Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Spook_ie wrote: »

I think 3 is a great idea. ( as a requirement to carry and produce when requested )

that's fine as most people carry a driving license etc. or if challenged, can be given 10 days to produce it at their local Garda station. But that info cant be caught via CCTV cameras at traffic lights.

Hurrache wrote: »

Either a failure of actual numbers and percentages supplied to you on a plate, or intentional trolling ignorance. The numbers of those breaking red lights were given.

Do I have to quote the numbers you supplied again? I mean, they're right there. They leave out the totals.

1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red
24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)
So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights

Yes, 24 times 54 is 1,296. Well done.

Where are you getting the "There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed" from?

Where are you getting the "only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights" from? We can't know that without knowing the total number of cyclists observed breaking the lights.

Presumably you have the figures? Third time to ask, now. Give us the source.

Hurrache wrote: »

The gardai.


I can't take the credit, those numbers are from the gardai.




The gardai.



The gardai. Of course you can know that it's 12% without knowing the total number of cyclists, the gardai worked that out.



I told you at the outset, the gardai.


Look, you wouldn't believe there were actually surveys with facts and figures that would contradict your tunnel vision. You were given them, and predictably you won't take them at face value.

Take it up with the gardai at this point.

:rolleyes: You haven't even given us the name of this survey or report or whatever it is. If you have figures as precise as "54 cyclists" or "1,296 motorists" you presumably have not memorised them and are looking at them somewhere in a report or news story or online publication.

Stop being so obtuse, and provide the link to this report, or, at the very least, the name of the study.

Why are the anti-cycling people even bothering with this thread? I can't believe you're annoyed that much by bicycles that you'd post on this for weeks on end. They are good for society and harmless.

ewc78 wrote: »

Eh, the thread was originally about cyclists on footpaths. It was then hijacked by some cycling cult members who are unable to take any sort of criticism and constantly try to justify cyclists breaking the law.
The thread would have died out weeks ago if it wasn't for you lot and your whataboutery..

I think it's fair to say that if someone starts a thread about cycling on a public forum that people who regularly cycle offer their own opinion. Thankfully we had "road tax", hi vis, red light breaking along the way. It's so rare these get discussed on boards when cycling comes up. Cult is a new one for me - previous reference to warriors and cycling brigade, so glad to see another catch all generalisation out there.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've asked you before to detail what information you think is omitted from that article on the NTA camera findings. Can you clarify please?

Pretty sure I spelt out exactly what was missing at the time.

Chiparus wrote: »

Dont forget bike nazis.

The Nazis nicked them all back in their day!

ewc78 wrote: »

Eh, the thread was originally about cyclists on footpaths. It was then hijacked by some cycling cult members who are unable to take any sort of criticism and constantly try to justify cyclists breaking the law.
The thread would have died out weeks ago if it wasn't for you lot and your whataboutery..

Though funnily enough, that's still not even in the same ballpark as those who constantly try to justify drivers breaking speed limits, which is one of the top three causes of road deaths.

SeanW wrote: »

Oh dear! One old couple lets their car go down some rocks! How horrible!
[sarcasm]STOP PRESSES! Yes, this is so reflective of Irish drivers as a whole and proves your point that all Irish drivers are horrible, all Irish cars need hi-vis and, and totally counters all the international evidence that road deaths in Ireland are relatively rare[/sarcasm] :rolleyes:

Sorry, but how do you 'let your car' do anything. Your car doesn't have a life of its own. It doesn't do things on its own. Drivers are supposed to be in control.

If the driver is unable to control the vehicle, they shouldn't be in the driving seat.

We really need regular retesting of drivers.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Sorry, but how do you 'let your car' do anything. Your car doesn't have a life of its own. It doesn't do things on its own. Drivers are supposed to be in control.

If the driver is unable to control the vehicle, they shouldn't be in the driving seat.

We really need regular retesting of drivers.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret - people sometimes make mistakes and old people sometimes do silly things - because they're old people. Over 70s are subject to restrictions on the renewal of their license. Further, in this case, no deaths or injuries occurred (like 98% of cyclists jumping red lights or your likely false claim of 98% of motorists breaking "urban" speed limits). This incident provides precisely zero evidence that Irish drivers are unique in needing regular driving tests. Anyone who doesn't understand that has no business commenting about transport policy.

magicbastarder wrote: »

just coming back to this, and i'm going to dig out my tired old cliche of the shark infested pool again.

This analogy works best if you assume that only Irish roads/streets can be likened to a shark infested pool, and that streets in other countries can be likened to swimming pools with no sharks. A more accurate analogy would perhaps be that in all countries the "swimming pools" have at least some sharks, and then what follows is an interaction between the number of sharks and the swimmers' perspective on the shark risk.

In other countries, the "swimming pools" have WAY more sharks, as I've proven.

in ireland, 2% of secondary school students cycle to school, in the netherlands, it's approx 75%.
approx 70% of irish students are driven to school (42% car, 28% bus), and there are more female secondary school students driving to school than there are cycling.

I maintain this has less to do with anything to do with transport and more related to a MUCH more disjointed school system. In the US and other countries, each municipality has a guaranteed school placement in the municipal school system. Bus routes etc, can all be planned around that.

In Ireland, it's more a question of getting some school that might or might not have a place somewhere in the area. Or going to school somewhere further away. In such cases, bicycles or even buses may simply not be of much use. Ergo, more children driven to school at least in part for reasons that having to do with the transport system.

so you can say the roads are safe, but it's a very facile way of looking at it, if they're safe because vulnerable road users have been driven (pun intended) away.

This may be true to some extent but both the low numbers of deaths and the rapid improvements over the years both suggest that at least some decisions are being made correctly.

So you see it twice in one week, but as a daily pedestrian in Dublin I see motorists jumping just-turned-red lights many times a day, when I'm in the city. I wish they wouldn't but it isn't a big danger. By contrast, I see motorists jumping "stale" reds almost never - and because of the danger posed by mostly cyclists, I have to observe carefully the actions of all other road users when I'm crossing a central Dublin street.