Galway light rail, my idea for a route

blueshark2 · 03-07-2020 10:14AM

I always think it's funny how it's generally considered outlandish for Galway to have a light rail system. Yet for 39 years we actually had one! The Galway-Salthill tramway. That's when Galway City had a population of around 13,000.

One reason for the attitude is obviously how much the cost of transport infrastructure construction has spiralled. I'd love to see a comparison of the cost of a historic system when adjusted for inflation. Often a project like this is estimated, but they spiral up to the latest high tech tram solution when perhaps it can be done cheaper with some "minimal viable" option.

Another reason is I think Galway has a small town attitude. That contributes hugely to the charm of the city, but I think it also leads to us thinking big projects are only for "the big cities". I find myself guilty of that attitude.

Maybe we should dream big again, maybe we can have the shiny things (with an electric motor this time rather than horses)!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galway_and_Salthill_Tramway

http://www.tramwaybadgesandbuttons.com/page148/page149/styled-245/page668.html

Whereisgalway · 03-07-2020 10:15AM

Galway is a large town not a city

timmyntc · 03-07-2020 10:15AM

From a practical point of view - where is there the land to fit a light rail track?
Space is already at a premium, unless we dig up the few bus lanes and stick in tram lines instead?

donvito99 · 03-07-2020 10:22AM

timmyntc wrote: »

From a practical point of view - where is there the land to fit a light rail track?
Space is already at a premium, unless we dig up the few bus lanes and stick in tram lines instead?

If you can CPO for a bypass you can CPO/restrict car access for public transport.

Trams and buses could share a lane, although buses and trams have mixed poorly in Dublin as of late with both systems suffering as a consequence.

JCX BXC · 03-07-2020 11:00AM

blueshark2 wrote: »

I always think it's funny how it's generally considered outlandish for Galway to have a light rail system. Yet for 39 years we actually had one! The Galway-Salthill tramway. That's when Galway City had a population of around 13,000.

Clifden had a railway, West Clare had a railway, are those lines also viable, simply because they had one before?

Bizzare thing to say. Historical demand doesn't mean current demand.

fergiesfolly · 03-07-2020 12:46PM

If I can ask the stupid question... when we say tram, do we mean 3,4 or 5 carriages?
Would a tram in the city work with only one or two? Surely that would work in the city centre?

biko · 03-07-2020 01:00PM

I don't know what OP had in mind but if we consider that double decker buses have approx 80 seats then you'll need 2 modules to cover that.
But they should probably add on more

CowboyTed · 03-07-2020 09:56PM

The main thing I was getting at before... Galway people don't use public transport and correspondingly Galway has a poor public transport system...

But look at the Westside where there is a bus lane, it is pretty unused and doesn't carry any where near what the car lane does during peak hours... The lane while having potential to carry a lot of people faster than a car, the reality is that it is slower and less efficient use of space.

The same can be said for the cycle lane from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit...

So before we go down the route of an expensive light rail system, shouldn't we know even for a few weeks that Galway people would use public transport?

averagejoesgym · 03-07-2020 10:12PM

I think trialling ideas like those mentioned bendy buses, temporary additional bus lanes and trial uninterrupted cycle lane Knocknacarra to Ballybrit would be a great idea.

With regards to light rail I was thinking a good step forward would be to identify a route across the city connecting residential and working areas. Designate it as a potential future light rail line and take the light rail line into account in future planning decisions.

Any green field site that the potential light rail track runs on could be now converted into an extra wide cycle lane. If the light rail never came to fruition, it would be no harm to have extra cycle lanes.

averagejoesgym · 03-07-2020 10:21PM

timmyntc wrote: »

From a practical point of view - where is there the land to fit a light rail track?
Space is already at a premium, unless we dig up the few bus lanes and stick in tram lines instead?

I was thinking along the lines of making the roads affected by having track on them into one way roads.

Making lough atalia and college road one way temporarily before didn't seem to work out too badly.

Although the difficult I see with running a light rail on roads would be the overhead line would affect trucks or any tall vehicles turning at juntions.

CowboyTed · 04-07-2020 02:59AM

averagejoesgym wrote: »

I think trialling ideas like those mentioned bendy buses, temporary additional bus lanes and trial uninterrupted cycle lane Knocknacarra to Ballybrit would be a great idea.

With regards to light rail I was thinking a good step forward would be to identify a route across the city connecting residential and working areas. Designate it as a potential future light rail line and take the light rail line into account in future planning decisions.

Any green field site that the potential light rail track runs on could be now converted into an extra wide cycle lane. If the light rail never came to fruition, it would be no harm to have extra cycle lanes.

he way I see trailing is say start in Easter holidays (2 weeks) and if successful push for another 4 weeks and then review...

If it works great... If not it was either only 2/4 weeks mistake... No problem, learn and get back to fixing it...

Everything I see is slow and unchangeable... No trial and error... Error is important, Error is learning... It also builds trust...

I personally would love to trail a HOV solution... I don't know if it would work but I know to get it a 4 week trail is a lot simpler...

ceatharloch · 14-07-2020 02:11PM

Two different comments on the light-rail-route, if we were to have one line:

1) Go to GOOGLE maps for Galway City and suburbs, and put an X wherever there is a large shopping center. So, from the west, we have (Galway Retail Park (Knocknacarra)) - (Westside) - (Eyre Square Shopping Center) - (Galway Shopping Center (Terryland) - (Wellpark) - (Briarhill Shopping Center). Then, try to join the dots. You'll find you can more-or-less draw a straight line through the Xs (except for towards the "center" of Galway, where you'd have to chose either Eyre Square Shopping Center or Galway Shopping Center). What about this for a TRAM route?
2) Methinks way too much emphasis is placed on tram that would bring people from residential areas to suburban "work areas". Consider (a) Such routes are used for MAX 3 hours in morning and 3 in evening Mon-Fri (30 hours per week), (b) After current pandemic, many more people may work from home, (c) what about trams linking shopping areas, city center, cinemas/libraries/churches/sports-complexes, etc.? A sizable fraction of Galway City works near the City Center - a tram going near there serves those workers, and serves everyone else who goes to the city center any time to shop/leisure/restaurants/pubs, and of course, what is never mentioned, get to Train/Coach stations to get to Dublin City and Dublin Airport.

CowboyTed · 14-07-2020 03:01PM

ceatharloch wrote: »

Two different comments on the light-rail-route, if we were to have one line:

1) Go to GOOGLE maps for Galway City and suburbs, and put an X wherever there is a large shopping center. So, from the west, we have (Galway Retail Park (Knocknacarra)) - (Westside) - (Eyre Square Shopping Center) - (Galway Shopping Center (Terryland) - (Wellpark) - (Briarhill Shopping Center). Then, try to join the dots. You'll find you can more-or-less draw a straight line through the Xs (except for towards the "center" of Galway, where you'd have to chose either Eyre Square Shopping Center or Galway Shopping Center). What about this for a TRAM route?
2) Methinks way too much emphasis is placed on tram that would bring people from residential areas to suburban "work areas". Consider (a) Such routes are used for MAX 3 hours in morning and 3 in evening Mon-Fri (30 hours per week), (b) After current pandemic, many more people may work from home, (c) what about trams linking shopping areas, city center, cinemas/libraries/churches/sports-complexes, etc.? A sizable fraction of Galway City works near the City Center - a tram going near there serves those workers, and serves everyone else who goes to the city center any time to shop/leisure/restaurants/pubs, and of course, what is never mentioned, get to Train/Coach stations to get to Dublin City and Dublin Airport.

Rent a bunch of bendy buses, take the streets for 4 weeks (first week can be schools off, allow to bed in) and trial it... Give over bus lanes where tram lanes would exist... Run a timetable and see how it goes...

Whereisgalway · 15-07-2020 08:26PM

CowboyTed wrote: »

Rent a bunch of bendy buses, take the streets for 4 weeks (first week can be schools off, allow to bed in) and trial it... Give over bus lanes where tram lanes would exist... Run a timetable and see how it goes...

The attitude of see how it goes is a recipe for disaster, I’d sooner whatever is in charge doesn’t allow themselves to be influenced by lobby groups, actually does Research and sticks & stand by to the decisions they make

donvito99 · 15-07-2020 08:40PM

Whereisgalway wrote: »

The attitude of see how it goes is a recipe for disaster, I’d sooner whatever is in charge doesn’t allow themselves to be influenced by lobby groups, actually does Research and sticks & stand by to the decisions they make

Replace "see how it goes" with 'trial period'. Disaster averted. Some buses and some repurposed streets will cost next to nothing, the only expenditure would be in political capital, some signs and some enforcement.

ceatharloch · 19-07-2020 08:08AM

Following my last post - I'm not necessarily saying this is the right criterion to use, but see picture of how colinear all the shopping precincts in Galway City are.......

Whereisgalway · 19-07-2020 11:03AM

ceatharloch wrote: »

Following my last post - I'm not necessarily saying this is the right criterion to use, but see picture of how colinear all the shopping precincts in Galway City are.......

Where ya getting the funding from?

04-10-2021 01:14PM

This is on the long finger again

From the NDP published today

while the feasibility of light rail in Galway will be considered again as part of the review of the Galway Transport Strategy (which will commence in 2022).

So the next GTS review, starting in 2022, finishing in 2023, possibly 2024, will say a feasibility study should be done.

The feasibility study will be put forward in 2025, maybe get funding by 2027, get started by 2028 and completed by 2030.

Then it will take 1-2 years more while its being reviewed.

Then it will go through the 13 year process to actually get built, making it about 2045 by the time it will actually open. I'll be able to use the free travel pass by then ugh

Paddico · 30-10-2024 05:08PM

This back

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/study-gives-backing-to-gluas-light-rail-system-for-galway/a1703437821.html

zell12 · 30-10-2024 05:10PM

An estimated cost of €1.23bn-€1.34bn in 2023 prices is given, ~ €80m-€90m per km 😮 😮

ben.schlomo · 30-10-2024 05:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122779512#Comment_122779512

And it'll take 20 years minimum you'd imagine so you can multiply that many times over.

kabakuyu · 30-10-2024 05:20PM

Crazy cost but it would be a great addition,also like the proposed routes.

Now all we need is the by pass as well and then Galway can thrive again.

Geuze · 30-10-2024 09:14PM

Those costs need to be halved.

https://www.samdumitriu.com/p/infrastructure-costs-trams

Geuze · 30-10-2024 09:15PM

We need to get the advice of French and German engineers to drive costs down to sub €50m per km.

rustyfrog · 30-10-2024 09:41PM

Expensive but better value that the ring road in terms of tackling the traffic problem.

what_traffic · 31-10-2024 10:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122780651#Comment_122780651

Ya thats true - the long term value of starting a TRAM will always always beat the GCRR.

what_traffic · 31-10-2024 10:32AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122780490#Comment_122780490

Agree - we love copying our recent Colonial masters. We need to really stop copying everything they do.

I would be asking our old Viking friends the Norwegians, Swedes (and the Finns) - high cost economies with similar size populations to us as to how they get things done.

Wompa1 · 31-10-2024 02:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113930537#Comment_113930537

Bit of a conundrum though. What came first? The public transport system being unreliable or people choosing to not rely on it?

I have lived on the far sides of the city in the past with a bus stop right by my door. When you get f*cked over enough times by the bus, you don't risk it any more. A few Sundays, I waited for the first bus of the day which wasn't until late into the morning on the Sunday schedule…it didn't show up, either did the 2nd or 3rd. At the time there was no one to answer to wtf was going on so I contacted BE on a weekday and was told the driver called out. The next time i I tried to get the bus on a Sunday, the same thing happened again. Longer ago than that, I had to get a flight from Galway Airport to Manchester, needed to get a bus into town to get the bus out and the buses were all full by the time they got to me so I had to scramble to get a taxi. Of course, we all have the usual Galway story of being at a bus stop in the pissing rain and the bus never shows up too.

I don't think people in Galway love driving more than counterparts in other cities. Have friends who left Galway and went to Dublin or London and used public transport while there. The history and reputation for our bus service is that it is piss poor and unreliable.

xckjoo · 31-10-2024 03:21PM

Reports says that the cost is so high as it includes the ancillary work that would also be needed. e.g. not just the roads with the tram lines but other ones that need modifying to handle the change in traffic it would cause

zell12 · 31-10-2024 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122783116#Comment_122783116

any front gardens going to be confiscated?

Galway light rail, my idea for a route

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