BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

07-07-2020 02:39PM

Overheal wrote: »

There’s no rush to ignore anything.

Sure, there is. The focus is placed squarely on the police. As you have just reinforced with your response. No mention of any responsibility by the Black people themselves who were shot for doing whatever they were doing.

If the police are broken as an institution how else do you plan to address criminal and violent behavior???

Clearly, if we want to address that behavior we are compelled to reform police so they can, effectively, address those problems in turn.

Well, since you led with the police being broken, we'd have to fix the police. Lead the question much?

As it is I am thoroughly convinced by all evidence to date that disproportionate rates of crime by blacks is cause and effect with over policing of blacks stretching back hundreds of years, with no modern revolution in this regard. I commit petty victimless crimes all the time, if there was a cop on every corner looking to harass me I’d have a record as long as my arm too. But these white suburbs are just not where cops have been conditioned to spend the majority of their time.

Whereas I'm thoroughly convinced that Black culture is as much to blame for it. Not solely responsible, but definitely plays a large part in encouraging broken homes, domestic violence, youth gangs, street violence, etc. A culture that promotes the role-models of gangsters, murderers, pimps and drug dealers through music and pop culture.

I genuinely feel that things will not improve dramatically for Black people even if the Police were completely reformed, because they would still be facing the same crime in their own neighborhoods, and still having such high rates of Black on Black homicides. No doubt you'll say that they need funding for education, better services, employment etc, and I'll continue to point back to the realities of the situation.

Black culture and Black people are just as responsible for their situation... external factors definitely contribute but Black people themselves need to change how they treat other black people, and how they interact with others.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 02:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure, there is. The focus is placed squarely on the police. As you have just reinforced with your response. No mention of any responsibility by the Black people themselves who were shot for doing whatever they were doing.

Well, since you led with the police being broken, we'd have to fix the police. Lead the question much?

Whereas I'm thoroughly convinced that Black culture is as much to blame for it. Not solely responsible, but definitely plays a large part in encouraging broken homes, domestic violence, youth gangs, street violence, etc. A culture that promotes the role-models of gangsters, murderers, pimps and drug dealers through music and pop culture.

I genuinely feel that things will not improve dramatically for Black people even if the Police were completely reformed, because they would still be facing the same crime in their own neighborhoods, and still having such high rates of Black on Black homicides. No doubt you'll say that they need funding for education, better services, employment etc, and I'll continue to point back to the realities of the situation.

Black culture and Black people are just as responsible for their situation... external factors definitely contribute but Black people themselves need to change how they treat other black people, and how they interact with others.

Black culture, as you put it, is a wholly American creation. We brought them over here in slave ships. We caged them in squalor, raped them, and whipped them for educating themselves. In the years following slavery we lynched them for so much as looking at white people in a way we felt was too threatening to our rule. We segregated them, beat them, tear gassed them, and labeled them super predators. We poisoned them and used them as unwitting subjects in experiments. We injected them with syphilis. We criminalized them for being out after dark. We persecuted the biracial and to this day still view blacks trying to integrate into ‘normal society’ with suspicion. Black families in nice neighborhoods “don’t belong here.” We assassinated their role models. Black culture is everything we made it to be.

And I will reiterate time and again if you want to hold those crimes to task you need to police them, which you cannot do with a broken police institution, so again, that problem will be corrected in turn once there is an institution established to justly tackle it.

Tell me how · 07-07-2020 02:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Whereas I'm thoroughly convinced that Black culture is as much to blame for it. Not solely responsible, but definitely plays a large part in encouraging broken homes, domestic violence, youth gangs, street violence, etc. A culture that promotes the role-models of gangsters, murderers, pimps and drug dealers through music and pop culture.

There are pretty clear lines from slavery, the emancipation act, the for profit prison industry, Jim crow laws, red lining and police practices which cannot be ignored in how they have helped create this 'culture' you talk of.

Or, if not, where do you think the culture originated from?

Can you point to similar practices amongst the ascendant homelands of the modern day Americans throughout Africa?

07-07-2020 03:01PM

Overheal wrote: »

Black culture, as you put it, is a wholly American creation. We brought them over here in slave ships. We caged them in squalor, raped them, and whipped them for educating themselves. In the years following slavery we lynched them for so much as looking at white people in a way we felt was too threatening to our rule. We segregated them, beat them, tear gassed them, and labeled them super predators. We poisoned them and used them as unwitting subjects in experiments. We injected them with syphilis. We criminalized them for being out after dark. We persecuted the biracial and to this day still view blacks trying to integrate into ‘normal society’ with suspicion. Black families in nice neighborhoods “don’t belong here.” We assassinated their role models. Black culture is everything we made it to be.

So.. AA culture (yes, I should have said AA instead of Black culture) is entirely created by white people? That's awfully convenient, and inaccurate.

I see little point in expanding my points since it's clear where you stand. Fair enough. All the same, I believe this victim narrative being pushed does nothing to help AA in the US, and a lack of responsibility for their own behavior, will simply allow that behavior to continue... just continuing to blame external factors for it existing.

And I will reiterate time and again if you want to hold those crimes to task you need to police them, which you cannot do with a broken police institution, so again, that problem will be corrected in turn once there is an institution established to justly tackle it.

I have no issue with the Police being reformed. It needs to be done... but so too does there need to be reform regarding the values promoted within AA culture.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 03:07PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So.. AA culture (yes, I should have said AA instead of Black culture) is entirely created by white people? That's awfully convenient, and inaccurate.

I see little point in expanding my points since it's clear where you stand. Fair enough. All the same, I believe this victim narrative being pushed does nothing to help AA in the US, and a lack of responsibility for their own behavior, will simply allow that behavior to continue... just continuing to blame external factors for it existing.

I have no issue with the Police being reformed. It needs to be done... but so too does there need to be reform regarding the values promoted within AA culture.

Well it sure isn’t Swahili culture or Somali culture my man. We bred that culture out of them. They don’t have any culture left that we didn’t give them. We made them a criminal class so of course they are going to wear that like a badge of honor across multiple generations.

This is not saying they are excused for crimes, go away with that.

TomTomTim · 07-07-2020 03:11PM

Overheal wrote: »

We made them a criminal class so of course they are going to wear that like a badge of honor across multiple generations.

This is not saying they are excused for crimes, go away with that.

AAs should hate people like you. You treat them like invalids with no autonomy. It's so condescending.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 03:11PM

TomTomTim wrote: »

AAs should hate people like you. You treat them like invalids with no autonomy. It's so condescending.

Bless your heart.

07-07-2020 03:12PM

Overheal wrote: »

Well it sure isn’t Swahili culture or Somali culture my man. We bred that culture out of them. They don’t have any culture left that we didn’t give them. We made them a criminal class so of course they are going to wear that like a badge of honor across multiple generations.

it's fine... I get it. They're victims in every way possible and therefore powerless to establish better cultural norms. Okie Dokie.

This is not saying they are excused for crimes, go away with that.

Not what I said.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 03:12PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it's fine... I get it. They're victims in every way possible and therefore powerless to establish better cultural norms. Okie Dokie.

Not what I said.

MLK tried to establish better cultural norms. What became of him?

cfuserkildare · 07-07-2020 03:19PM

Overheal wrote: »

I’m an American and they are my brethren.

You can shove off somewhere else if you think you need to be black to care about what happens to blacks or to be Jewish to care about the holocaust or or or.

George Floyd wasn’t convicted of any crime which resulted in his death. Your priors have no bearing on whether you deserve to die in police custody. Nobody deserves to die in police custody. It’s an awfully decrepit state of mind to suggest otherwise.

It's must be great to be Sooo judgemental, Huh?

Someone died in a bad way, 3500 miles away, and yet You have nothing better to do with your time than cast opinions on a subject that has Absolutely no bearing on your life!!

Sad. ☹️

07-07-2020 03:20PM

Overheal wrote: »

MLK tried to establish better cultural norms. What became of him?

He was shot. Amazing man. He was also extremely successful facing a much stronger opposition to AA freedoms. What has the AA community achieved since then, in terms of improving their cultural norms?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uh2zj0GgAY

just 15 minutes. worth considering.

Tell me how · 07-07-2020 03:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He was shot. Amazing man. He was also extremely successful facing a much stronger opposition to AA freedoms. What has the AA community achieved since then, in terms of improving their cultural norms?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uh2zj0GgAY

just 15 minutes. worth considering.

Had their first AA President.

07-07-2020 03:41PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Had their first AA President.

which doesn't relate to my point.

Hannibal36 · 07-07-2020 03:51PM

Overheal wrote: »

Black culture, as you put it, is a wholly American creation. We brought them over here in slave ships. We caged them in squalor, raped them, and whipped them for educating themselves. In the years following slavery we lynched them for so much as looking at white people in a way we felt was too threatening to our rule. We segregated them, beat them, tear gassed them, and labeled them super predators. We poisoned them and used them as unwitting subjects in experiments. We injected them with syphilis. We criminalized them for being out after dark. We persecuted the biracial and to this day still view blacks trying to integrate into ‘normal society’ with suspicion. Black families in nice neighborhoods “don’t belong here.” We assassinated their role models. Black culture is everything we made it to be.

And I will reiterate time and again if you want to hold those crimes to task you need to police them, which you cannot do with a broken police institution, so again, that problem will be corrected in turn once there is an institution established to justly tackle it.

We,we ,we well you might have done all that and feel guilty but i can say with my hand on heart i had no part in it,you want to keep saying we and take some collective blame for what some wealthy aristocrats done in the past then you have at it,but don't try and lump us all into your Weak White status.

By your logic i am owed by the English and they still are keeping us down,they stole our language,i want reparations from every English person i meet,.But no i don't lay any blame on them i know there are just a common man like me who owe me nothing or carry any blame whatsoever for historic crimes,you on the other hand are sowing division with your talk of historic crimes,what if the media kept making films and kept writing stories about English historic crimes here.

And reality is its people like you that are the real racists.

"Black Culture is everything we made it to be" you believe you are better than Blacks.You want to take away everything from them now,you want to take credit for their culture,you made their culture,you are the great White man responsible for every facet of who they are,no credit for them for forming their own culture while being repressed no no it was all down to you,Great White man that you are.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 03:57PM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

We,we ,we well you might have done all that and feel guilty but i can say with my hand on heart i had no part in it,you want to keep saying we and take some collective blame for what some wealthy aristocrats done in the past then you have at it,but don't try and lump us all into your Weak White status.

By your logic i am owed by the English and they still are keeping us down,they stole our language,i want reparations from every English person i meet,.But no i don't lay any blame on them i know there are just a common man like me who owe me nothing or carry any blame whatsoever for historic crimes,you on the other hand are sowing division with your talk of historic crimes,what if the media kept making films and kept writing stories about English historic crimes here.

And reality is its people like you that are the real racists.

"Black Culture is everything we made it to be" you believe you are better than Blacks.You want to take away everything from them now,you want to take credit for their culture,you made their culture,you are the great White man responsible for every facet of who they are,no credit for them for forming their own culture while being repressed no no it was all down to you,Great White man that you are.

Unlike you I acknowledge the part the white majority has played in shaping black culture. It’s not “taking credit” for it. These attempts to smear me for pointing out the difficult truth is comical.

Hannibal36 · 07-07-2020 04:06PM

Overheal wrote: »

Unlike you I acknowledge the part the white majority has played in shaping black culture. It’s not “taking credit” for it. These attempts to smear me for pointing out the difficult truth is comical.

It just shows your racism imo,you want to take collective pride in White achievements and collective blame in their failings.

I take no pride in what some random White guy did in the past or achieved just because his skin is a similar colour than mine.

You on the other hand see life in terms of groups of people with skin color .Every Healthy Baby no matter skin colour has exactly the same potential the minute they are born genetics plays no part in human intelligence.Its all about how that healthy baby is raised,we are all the same as much as you would like to sow division with your White superiority mindset.

You White people want to keep reminding Blacks remember when we had you as slaves to feel superior.I would be sick of hearing stories about English superiority here if i had to listen to people like you harp on all the time about historical rapes and terrible crimes that absolutely happened here in Ireland,but thankfully we don't have to listen to as much of it as Black Americans do.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 04:09PM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

It just shows your racism imo,you want to take collective pride in White achievements and collective blame in their failings.

I take no pride in what some random White guy did in the past or achieved just because his skin is a similar colour than mine.

You on the other hand see life in terms of groups of people with skin color .Every Healthy Baby no matter skin colour has exactly the same potential the minute they are born genetics plays no part in human intelligence.Its all about how that healthy baby is raised,we are all the same as much as you would like to sow division with your White superiority mindset.

What color is the sky in your world?

Clearly, you have no idea who I am but deem fit to project a lot of your hang ups on me.

Tell me oh tell me where I took pride in white achievements? I’m baffled lol

White privilege is not a function of genetic potential, I have no idea why you are going down that rabbit hole.

Hannibal36 · 07-07-2020 04:20PM

Overheal wrote: »

What color is the sky in your world?

Clearly, you have no idea who I am but deem fit to project a lot of your hang ups on me.

Tell me oh tell me where I took pride in white achievements? I’m baffled lol

White privilege is not a function of genetic potential, I have no idea why you are going down that rabbit hole.

I am not going down any Rabbit hole,you want to take collective responsibility for previous crimes committed by White People.You want to take collective credit for Black Culture,i mean you said we enough times,now you are going to deny it.

Surely if you take collective Blame for White historical crime then you want to take collective Pride in their achievements.I mean it would be illogical to just take the credit for the bad stuff and not take any credit for the good stuff.

07-07-2020 04:21PM

I'm lost. This discussion has entered la la land.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 04:23PM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

I am not going down any Rabbit hole,you want to take collective responsibility for previous crimes committed by White People.You want to take collective credit for their Culture i mean you said we enough times,now you are going to deny it.

Surely if you take collective Blame for White historical crime then you want to take collective Pride in their achievements.I mean it would be illogical to just take the credit for the bad stuff and not take any credit for the good stuff.

You’re talking complete nonsense at this stage, and appear to be contorting yourself in knots to ‘infer’ these conclusions from my posts. I don’t know what else to tell you, but blaming blacks for their culture while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge the overarching influences upon that culture is utterly farcical.

I’m still waiting to hear what “white achievements” I am taking credit for? If you think lynchings, Jim Crow, or the Tuskegee Experiment are “achievements,” then you are entirely lost and I haven’t a map for you.

Hannibal36 · 07-07-2020 04:35PM

Overheal wrote: »

You’re talking complete nonsense at this stage, and appear to be contorting yourself in knots to ‘infer’ these conclusions from my posts. I don’t know what else to tell you, but blaming blacks for their culture while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge the overarching influences upon that culture is utterly farcical.

I’m still waiting to hear what “white achievements” I am taking credit for? If you think lynchings, Jim Crow, or the Tuskegee Experiment are “achievements,” then you are entirely lost and I haven’t a map for you.

You know you are losing when you got to take out the petty insults.

So Whites achieved nothing good in history either?So you want to just say historically White people only did bad things and you want to take responsibility for it all.

Rubbish,you want to keep harping on about the days of Black Slavery to feel superior and remind them of the times the White man enslaved them.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 04:41PM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

You know you are losing when you got to take out the petty insults.

Roll for self awareness, please. :pac:

Hannibal36 wrote: »

And reality is its people like you that are the real racists.

[...] you believe you are better than Blacks.You want to take away everything from them now,you want to take credit for their culture,you made their culture,you are the great White man responsible for every facet of who they are,no credit for them for forming their own culture while being repressed no no it was all down to you,Great White man that you are.

Hannibal36 wrote: »

It just shows your racism imo,you want to take collective pride in White achievements and collective blame in their failings.

[...]

You on the other hand see life in terms of groups of people with skin color

[...] we are all the same as much as you would like to sow division with your White superiority mindset

You White people want to keep reminding Blacks remember when we had you as slaves to feel superior

The only one losing here by your own logic is you.

Hannibal36 · 07-07-2020 04:46PM

Overheal wrote: »

Roll for self awareness, please.

The only one losing here by your own logic is you.

Where is the petty insults,pretty weak man.

If you think calling out your racism is a petty insult then fair play but what else can i call it without it insulting you.If someone calls me a racist i wouldn't take it as an insult unless it was true.

I would just take it as someone who has the wrong idea of who i was because i am not a racist,i already know that.You on the other hand aren't sure if you are a racist or not,that's part of where your White guilt is coming from.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 04:47PM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Where is the petty insults,pretty weak man.

If you think calling out your racism is a petty insult then fair play but what else can i call it without it insulting you.If someone calls me a racist i wouldn't take it as an insult unless it was true.

I would just take it as someone who has the wrong idea of who i was because i am not a racist,i already know that.You on the other hand aren't sure if you are a racist or not,that's part of where your White guilt is coming from.

And you rolled a 1. Wow.

Hannibal36 · 07-07-2020 05:05PM

Overheal wrote: »

And you rolled a 1. Wow.

Nice switching up from the Collective Pride and Blame you want to take,wp man haha.

But we both know i am right,strawman and move the goalposts all u want, doesn't bother me,you exposed your mindset here,then came the switch up and moving of goalposts.

You want collective Blame i mean you said we about 20 times and now you are denying that? Or you are saying you only want to take collective Blame for White crimes but no pride for anything good achieved by the White man.That makes no sense.

Take the loss like a man and move on,i got nothing more to say on it because i get you are in a hole now.So its not an exchange of ideas anymore it's just you trying to safe face and get out quick.

Overheal · 07-07-2020 05:12PM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Nice switching up from the Collective Pride and Blame you want to take,wp man haha.

But we both know i am right,strawman and move the goalposts all u want, doesn't bother me,you exposed your mindset here,then came the switch up and moving of goalposts.

You want collective Blame i mean you said we about 20 times and now you are denying that? Or you are saying you only want to take collective Blame for White crimes but no pride for anything good achieved by the White man.That makes no sense.

Take the loss like a man and move on,i got nothing more to say on it because i get you are in a hole now.So its not an exchange of ideas anymore it's just you trying to safe face and get out quick.

As I said you are entirely lost and projecting things on to me you clearly picked up elsewhere. I’m the man not the ball.

southstar · 07-07-2020 05:35PM

Overheal wrote: »

Black culture, as you put it, is a wholly American creation. We brought them over here in slave ships. We caged them in squalor, raped them, and whipped them for educating themselves. In the years following slavery we lynched them for so much as looking at white people in a way we felt was too threatening to our rule. We segregated them, beat them, tear gassed them, and labeled them super predators. We poisoned them and used them as unwitting subjects in experiments. We injected them with syphilis. We criminalized them for being out after dark. We persecuted the biracial and to this day still view blacks trying to integrate into ‘normal society’ with suspicion. Black families in nice neighborhoods “don’t belong here.” We assassinated their role models. Black culture is everything we made it to be.

And I will reiterate time and again if you want to hold those crimes to task you need to police them, which you cannot do with a broken police institution, so again, that problem will be corrected in turn once there is an institution established to justly tackle it.[/quote

Good Lord the guilt ridden royal We ... I'd say my father never saw a black person in the flesh before the age of 50....and what they might have saw on TV as early as 1970s would have included accounts of racism particularly from the US..to which they would be sympathetic towards.Push the clock on..amid despite huge advances for black people and acknowledgment of inequalities you've got this race industry that gorges itself on flaying white guilt..packaged sold and exported without any sense of self reflection or shame.Truly the few occassions I've dealt with racism were mainly blacks towards whites. ...but not exclusively..accompanied by a breathtaking self righteousness..Jesus there was a video posted earlier in the thread showing the brutal assault of a helpless white man at one of these protests..all randomers joining in ..why ..because they could..and who the hell will really call this out...not you...not the media..God forbid.Feck off

southstar · 07-07-2020 05:39PM

Apologies the last post wasn't set properly but that's because I'm a no nothing dumb boomer

Snickers Man · 07-07-2020 05:58PM

joeguevara wrote: »

Dogs name changed in remake

Did they actually get round to doing a remake?

And what is the dog's name in it? Answer as a spoiler if you like

Overheal · 07-07-2020 06:30PM

southstar wrote: »

Apologies the last post wasn't set properly but that's because I'm a no nothing dumb boomer

“Feck off”

BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

Comments