Helmets - the definitive thread.. ** Mod Note - Please read Opening Post **

Kevin Irving wrote: »

How about they remove VAT from cycling helmets if they want to encourage usage? Maybe even give a tax credit toward them? Better that that claiming the 20% back on my health expenses for the year. I buy my helmets in the UK for this reason.

Zero rate VAT would make sense, I also can't see the VAT generated by helmet sales as being enough to generate enough income to be of concern to the countries books.

I'm very happy to agree that in large scale studies, the overall benefit of mandatory helmets is negated by the reduction in cyclists. ie: preventing safety in numbers, other health benefits, etc.

Thats actually not what they show, iirc, they show that % of cyclists with serious head injuries remains constant, alongside a reduction in numbers of cyclists. So overall, they would, in my opinion look to be a net negative if you count numbers on bikes and to also have no affect at all and just look at percentages.

Personally though, I've been knocked out cold while wearing a helmet and hitting the edge of a rock at at least 30kph. I'd have no trouble saying the helmet minimised my injuries as far as possible and the doctors agreed. Some will say I have no hard evidence to say that the helmet helped, and I might not, but they can try out the same accident helmetless and gather some evidence if they'd like to argue that assertion. I certainly won't be repeating it.

It might have, I don't know. Hitting your head of a rock seems unlikely in the majority of cycling accidents, where you MTBing? If it was commuting, would you have ridden differently if you hadn't a helmet. What caused you to fall? Was there a different issue which should be addressed first. I don't like anecdotes in these discussions, so I won't use my usual one. The only personal thing I can say is that I have only hurt my head cycling while wearing a helmet. This indicates to me that i shouldn't wear a helmet. But thats misleading, and there are several other factors which must be considered. How often do I wear/not wear one, how are others behaviour influenced, how is mine influenced, do I only wear it during higher risk cycling activities eg racing/MTBing or all the time. Life isn't as simple at anecdoetal or population level as just giving one piece of information. These bits of info need to be taken into account in smaller population sizes.

In another crash, the rear axle bolt hit my helmet in the temple area, and left me really dazed. Again, I'm very confident in saying that the helmet prevented a skull fracture. Take a look. Statistically extremely unlikely, but I cycle enough that it adds up over time, and I only need to be on the wrong side of that statistic once to ruin my life.

Can I ask how?

Should they be mandatory though? Absolutely not.

Should they be worn as must as practically possible? Yes, IMO. And by that I mean daily commuting on the road at a decent speed, MTBing, cold weather. Going to the local shops or over to the park on a summers day, no.

And thats pretty much my point, most people already do a dynamic risk assessment when they go out. There is no difference in the shop vs commute except time for most people, but intrinsically people realise in any situation, the longer it goes on, the more of a risk that accompanies it. They will also take into account personal experience, so location matters, time of day matters, time of year matters and so on. You have done so yourself by highlighting these points in examples. The issue I have is when people don't wear one, getting derided in public (or online) by people who have no idea of the situation or parameters and are effectively talking out their arse. Simply out there are too many factors to make simple statements.

People deriding trauma doctors who regularly see cycling injuries and saying "they're not experts" is disingenuous to be fair. They might not be looking at population level statistical analysis, but I'd still trust their opinion on injuries they've seen with and without helmets.

Their view is biased, as anyones who only sees the worst would be. There are even anecdotes here of A&E doctors saying lucky you were wearing a helmet as they sat there with a hurt ankle. Biases are hard to account for in real life and scientific literature. As someone who has taught many doctors in my younger years and again more recently, bias they cant seem to get over and statistics they struggle to understand.

tomasrojo wrote: »

Cram, regardless of the debate, I'm really sorry to hear about your injuries, and also really happy to hear you're ok.

Cheers, my ego is damaged but I am mentally dressing it up as being better than I am by completely accepting responsibility and playing the moral high ground that way which has eased the brusing somewhat.

magicbastarder wrote: »

how are you today? any stiffness/soreness?

Shoulder is sore. I presume I tensed up a bit so despite my elbow hitting the window, my shoulder took the shock if that makes sense. No mobility issues compared to the other side, just soreness like a muscle ache or bruise.

SPDUB wrote: »

Ray D'arcy talking about Eamon Ryan not wearing a bike helmet at the start of his show monday 22nd June

Was Ray the one who had people wearing helmets on his advert for Today FM on Dublin Bikes

EDIT: Yes he was

MojoMaker wrote: »

Swift recovery Cram.

No damage to the bike at all?

Shifter has moved slightly but I was moving so slowly that I would have been annoyed if anything more serious happened.

fat bloke wrote: »

Get well soon.

One huge advantage with not wearing a helmet is you don't now have the cost of replacing it after the accident!

Your the second person to say that to me today

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ouch, hope you're OK.

Any lessons learnt for the rest of us from the incident?

Lessons are practice what I preach. 100% my fault. I came onto the road, the car was in front of me and started to accelerate and I followed suit. They braked and in my video I braked as well but just not enough. So maintain your brakes. I wasn't going fast, nor was I danger to anyone but myself still, I would lambast others for that error in judgement, so fair is fair, I must lambast myself.

Got a call today and it is all sorted, very nice to deal with. i offered to get a present or pay for his car to be valeted as a present to at least show remorse for the collision. He was just happy no one was hurt and that was that.