Application of Circular 08/2019

Random551 · 30-03-2020 12:01AM #1

Just wondering If anyone else has come across this issue, Circular 08/2019 - Revised arrangements applying to starting pay, was released around May last year. A friend of mine went through it and found that it applied to them so contacted peoplepoint to be told they would be contacting everyone in due time.

Fast forward a few months, they weren't contacted so called them again and were told that the circular didn't apply to them. To cut a long story short after going back and forth to explain why it did, it was accepted that it did apply and they needed to get their local department to apply for a recalculation of pay on their behalf. This was done and then Peoplepoint came back again to claim they didn't qualify but this time they're stating a reason that isn't contained in the circular. My question is, does anyone know if they can do this?

The part of the circular I refer to is below:
8.3 The provisions in relation to starting pay on promotion will apply to officers who were
appointed between 31 July 2017 and 1 January 2018, however, the new rate will only
apply to these officers from 1 January 2018. There will be no retrospective payments
pre 1 January 2018 in relation to these officers.

Peoplepoint are now saying that this only applies to those appointed pre 01/01/2018 that were 'marking time' but the circular doesn't say that and means that someone who did well at testing and interview and placed high on a panel so were promoted at the end of 2017 is now 2 increments and over €3,000 worse off then someone who was lower down on the panel and promoted in January 2018, despite being from the same competition and on the same panel.

Any advise would be appreciated. Also mods if this is in the wrong place feel free to move it.

johnmol · 30-03-2020 05:38PM

I've no idea what marking time is so would be fairly confident we weren't doing it. Both myself and my wife were both promoted between july 2017 and december 2017 and both received our revised pay without issue last summer and there was no mention of marking time ever in our correspondence from peoplepoint.

As to them using a reason that isn't contained in the circular, i'd assume they can't do this but they are a law onto themselves and make things up as they go so anything is possible. Maybe someone else will have more knowledge about circulars and their application.

Random551 · 31-03-2020 10:12AM

Ya, I had never heard of marking time either but it didnt apply to my case because I wasn't promoted until January so I'm now 2 increments and on over €3,000 more than my friend even though they were promoted first which is crazy.

Ya from what we've gathered there seems to be quite a few that got their revised pay that weren't marking time and had no problems. It was done automatically. My friend hits all the same requirements except this new one they're adding in the background. It's very inconsistent and unfair

Nagnad · 11-05-2020 03:38PM

Hi,

I just see this post.

This applies to me too. I am the same as your friend. I was promoted in 2017 and now I am on a lower scale than colleagues promoted after me.

I am currently in the process of joining the union to pursue this as I have been told 'tough' by anyone else I have spoken to.

Has your friend pursued this at all???

Random551 · 02-06-2020 12:14PM

Hi Nagnad,

Sorry only saw your reply. They got on to DPER and were told an instruction was issued by DPER that the circular only applies to those marking time if you were promoted between July and December 2017. It seems to be a decision they've taken in the background and not one that is actually stated in the circular.

They are considering joining the union to try and fight it like you but with all that's going on and being out of the office they're looking into how to go about it and if the union would actually take it up with DPER. Have you had any luck? It's very unfair on people promoted during this time.

Jen Pigs Fly · 09-06-2020 01:11PM

That’s weird, and I’ll throw a slight spanner in the works,
I was promoted April 2018, put on marking time. I got a an email from my local HR As directed by people point that I’m not longed marking time due to the circular and will get my increment as normal after the usual year - which I did.

Maybe check with your local HR.
I was initially given an increment date of April 2022. Completely unprompted the email came in changing it to 2020.

I am in the union, and they kept putting out that marking time is gone? Maybe try forsa anyway even if you’re not a member they may help you clear it up!

Random551 · 10-06-2020 11:46PM

Hi Jen Pigs Fly,

I didn't explain that properly. As you were promoted after January 2018 the circular applies to you whether you were marking time or not so that's why your increment date was changed. Ya part of this circular was getting rid of marking time.

The circular was supposed to apply to people who were promoted between july and december 2017 as well but DPER is now saying that it only applies to those promoted between july and december 2017 who were also marking time despite the circular not mentioning anything about people needing to be marking time to qualify. Marking time isn't mentioned in the outline of the application of the circular. This means that some of those promoted at the end of 2017 are now up to 2 points of the scale behind those promoted in early 2018 which is crazy.

Ya I think unions are the only way to go at this point as my friend has contacted local hr, peoplepoint and DPER and they just don't want to know.

Nagnad · 23-03-2022 05:36PM

Hi Random551,

I joined the union re: above and was basically told 'tough'.

Did your friend pursue this?

Thanks,

JasonLyne · 01-09-2025 05:22PM

Circular EL 08/2019, issued by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (DPER), sets out how starting pay should be determined for staff moving between roles in the civil service, public service, and local authorities. Its core aim is to prevent pay reductions on promotion or transfer, ensuring allowances that have been held on a long-term basis are recognised when setting starting salary.

Purpose of Circular EL 08/2019

The main purpose of Circular EL 08/2019 is to:

Recognise long-standing allowances (12 months or more) when calculating reckonable pay.
Ensure staff are placed on the nearest point above their reckonable remuneration when promoted or appointed to a higher grade.
Provide fairness and consistency so that staff do not suffer financial loss when progressing.

This approach protects mobility within the civil and public service by removing financial barriers to promotion.

Application Across the Civil and Public Service

Although Circular EL 08/2019 was issued as a civil service circular, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has confirmed that its provisions are open for adoption across all areas of government, including the wider public service and local authorities. This ensures parity of treatment for local government employees with their civil service counterparts.

The principles of Circular EL 08/2019 align with the approach taken during the transfer of local authority staff to Uisce Éireann (formerly Irish Water). In those cases, employees’ pay structures, including allowances, were protected to ensure continuity and fairness.

This alignment reinforces that the same principle applies to interagency moves within the civil and public service: existing pay, including allowances, should be recognised so that staff maintain parity in the nature of pay.

Circular EL 08/2019 ensures:

Parity of treatment for staff across all areas of government.
Recognition of allowances in reckonable pay for interagency moves, whether by promotion, transfer, or open competition.
A consistent approach across civil service, local authorities, and public bodies, reducing inequality and maintaining fairness.

Conclusion

Circular EL 08/2019 is more than just a civil service directive — it is a policy tool endorsed by DPER for use across the civil service, public service, and local authorities. Its adoption provides staff with greater confidence that their allowances will be treated fairly and that parity of pay will be maintained when moving between organisations. By removing financial barriers to mobility, it helps create a more consistent and equitable approach to career progression across government.

AI Generated Response

Jim_Hodge · 01-09-2025 05:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123776105#Comment_123776105

The thread is over 3 years old. Why throw in an AI generated spiel?

dennyk · 01-09-2025 11:19PM

AI bots are getting into necromancy now; we're truly fecked.

Application of Circular 08/2019

Comments

Purpose of Circular EL 08/2019

Application Across the Civil and Public Service

Conclusion