Madeleine McCann

Queasy Tadpole · 16-06-2020 12:48PM

We're not police. We're not German. I agree it's very strange the way they have gone about this but who knows what they are trying.

They have something. He videoed other crimes. I believe they have photo/video of Madeline being killed/dead. They can report everything that has been said in the media, they can report to the parents but they cannot charge the man since he had a mask on.

16-06-2020 12:49PM

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

We're not police. We're not German. I agree it's very strange the way they have gone about this but who knows what they are trying.

They have something. He videoed other crimes. I believe they have photo/video of Madeline being killed/dead. They can report everything that has been said in the media, they can report to the parents but they cannot charge the man since he had a mask on.

Tell us more. Sounds like a scoop

take everything · 16-06-2020 12:52PM

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Well I would disagree, there is an obvious and evidential case of a psychotic need to kill, look at the abundance of serial killers. They felt a "need" to kill. This exists.

We have not YET invented anything to curb mental illness yet we do have medications to reduce or remove the majority of the negative reactions to these mental issues.

I'd again disagree, human behavior is a result of brain chemistry. Some of us have broken, misplaced or destroyed chemistry which leads to deviant behavior.

As time goes on and our knowledge of technology and physiology grows as will our knowledge of the human brain. We will isolate these issues and remove them.

Stop confusing psychotic with psychopathic.

Psychosis is break with reality (delusions/hallucinations) and synonymous with what the average person would regard as "madness". And not necessarily associated with harm to others. And can actually be amenable to treatment.

Unlike psychopathy which is a personality disorder (enduring traits since teens/early age and less amenable to treatment). Some would say not amenable to treatment at all. They do not have a break with reality but just have no empathy, can be charming, can be impulsive and engage in reckless behaviour without regard for others. Think Ted Bundy.

When there is attraction to kids, you get complete scum like this guy.
And yeah this amounts to "evil" as the lay person might see it. Not in any religious sense.

Just try to get it straight.

Mules · 16-06-2020 01:03PM

Anyway, whatever is or isn't wrong with him, if he's guilty, I hope they get the evidence to keep him locked up for good. He's too dangerous to be walking the streets. It must be horrible for the parents because they have likely read what he's already been convicted of.

Babooshka · 16-06-2020 01:34PM

dark crystal wrote: »

McCanns deny they have received letter from German authorities stating Madeleine is dead:

https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-parents-reports-german-authorities-sent-us-letter-about-her-death-false-12007820

Yet German prosecutor Mr. Wolters, who is leading the investigation, told British reporters just yesterday that he had. I don't know what the hell is going on....

This really is a mess.

Banana Republic. · 16-06-2020 01:41PM

Babooshka wrote: »

This really is a mess.

Why can’t one police force just do the job right instead of all this crap. Seems like none of them have a notion at all.

Babooshka · 16-06-2020 01:49PM

Banana Republic. wrote: »

Why can’t one police force just do the job right instead of all this crap. Seems like none of them have a notion at all.

I was so hopeful of them finally getting some closure, sounds like they have just come up against more press mongering and it never happened, how can press do this? Surely they're hindering an investigation by printing this stuff if it isn't true.

Day Lewin · 16-06-2020 01:50PM

Well well well. Another turn of the screw!

The McCann parents say they have not received any such letter.

Wotthehell....something is going down. But Now I can't figure out what!

Babooshka · 16-06-2020 02:07PM

Not sure if this has already been mentioned but it just sounds like an almighty mess. They practically helped CB destroy evidence, or warned him to, at least. Beginning to sound worse than the PJ.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/13/madeleine-mccann-suspect-told-he-was-on-german-police-radar-in-2013

Strumms · 16-06-2020 02:13PM

Mules wrote: »

I'd look up what mental illness actually is. It's not a catch all term for people who so terrible things. To me, saying a criminal act is due to mental illness without any proof or even evidence is a get out clause. It also demonises people who are genuinely mentally ill. I do have an undergraduate psychology degree if this adds any weight to my opinion.

Well said. My girlfriend who is also a psychologist says the same thing 100%.

This 2020 absolute bullshït brain dead attitude of anybody committing any terrible act causing hurt, pain or whatever to a fellow human being... “OHHH ITS CAUSE OF MENTAL ILLNESS”...awwwhhh

retro:electro · 16-06-2020 02:14PM

Would there by any chance that the letter has been sent, they just haven’t received it yet?
It’s all getting confuddley

limnam · 16-06-2020 02:14PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

*Breaking News - Sky 12:40pm Tuesday/16th June.

Madeline's parents deny that a letter has been received from German authorities claiming to have "concrete" evidence of their daughters death.

The previous reports were false.
Talk about a rollercoaster . . . .

Could be covid.

There's been a lot of delays.

limnam · 16-06-2020 02:18PM

dark crystal wrote: »

The point is that they have proof that Madeleine is dead and have informed the parents of this horrible fact.
.

This remains to be seen.

Babooshka · 16-06-2020 02:24PM

Strumms wrote: »

Well said. My girlfriend who is also a psychologist says the same thing 100%.

This 2020 absolute bullshït brain dead attitude of anybody committing any terrible act causing hurt, pain or whatever to a fellow human being... “OHHH ITS CAUSE OF MENTAL ILLNESS”...awwwhhh

To be very honest I can see both sides of the argument. I know that psychosis and being a psychopath are two very different things, but you wouldn't call a person who is into torturing and killing and raping mentally healthy by any stretch. So there are very grey areas, personality disorders, neuroses, psychosis, all different illnesses. I wouldn't call Adolf Hitler normal. Because some people call him evil doesn't mean that he was simply a monster in a story book, end of. He had several personality disorders, I'd imagine it would take teams of psychiatrists hours, or maybe years of work to unravel.

I think Tadpole meant (not putting words in their mouth, but anyway) that calling someone simply bad or evil is only a moral judgment call, and doesn't mean anything, except morally, to people. But a deranged lunatic is what I would call someone taking kids and doing what it is they do that leaves the children dead to their parents. An evil deranged lunatic, yes, but still a deranged lunatic. I however don't think it can be cured, and I don't think they're worth trying to cure, I think they should be put down but that's only my view.

Edit:But also yes, I think a lot of crimes and misdemeanors these days the solicitor yells "mentall illness" and they're too lenient then, for sure.

dark crystal · 16-06-2020 02:33PM

Babooshka wrote: »

I was so hopeful of them finally getting some closure, sounds like they have just come up against more press mongering and it never happened, how can press do this? Surely they're hindering an investigation by printing this stuff if it isn't true.

Sounds to me like the miscommunication is coming from the German prosecutor, Hans Christian Wolters, not the press. He told the PA news agency only yesterday that a letter had been sent. They're only reporting what they've been told.

Now whether this is bad translation on his part, or the letter has been sent but not yet received, I don't know, but in my opinion, his first obligation should have been to talk to Madeleine's parents before releasing such a statement. I would have assumed he had done so before talking to the press...

I'm hoping he will clarify his comments soon.

Wombatman · 16-06-2020 02:37PM

Hans Christian Wolters is a local prosecutor of the town the size of Galway. Not sure how he stumbled into this, I think Brueckner lived there, but he has no idea of the media frenzy around this case. He has been doing interviews with loads of newspapers, contradicting himself in some, and his arrogance is being manipulated by skilled journalists who only care column inches.

I doubt we will be hearing much more from him as this rumbles on.

buttercups88 · 16-06-2020 04:26PM

take everything wrote: »

Can anyone make sense of "concrete evidence" and "99.9% sure" that she is dead and "no forensic evidence".

My Venn diagram for these two pieces of information coexisting seems to be broken.

It seems to me almost certain with everything I've.heatd.about this case and the other cases this guy is responsible. And I would question why anyone would doubt this. And it's unbelievable he only got short sentences with all the stuff he was arrested for across Europe.

But I can't seem to make sense of those two contradictory messages above.

Anyway.
Poor child.

Concrete evidence would be photo or video of her being killed/her body

Forensic evidence would be found either at crime scene or on the body or items used

If they have imagery then they need to try figure out where it was taken so they can search there for forensic evidence.

take everything · 16-06-2020 05:05PM

buttercups88 wrote: »

Concrete evidence would be photo or video of her being killed/her body

Forensic evidence would be found either at crime scene or on the body or items used

If they have imagery then they need to try figure out where it was taken so they can search there for forensic evidence.

Ok.
I was mistaken in thinking photo/video
evidence would be forensic.

Queasy Tadpole · 16-06-2020 05:50PM

take everything wrote: »

Stop confusing psychotic with psychopathic.

Psychosis is break with reality (delusions/hallucinations) and synonymous with what the average person would regard as "madness". And not necessarily associated with harm to others. And can actually be amenable to treatment.

Unlike psychopathy which is a personality disorder (enduring traits since teens/early age and less amenable to treatment). Some would say not amenable to treatment at all. They do not have a break with reality but just have no empathy, can be charming, can be impulsive and engage in reckless behaviour without regard for others. Think Ted Bundy.

When there is attraction to kids, you get complete scum like this guy.
And yeah this amounts to "evil" as the lay person might see it. Not in any religious sense.

Just try to get it straight.

Yes sorry I used the terms incorrectly. My point still stands, they are broken humans who can be fixed.

You say he has an attraction to children yet this is not proven at all. Most sexual offenders target those who are the most vulnerable, this is usually children and the elderly. This man has a conviction for raping an elderly woman. There is nothing to say he has an attraction to children. I don't believe a pedophile would murder a child.

I think this guy is similar to Bundy, outwardly normal but with a several mental deficiencies that leads them to commit disgusting acts. I believe these deficiencies can be found, isolated and removed.

take everything · 16-06-2020 06:28PM

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Yes sorry I used the terms incorrectly. My point still stands, they are broken humans who can be fixed.

You say he has an attraction to children yet this is not proven at all. Most sexual offenders target those who are the most vulnerable, this is usually children and the elderly. This man has a conviction for raping an elderly woman. There is nothing to say he has an attraction to children. I don't believe a pedophile would murder a child.

I think this guy is similar to Bundy, outwardly normal but with a several mental deficiencies that leads them to commit disgusting acts. I believe these deficiencies can be found, isolated and removed.

Psychopathy can't be fixed for the most part.
I'm not sure why you think a paedophile wouldn't murder a child.
Not having a go. I just don't understand what you're saying.
And any guy who abducts a child (apart from maybe custody cases) is most likely attracted to children.

ronivek · 16-06-2020 06:46PM

I mean people are trying to interpret what "concrete evidence" means in the context of a German native making statements outside of a court.

The words outside a legal context are meaningless; he could be calling the drunk "confession" testimony concrete evidence since you can argue it is concrete (i.e. real words spoken by a real person) and evidence (an indication that something occurred).

It's also a prosecutor who is saying all this from what I can tell; not the police. I'm not too well up on the German legal system but there are plenty of countries where prosecutors are elected officials; effectively just politicians.

And on top of that we have the usual blow by blow accounting from various media outlets; most of which is completely unverifiable.

Plumbthedepths · 16-06-2020 06:47PM

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

I don't believe a pedophile would murder a child.

Have to disagree with you on your claim, here's some evidence to counter what you said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Black_(serial_killer)

ronivek · 16-06-2020 06:50PM

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

You say he has an attraction to children yet this is not proven at all. Most sexual offenders target those who are the most vulnerable, this is usually children and the elderly. This man has a conviction for raping an elderly woman. There is nothing to say he has an attraction to children. I don't believe a pedophile would murder a child.

I mean paedophilia is the sexual attraction to children. It says nothing about their capacity or desire to actually assault anyone.

Just because you're a heterosexual doesn't automatically mean you fantasise about nor engage in the sexual assault of women.

You can be a paedophile and kill a child; same way you can be heterosexual and kill a woman.

People who actively study psychology and psychiatry have a hard enough time dealing with issues of mental health and illness; let alone some randoms in some discussion thread.

dark crystal · 16-06-2020 08:12PM

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

You say he has an attraction to children yet this is not proven at all. Most sexual offenders target those who are the most vulnerable, this is usually children and the elderly. This man has a conviction for raping an elderly woman. There is nothing to say he has an attraction to children. I don't believe a pedophile would murder a child.

In 1994, when just a teenager, he was convicted in Germany of sexual abuse of a child, attempted sexual abuse of a child, and carrying out sexual acts in front of a child. Then in June 2017 he was arrested again and returned to Germany for a sentence of 15 months in prison for the sexual abuse of a child.

Also, whilst investigating another missing child case, police discovered his online chats with other paedophiles where he said disgusting things about children:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-believed-been-abused-22169188

He told of his sick fantasy of kidnapping, raping and killing a girl, and boasted he would “document” the torture of a child.

He told how he wanted to “catch something little and use it for days” and, regarding the risk of being caught, added: “Meh, if the evidence is destroyed...He also wrote: “Then I’ll record maaaany videos/clips. I’ll document in detail how she’s being tortured.”

Whether he took Madeleine or not, I think it's safe to say this scumbag is a very, very bad person and should not be anywhere near the general public.

dark crystal · 16-06-2020 08:28PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Have to disagree with you on your claim, here's some evidence to counter what you said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Black_(serial_killer)

Yep, I was nearly sick reading about him a few years back. Pure evil.

You can also add Roy Whiting, who abducted and killed Sarah Payne, Robert Oliver who killed Jason Swift, Albert Fish who abducted and killed at least three children, Anisio Ferreira de Sousa, who killed at least 19 boys between 1989-1992. De Sousa was part of a satanic ring that sexually abused, mutilated, and killed young children and Mark Dutroux, who was convicted of the kidnap, torture and sexual abuse of six females aged between 8 and 19, four of whom died. And sadly, many more.

I can't understand why anyone would deny paedophiles also kill. There are just so many cases out there, sadly. They are sick, depraved people and once caught, should never see the light of day again.

Strumms · 16-06-2020 08:29PM

dark crystal wrote: »

In 1994, when just a teenager, he was convicted in Germany of sexual abuse of a child, attempted sexual abuse of a child, and carrying out sexual acts in front of a child. Then in June 2017 he was arrested again and returned to Germany for a sentence of 15 months in prison for the sexual abuse of a child.

Also, whilst investigating another missing child case, police discovered his online chats with other paedophiles where he said disgusting things about children:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/madeleine-mccann-believed-been-abused-22169188

Whether he took Madeleine or not, I think it's safe to say this scumbag is a very, very bad person and should not be anywhere near the general public.

You’d have to wonder what absolute nonsensical mush is going through the head of a judge who sentenced an individual to 15 months having sexually abused a child. It was his second conviction. Madness.

dark crystal · 16-06-2020 08:33PM

Strumms wrote: »

You’d have to wonder what absolute nonsensical mush is going through the head of a judge who sentenced an individual to 15 months having sexually abused a child. It was his second conviction. Madness.

I genuinely can't understand it either. He was only sentenced to 7 years for the rape of the pensioner as well.

He could be out soon again - unbelievable.

ronivek · 16-06-2020 08:38PM

I’m really not sure how imprisonment and rehabilitation is meant to work when dangerous individuals have clearly not been rehabilitated and yet are repeatedly given soft sentences.

Although to be fair to individual judges they don’t always have much discretion in terms of the maximum they can sentence people to.

Sweet.Science · 16-06-2020 09:07PM

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

A reminder about the statement made by Katherina Gaspar .

Banana Republic. · 16-06-2020 09:18PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

A reminder about the statement made by Katherina Gaspar .

Even if “Dave” wasn’t talking about Madeline it’s still a word as hell convo to have with another adult sitting at tables with other couples present. Strange goings on indeed, if true these ppl weren’t your normal run of the mill pillars of society that their profession would attest for.

Madeleine McCann

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