The scandal and thrill of watching same-sex kissing on TV

yerwanthere123 · 25-06-2020 1:53pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

All adults risk verbal abuse for holding hands in public, not just people who are gay.

Yes, I regularly hear about straight couples who're abused/heckled for holding hands in public. It's very common :rolleyes: Stop posting nonsense.

LillySV · 25-06-2020 2:00pm

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Absolutely hilarious point there... such clever wordplay. Well done! (claps very slowly)

I wasn't talking about porn. Nor do I have any issues with straight couples wearing the faces off each other. I strongly encourage it. Although, it's damn hard though an anti-COVID face mask at the moment.

However, what I was saying is that it's just about normal interactions between people in terms of displays of affection, be they straight or gay.

It's not that long ago that Hollywood and US TV wouldn't even allow the depiction of a married couple sharing a bed as it was a bit 'foreign minded' and something they might do in French film. It's why you'll always see the married couples with two bed and a locker in between. Nobody in reality actually lived like that (well other than rather strange people) but Hollywood / TV censors in the US were that concerned about the suggestion that a couple might ... have sex.

People raised eyebrows when Kirk and Uhura kissed on US TV back in 1968, because nobody had seen an interracial kiss on TV before. That's seems racist and utterly ludicrous now, but that's how things were in 1968.

We moved on, got over it and and I think the same applies to gay kisses on screen or on tv, when we've had a world where you really never saw two guys or two women kissing in media or fictional portrayals, then it's something that's going to raise eyebrows when it really is about as boring as it gets.

So, honestly, if you've an issue with it - and you know you do : go watch some LGBT themed drama, plenty of it on Netflix and stop living in the 1970s.

So you know I’ve an issue? . and I must watch a tv program because you learn everything from tv and what your told online is it? And I should do the same? And if someone doesn’t want to get involved in virtual signaling , then clearly they are living in the 70s? You are very tolerant, aren’t you?

Necro · 25-06-2020 2:04pm

Mod:

Flickerfusion and LilySV, take it down a notch please. The thread is becoming a bickerfest between you both. Any issues take it to PM

gmisk · 25-06-2020 2:09pm

Queer as folk....I knew then! Ahhh I am definitely into this and not girls!

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2020 2:09pm

Flickerfusion wrote: »

All adults do not risk verbal abuse in public and to be quite honest. You have no idea what you're talking about.

They do, for any number of reasons, however according to your logic if people who have issues with being verbally abused in public would just watch more of it on tv, they would become desensitised to it, like it’s their responsibility and not the responsibility of the people giving off verbal abuse to sort themselves out.

I’ve been subjected to verbal abuse and harassment many times in public, been beaten up a couple of times too. Throughout my life I’ve known plenty of people with similar stories. The only reason you imagine I couldn’t know what I’m talking about is because you’re only thinking of yourself.

Bobblehats · 25-06-2020 2:10pm

I kissed a fish. (and I liked it)

Ultima Thule · 25-06-2020 2:11pm

No problems with it in particular but I generally dislike sex scenes in movies. I think they are just stocking fillers. Its an easy fix as many of us are interested in seeing it, and IMO it shows that the producers are short on other stories to keep interest.

The great movies dont need to resort to sex scenes. There are exceptions to where its important for the story, ie, shawshank redemption (NOOONOTTHESISTERS!!)

c.p.w.g.w · 25-06-2020 2:14pm

A little off topic, but in season 1 of friends when they have the lesbian wedding. The network had set up extra phone lines to deal with complaints...they got next to no extra complaints...that was in 1994

irishguitarlad · 25-06-2020 2:14pm

Ultima Thule wrote: »

No problems with it in particular but I generally dislike sex scenes in movies. I think they are just stocking fillers. Its an easy fix as many of us are interested in seeing it, and IMO it shows that the producers are short on other stories to keep interest.

The great movies dont need to resort to sex scenes. There are exceptions to where its important for the story, ie, shawshank redemption (NOOONOTTHESISTERS!!)

I agree sex scenes in movies and series are generally just filler bállocks or pandering to teenage boys or people with that mentality. They could be using that time to explain a thing in the plot.

Ger Roe · 25-06-2020 2:24pm

Flickerfusion wrote: »

People raised eyebrows when Kirk and Uhura kissed on US TV back in 1968, because nobody had seen an interracial kiss on TV before. That's seems racist and utterly ludicrous now, but that's how things were in 1968.

That kiss wasn't as positive as it is now made out to be on retrospective reflection. In the storyline of the episode, Kirk and Uhura were forced to kiss by an alien power exerting mind control. The characters actually strongly resisted the encounter and fought against the mind manipulation that was being exerted on them.

It is now seen as a great cultural breakthrough, but it would have been a far more positive development if it had been consensual and based on mutual attraction.

Even from a plotline aspect, it portrayed a commanding officer being forced to kiss a subordinate crew member - it was a controversial scene on several levels that is now looked back on in a more favourable light than it might otherwise deserve.

If it was actually an attempt to break down race prejudice, it was a fairly botched attempt.

Church on Tuesday · 25-06-2020 3:24pm

Yeah I remember the Fair City kiss, I was about 10 and even back then I failed to see what the big deal was, my mother was shocked by it.

Didn't have "the channels" so I missed out on the Brookside kiss. Sadly.

It's bizarre to me how that could be such a big deal as recently as 1996, it's good to see how far we have come.

JupiterKid · 25-06-2020 6:11pm

Great to see that this thread has stayed on AH and wasnt quickly moved by the mods to the LGBT forum. I wasn't intending for it to be. I'm an old timer veteran now here on boards and I think most of the mods know I'm not a troll or a sh*t- stirrer.

Yep, society has moved on hugely since those first portrayals of same sex affection. I've been out myself since I was 21/22, after my J1 visa summer in San Francisco where there was no going back for me. I have never looked back.

I am of the generation- born in the mid 1970s where Ireland was undergoing a social and economic revolution in the 1990s - that directly benefited from these changes and it was an amazing time to be young - and especially young and gay - and finding the courage to be myself.

These days, no-one really appears to get upset and displays of same-sex affection on TV or in film, except for a sizeable rump of homophobes who can always change the channel if it offends them that much. As it should be.

But back in the late 1980s and early 90s, at the time of AIDS and the right-wing political backlash at the LGBT community who had emerged from the shadows in the 1970s after Stonewall, it was a very different matter.

And so many of my straight mates were very very happy to see the girls snog on Brookside!

eviltwin · 25-06-2020 6:12pm

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

I was about 11, this was in 1996. I remember my mother nearly falling off the couch when it happened, I thought it was gas.

The only thing shocking about that is the acting

Mad_maxx · 25-06-2020 6:15pm

Flickerfusion wrote: »

Absolutely hilarious point there... such clever wordplay. Well done! (claps very slowly)

I wasn't talking about porn. Nor do I have any issues with straight couples wearing the faces off each other. I strongly encourage it. Although, it's damn hard though an anti-COVID face mask at the moment.

However, what I was saying is that it's just about normal interactions between people in terms of displays of affection, be they straight or gay.

It's not that long ago that Hollywood and US TV wouldn't even allow the depiction of a married couple sharing a bed as it was a bit 'foreign minded' and something they might do in French film. It's why you'll always see the married couples with two bed and a locker in between. Nobody in reality actually lived like that (well other than rather strange people) but Hollywood / TV censors in the US were that concerned about the suggestion that a couple might ... have sex.

People raised eyebrows when Kirk and Uhura kissed on US TV back in 1968, because nobody had seen an interracial kiss on TV before. That's seems racist and utterly ludicrous now, but that's how things were in 1968.

We moved on, got over it and and I think the same applies to gay kisses on screen or on tv, when we've had a world where you really never saw two guys or two women kissing in media or fictional portrayals, then it's something that's going to raise eyebrows when it really is about as boring as it gets.

So, honestly, if you've an issue with it - and you know you do : go watch some LGBT themed drama, plenty of it on Netflix and stop living in the 1970s.

Thanks roe mcdermot

25-06-2020 7:45pm

The "straight people can get abuse sometimes too" approach just rings a little bit like the thread about "AllLivesMatter" we have over on the other forum. It is like you can clearly see the point the people pushing that thought have - but it is so tiny and misses so many points that it gets everything from disdain - to outright hostility. Though these days what doesn't get outright hostility from _some_ on social media sites?

It is not quite 5 years ago that we had a story about a couple of gay lads who were asked to leave a restaurant for what was reported as being the "crime" of holding hands and looking into each others eyes. And a minority then too argued either in favour of them being asked to leave - or in favour of the expectation that the management _should_ be expected to do something about it. But it's a minority. A sad angry lonely minority is the impression I get when I think back on those moaning about it at the time.

I am in a slightly "different" relationship myself too. The level of random hostility my relationship draws now is so massively smaller than it was 10 years ago that it is impossible to compare. While I do not rush to engage in PDAs when out in public - I certainly do not rush to withhold them either any more on the rare occasions it feels like something I want to do. There is a certain background level of fear and trepidation I recall that simply is not there any more. Like a mild case of tinnitus that dissolved so slowly over time that you surprise yourself when you notice it is gone.

I kinda like that I look back and struggle to think of any examples of such on screen kissing as the thread is about. I must have seen them but it simply did not register with me at the time. And I kinda like that. Just like I personally wish we lived in an entirely color blind society when it comes to race - I think I was sexuality blind most of my life. Two people kissing was two people kissing and I simply did not even see - or think to see - the genders who were doing it. So when I saw it it didn't register with me at all. Perhaps I missed out on the "thrill of the scandal" but that is a small price to pay I think.

Ten of Swords · 25-06-2020 7:52pm

No kissing in this but I always remember this ad in particular, kind of warmed my heart when I first saw it.

First time I can recall seeing something like this on Irish TV, plenty of instances on UK or US TV at the time but nothing (that I recall) that was homegrown. Can't remember when this ad was first shown, there's Youtube clips from 2012 but it certainly feels older.

One eyed Jack · 26-06-2020 3:13am

JupiterKid wrote: »

But back in the late 1980s and early 90s, at the time of AIDS and the right-wing political backlash at the LGBT community who had emerged from the shadows in the 1970s after Stonewall, it was a very different matter.

20 years before Stonewall, in the 50s, was an even more important victory for gay rights in the States when the State Equalisation Board in California tried to have the Black Cat bar license suspended, and the owner challenged them in the State Supreme Court -

Stoumen v. Reilly , 37 Cal.2d 713

Good documentary film on Netflix I’m watching right now which gives a good idea of the history and politics of the time, right through to the present day, about one of the most famous landmarks in Los Angeles -

’Circus of Books’ Review: A Community Takes Pride in Its Porn Store

One eyed Jack · 26-06-2020 5:05am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is not quite 5 years ago that we had a story about a couple of gay lads who were asked to leave a restaurant for what was reported as being the "crime" of holding hands and looking into each others eyes. And a minority then too argued either in favour of them being asked to leave - or in favour of the expectation that the management _should_ be expected to do something about it. But it's a minority. A sad angry lonely minority is the impression I get when I think back on those moaning about it at the time.

They were asked to leave, by management -

”When we said we had every right to show each other affection, the manager said that it was unfortunate that other customers were uncomfortable, and suggested that we leave. He told us we wouldn’t be charged for our meal.”

The writer of the letter revealed that he was “humiliated” by the actions of the manager and as he left the restaurant a diner at another table called him disgusting.

“As we were leaving the restaurant, feeling humiliated, a woman at one of the tables, probably the one who had complained about us, said the word “disgusting”.

Gay couple celebrating anniversary “humiliated” after being asked to leave Dublin restaurant

There was no reporting that they were engaged in any sort of criminal behaviour, simply that they were making other customers uncomfortable with their PDA. It was the couple in question who formed the conclusion that customers must have complained because they were a gay couple. It didn’t occur to them that most people don’t appreciate other people’s PDA while they’re just as entitled to enjoy their meal as the couple in question. A sad and angry lonely minority is the impression I get of anyone who thinks public PDA are ok, regardless of the sexual orientation or number of participants.

Nothing to do with homophobia, just basic manners.

Gruffalux · 26-06-2020 6:12am

Sex scenes in series have in some cases become gratuitous and therefore utterly boring. I got through a lot of Power but fcuk me they were forever shagging and eventually I got bored watching it. Felt sorry for the actors, to have such nice acting roles, and then to have to be so porny all the time.
Re OP I remember the Saturday night a good few years ago, when me and my husband watched my movie picks, The Birdcage and then Brokeback Mountain, one after another, both of which I loved. At the end he sighed and said, well fcuk that sh1t, thats the last movie night I am having with you. He has kept his word.

People like what they like.

26-06-2020 6:51am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There was no reporting that they were engaged in any sort of criminal behaviour

No one suggested they were

That is why I put the "" around "crime". They were asked to leave by the management - which I already pointed out - after some customers - probably only one customer - complained about it -which I also already pointed out.

They were doing nothing wrong at all but it seems a vocal minority of idiots - in this case as you pointed out probably just one woman - still get bothered by this kind of stuff even today.

I suspect "most people" do not actually care. You even said it yourself in an earlier post on the thread when you wrote "people aren’t all that interested in whether they’re holding hands or they’re kissing or anything else. Same as it is for most people"

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A sad and angry lonely minority is the impression I get of anyone who thinks public PDA are ok, regardless of the sexual orientation or number of participants. Nothing to do with homophobia, just basic manners.

Nothing to do with manners at all. You are projecting what _you_ personally want to be "manners" onto the subject as if it is some kind of universal. I suspect most people do not care at all and in fact for the most part probably do not even _notice_ let alone notice enough to care in the first place. PDA goes on all the the time and seemingly no one notices - but when it is PDA that is somehow out of the ordinary I suspect it makes it more noticeable.

Just saying it is no ok does not make it not ok. You certainly have never actually explained a single thing wrong with it. It's _hands_. Touching _hands_. It is hardly some world ending event. It's something all humans of all ages and all genders do.

One eyed Jack · 26-06-2020 7:38am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just saying it is no ok does not make it not ok. You certainly have never actually explained a single thing wrong with it. It's _hands_. Touching _hands_. It is hardly some world ending event. It's something all humans of all ages and all genders do.

All these years later and you still don’t appear to have grasped the concept that nobody has a right to display affection for each other in public, and people do have a right to make a complaint if they find something offensive. Nobody has ever argued that it’s a world ending event, but some people when they’re asked to desist from PDA act like their world has indeed come crashing down around them :pac:

It’s really simple - most people know how to behave appropriately in public. Then there are the small minority who are pretty much clueless about how to behave appropriately in public, and they have told that their behaviour is inappropriate, and that’s all that happened that couple in the restaurant.

26-06-2020 7:41am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

All these years later and you still don’t appear to have grasped the concept that nobody has a right to display affection for each other in public, and people do have a right to make a complaint if they find something offensive.

They do not have the _right_ to do so? What does that even mean? I have every right to put my hand where I want so long as it does not break any laws. You are literally inventing rights out of your imagination. Two people sitting in a restaurant or walking down the road have every right to display PDA if they so wish. There is nothing stopping them at all. And the thread is about the Pride we should all feel that we are slowly moving towards a society where one particular group is less and less being singled out for abuse and even violence for doing something everyone else does and almost never gets noticed.

No one I know of has suggest no one has the right to complain either. Complain all you like. All I have ever said is you have not yet given a reason why such a complaint should be taken seriously - let alone acted on.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s really simple - most people know how to behave appropriately in public.

Exactly. And you and a tiny minority simply inventing that hand holding is not "appropriate" does not magically make it not appropriate. You can say it "after all these years" over and over again. But "after all these years" simply saying it over and over has not magically changed reality out here in the real world.

One or two people being bothered by something does _not_ make it inappropriate. Other than repeating over and over that _you_ do not find it appropriate personally - have you any actual arguments to give that it is so? So far not it seems.

Gruffalux · 26-06-2020 7:53am

Having been at some rough wild parties back in the day where absolutely hammered people were riding each other beside paths, on the lawn, in an actual booth in a club occupied by others, and on top of a (low) wall in one case, I am all in favour of gay people holding hands and snogging in public at will. It's a blessed relief for my eyes to see a bit of old fasioned love!

26-06-2020 7:57am

Gruffalox wrote: »

It's a blessed relief for my eyes to see a bit of old fasioned love!

With a news media full of riots - racism - war - protests - and more. It is also a blessed relief to go sit somewhere in public and see the occasional couple clearly in love. Love is the most beautiful thing - even more so in the current climate.

That people are bothered by it as if its "inappropriate" or somehow "bad manners" - for no other reason than they declare it to be so - says more about them than the people holding hands walking down the road.

Conor Bourke · 26-06-2020 8:08am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They do, for any number of reasons, however according to your logic if people who have issues with being verbally abused in public would just watch more of it on tv, they would become desensitised to it, like it’s their responsibility and not the responsibility of the people giving off verbal abuse to sort themselves out.

I’ve been subjected to verbal abuse and harassment many times in public, been beaten up a couple of times too. Throughout my life I’ve known plenty of people with similar stories. The only reason you imagine I couldn’t know what I’m talking about is because you’re only thinking of yourself.

Unless you were abused, harassed or beaten because of you openly expressing your sexuality, it’s not relevant to the topic of this thread so stop trying to shoehorn in irrelevant details.

Homelander · 26-06-2020 8:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

No one suggested they were That is why I put the "" around "crime". They were asked to leave by the management - which I already pointed out - after some customers - probably only one customer - complained about it -which I also already pointed out.

That article was utter vague nonsense when it was first released. A high-class Dublin restaurant asking a couple to leave because they're gay and holding hands?

100% more to it than that. In fact if I remember correctly there were details in the original article like they were jeered as they were ordered to leave.

If you believe they were asked to leave the restaurant because they were gay and minding their own business....or because a single customer complained.....I think that's incredibly naive.

26-06-2020 8:52am

Homelander wrote: »

That article was utter vague nonsense when it was first released. A high-class Dublin restaurant asking a couple to leave because they're gay and holding hands?

Almost. I think it was more " A high-class Dublin restaurant asking a couple to leave because they're gay and holding hands - and some people, possibly only one person in fact - moaned about it".

In that I would expect that had a customer not noticed and been bothered by it - the restaurant and restaurant staff might not even have noticed it at all. I know what working in such busy environments is like. You tend to be too busy to notice irrelevant minutia.

Homelander · 26-06-2020 8:54am

And I still call total BS on a Dublin restaurant asking a gay couple to leave because a single customer complained they were "holding hands".

26-06-2020 8:57am

Who knows. I can only go on what was reported. I can not invent or make up additional details to suit myself. I am not naive enough to think that the media report every story accurately or completely. But at the same time I can not respond by simply filling in blanks with facts of my own choice either.

Homelander · 26-06-2020 9:00am

But you have formed an opinion based on a vague, anonymous and entirely likely bogus article. You've used it above to highlight so called opposition to gay couples showing basic affection in public - and claimed people on this site supported it.

When in the original thread, people were a) skeptical of the story and b) talking about being against PDA in public.

The scandal and thrill of watching same-sex kissing on TV

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