies ,children unattended as they were 3 nights previous. Maddie has an accident and dies, doubtful there would be lots of sympathy for a couple on the wine when their daughter died. Just putting it out there.


  • #3078
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    splinter65 wrote: »
    But that puts your theory lock stock and barrel in the rubbish bin. That entire theory is nonsense from beginning to end because it’s simply not possible for anyone other then an abductor to have left ocean club with Maddie dead or alive.
    That’s why the idea that the McCanns hadanything to do with her disappearance is just not possible.

    Go easy Splinter, we are just seeing if we could come up with a theory..I don’t think either of us believes it to be true. I think it just highlights the fact that it couldn’t be true!


  • #3079
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    So at 10ish Kate leaves out a scream saying they’ve taken her she’s gone but it was Gerry who took her as seen by The Smyths, so he hids her in a place and moves her a few days later, moved her another few times and lastly moves her when they rang the car which (the dogs again alerted to her scent) they bury her in a forest or in a well n leave the back door of the car open for a few days and nights to get rid of the smell of the dead body (which their in laws comment on while using the rented car) that is the timeline you’re looking at if it needs to show if Madeline died accidentally .

    It wasn't Gerry the Smyths saw. A person can't be in two places at once.

    The reason people end up sounding silly when trying to shoehorn an accidental death/body dumping in the timeline (and at least you tried, unlike most), is because it's almost impossible to come up with anything even remotely coherent or believable.

    Whatever theory someone comes up with, there are so many reasons to dismiss them, based on witness statements, logistics, lack of solid evidence etc. I won't even start on motive, as I haven't heard a single believable motive for doing such an abhorrent thing in the first place!

    Without far fetched scenarios and conspiracy theories, it's fair to say there really isn't any remotely credible way they could have done it.


  • #3080
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Ok so Gerry came home from tennis after 7 I believe.. they sat down for dinner at what??? I can’t remember 9?? Doesn’t give them long to clean up blood so well that not a trace is found, hide the child’s body, shower and get ready..

    Then there’s the fact that Gerry and Kate and sitting, drinking, laughing while minutes before they stuffed their daughters dead body into a wardrobe..... I think we can both agree that it would take a special kind of crazy person to be able to do that

    Yes indeed. Might not have been any blood or not a while lot to clean up. Trauma to the head. I’m going on the dogs findings. If they did do it then they would of had to play as normal as they could around the Tapas 7 so that could explain them laughing and joking. Was the half hour check an every night thing or on this night alone? The most probable if she did hit her head is that the incident happened much later to Madeline and they found her dead and in a blind panic disposed of the body rather then child found dead, parents were over the limit of drinks and then the neglect on top of all that, Licence lost and careers over in a flash. Houdini wouldn’t of had a patch for them to do it in that short of a timeline, that would of needed it planned or Madeline traded into a trafficking ring which is even more crazy.


  • #3081
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    splinter65 wrote: »
    But that puts your theory lock stock and barrel in the rubbish bin. That entire theory is nonsense from beginning to end because it’s simply not possible for anyone other then an abductor to have left ocean club with Maddie dead or alive.
    That’s why the idea that the McCanns hadanything to do with her disappearance is just not possible.

    Read the thread (anyone else commenting on this thinking I think this is what happened do yourself a favor first)


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  • #3082
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    AAAAnd we are back! Those who choose to absolve neglecting parents are here again.

    Now that the German guy is out of the frame re Madeleine. Handy that.


  • #3083
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    They could have been terrified about neglect having left the babies for many nights on their own with doors unlocked.

    I would never do it, but off you go and absolve them from any responsibility whatsoever.

    Why? What would them leaving their children alone the previous nights have to do with Madeleine accidentally smacking her head while under the supervision of her mother?
    And why would they then come up with a cover story that involves neglecting their kids again, as part of the abduction plot?

    Would it not be far more straightforward to call the police & ambulance and explain their child fell and smacked her head while being boisterous, as children very frequently do?
    How is that less logical than leaving their children unsupervised again in an unlocked apartment in order to fake a kidnapping? It beggars belief that you even think that that’s a plausible theory. Straw clutching springs to mind.

    I’m not absolving them of anything, I just get no joy out of twisting the knife into two people who have had their lives ruined and are paying the highest price for their mistake, but as you were.


  • #3084
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Was the night before. The girl twin was signed in on the day, obvious.

    I must write a book about a similar thing now.

    All of this was plotted by parents who’d found the child they longed for and had through IVF dead suddenly on a family holiday?
    And not one of the Tapas 7 showed any sign of stress or distress or strain or trauma at any stage after “agreeing” to go along with this diabolical plot?
    And not one of them (totally ordinary plain boring English people) during intense interrogation by the Portuguese police slipped up or cracked or were overcome with guilt?
    Or have ever ever in the following years blurted it out/decided to come clean ?
    Are you mad?


  • #3085
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    dark crystal wrote: »
    It wasn't Gerry the Smyths saw. A person can't be in two places at once.

    The reason people end up sounding silly when trying to shoehorn an accidental death/body dumping in the timeline (and at least you tried, unlike most), is because it's almost impossible to come up with anything even remotely coherent or believable.

    Whatever theory someone comes up with, there are so many reasons to dismiss them, based on witness statements, logistics, lack of solid evidence etc. I won't even start on motive, as I haven't heard a single believable motive for doing such an abhorrent thing in the first place!

    Without far fetched scenarios and conspiracy theories, it's fair to say there really isn't any remotely credible way they could have done it.

    Isn’t it amazing how the thread has moved to discussing a theory of how the parents could be involved. People are discussing timelines and so on but there are some posters desperately trying to drag the conversation off that topic even though one of the says they believe the child died accidentally in the apt.

    These posters are that desperate not to discuss a timeline that they have posted in quick succession reminding us that the McCanns left their kids alone to go drinking.... funny that


  • #3086
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Why? What would them leaving their children alone the previous nights have to do with Madeleine accidentally smacking her head while under the supervision of her mother?
    And why would they then come up with a cover story that involves neglecting their kids again, as part of the abduction plot?

    Would it not be far more straightforward to call the police & ambulance and explain their child fell and smacked her head while being boisterous, as children very frequently do?
    How is that less logical than leaving their children unsupervised again in an unlocked apartment in order to fake a kidnapping? It beggars belief that you even think that that’s a plausible theory. Straw clutching springs to mind.

    I’m not absolving them of anything, I just get no joy out of twisting the knife into two people who have had their lives ruined and are paying the highest price for their mistake, but as you were.

    With due respect to the disappeared child, we are just shooting the breeze here now 13 years later.

    No one knows what happened, do you?


  • #3087
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Kate and Gerry out having drinks with their buddies ,children unattended as they were 3 nights previous. Maddie has an accident and dies, doubtful there would be lots of sympathy for a couple on the wine when their daughter died. Just putting it out there.

    Maddie has an accident and dies....take it from there. Let’s hear it.


  • #3088
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    AAAAnd we are back! Those who choose to absolve neglecting parents are here again.

    Now that the German guy is out of the frame re Madeleine. Handy that.

    It’s literally the only point you have. Every post you have made on every thread across this forum has been about their neglect. There is absolutely no need to continue repeating yourself ad nauseam.

    And still no timeline offered up. You’d be forgiven for thinking some people here are only interested in abusing Madeleine’s parents and not in the case details.


  • #3089
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Maddie has an accident and dies....take it from there. Let’s hear it.

    There is absolutely no way he will take it from there.......


  • #3090
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    With due respect to the disappeared child, we are just shooting the breeze here now 13 years later.

    No one knows what happened, do you?

    We don’t know what happened. That doesn’t mean you can step into that darkness and slander and condemn people who can’t answer back.
    That’s just badness.


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  • #3091
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    With due respect to the disappeared child, we are just shooting the breeze here now 13 years later.

    No one knows what happened, do you?

    Isn't it weird how some posters spend time discussing other posters instead of what is posted, do you find that strange? Struck me earlier how odd that actually is, I don't think I have ever seen a thread where that behaviour is so rampant.


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