Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

Retr0gamer · 08-05-2020 01:50PM

I don't believe that at all. GSK is in the process of gutting it's consumer health division and bought Novartis to double down on vaccine manufacture before I left them. There's big money in vaccines and if covid related vaccines become like the common flu it will be a big money spinner for the manufacturers.

I mean H1N1 is a corona virus and a vaccine was developed within a typical vaccine timeline. And there would be less money to be made from a H1N1 vaccine.

CelticRambler · 08-05-2020 02:00PM

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I mean H1N1 is a corona virus and a vaccine was developed within a typical vaccine timeline. And there would be less money to be made from a H1N1 vaccine.

Getting a bit off topic now, but H1N1 is an influenzavirus. Influenzaviruses "follow the rules" of immunity; coronaviruses don't.

There are no, zero, absolutely none, effective coronavirus vaccines on the market, neither for animals or for humans. The biggest problem being that those that are available (primarily cats, dogs and cows) have a tendency to cause as many cases of the disease as they cure.

Your comment regarding GSK/Novartis is very pertinent - whereas previously there were dozens of vaccine manufacturers amongst the major players, those parts are progressively being sold off and consolidated. In private medicine, vaccines are typically used as loss leaders to encourage clinics and practitioners to adopt the company's portfolio of other medicines (especially, these days, age-related treatments).

Retr0gamer · 08-05-2020 02:10PM

Except H1N1/SARS is a coronavirus and closely related to Covid19 and there is a vaccine for that. So that's nonsense.

ancapailldorcha · 08-05-2020 02:18PM

Mod: Take the Coronavirus vaccine discussion to the Coronavirus forum please.

Enzokk · 12-05-2020 07:21AM

The negotiations between Barnier and Frost started again yesterday for another session.

https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1259867513145430016?s=20

I guess there will be a press conference again from Barnier towards the end of the week and another roundup from Tony Connelly to look forward to at the weekend on what happened during the discussions.

GM228 · 13-05-2020 12:09PM

Seems very appropriate, not just to COVID-19, but also all things Brexit related:-

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1260542232425369601?s=19

listermint · 13-05-2020 09:59PM

Boris finally caught out I see.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1260662359833620482

"FULL STORY Boris Johnson’s government concedes Brexit will mean checks on goods going into Northern Ireland. Belfast, Warrenppint, Larne, He previously boasted that deal, which he agreed, meant no checks and businesses could put paperwork “in the bin” "

Joe_ Public · 13-05-2020 10:18PM

listermint wrote: »

Boris finally caught out I see.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1260662359833620482

"FULL STORY Boris Johnson’s government concedes Brexit will mean checks on goods going into Northern Ireland. Belfast, Warrenppint, Larne, He previously boasted that deal, which he agreed, meant no checks and businesses could put paperwork “in the bin” "

Guessing the eu will be getting its fine spanking new office in Belfast after all.

Headshot · 13-05-2020 10:34PM

listermint wrote: »

Boris finally caught out I see.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1260662359833620482

"FULL STORY Boris Johnson’s government concedes Brexit will mean checks on goods going into Northern Ireland. Belfast, Warrenppint, Larne, He previously boasted that deal, which he agreed, meant no checks and businesses could put paperwork “in the bin” "

What I would give to see Fosters face when she hears/reads this.

BonnieSituation · 13-05-2020 10:47PM

Headshot wrote: »

What I would give to see Fosters face when she hears/reads this.

She should already know this.

What you want to see is Sammy Wilson or Jeffery doing their best "no, nay, never" on morning Ireland tomorrow morning.

Charles Babbage · 14-05-2020 12:14PM

Headshot wrote: »

What I would give to see Fosters face when she hears/reads this.

She already knows this, but she wants to make sure that Boris is seen to having reneged on his word rather than the DUP agreeing to it.

Thargor · 14-05-2020 03:19PM

Thats the one where he looked down at the carpet and shuffled his feet and mumbled yes of course like a child when those NI businessmen cornered him and asked him to promise there would be no checks.

Enzokk · 14-05-2020 07:01PM

Seems like the UK Home Office has finally seen sense and started (I think) the process of enshrining the GFA provisions on citizenship in UK law, instead of fighting it.

Northern Ireland-born British and Irish win EU citizenship rights

All British and Irish citizens born in Northern Ireland will be be treated as EU citizens for immigration purposes, the government has announced after a landmark court case involving a Derry woman over the residency rights of her US-born husband.

The move is a major victory for Emma de Souza ending a three-year battle to be recognised by the UK home office as Irish, a right enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement (GFA).

I think this is however only until the end of the transition period, but like Emma de Souza tweeted if the UK Government confirmed this legal status, even if it is only temporary, it will have a hard time arguing that this shouldn't be the law permanently afterwards. Either way I believe this is great news for her case and the fight she has had to fight for her rights as it is agreed under the GFA.

Edit: As I thought I read, her statement confirms that this is only temporary and they are still fighting the Home Office to have the rights enshrined in law as it is intended in the GFA.

https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1260918174121410565?s=20

black forest · 14-05-2020 07:57PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Seems like the UK Home Office has finally seen sense and started (I think) the process of enshrining the GFA provisions on citizenship in UK law, instead of fighting it.

Northern Ireland-born British and Irish win EU citizenship rights

I think this is however only until the end of the transition period, but like Emma de Souza tweeted if the UK Government confirmed this legal status, even if it is only temporary, it will have a hard time arguing that this shouldn't be the law permanently afterwards. Either way I believe this is great news for her case and the fight she has had to fight for her rights as it is agreed under the GFA.

Edit: As I thought I read, her statement confirms that this is only temporary and they are still fighting the Home Office to have the rights enshrined in law as it is intended in the GFA.

https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1260918174121410565?s=20

This could be seen in connection to the EUs measures taken today. GFA and the WA implementation are paramount to the EU. The gloves seem to come off...

https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1260878611319570437?s=21

After all this haggling with a possible FTA or not and the implementation of the WA especially in NI the EU diplomats seem to prepare for a rough ride. The last sound bites suggest that they officially see the UK leaving without or a minimal deal and no transition. Of course unofficially they have seen that beforehand but would never admit that. Interesting to see the UK reaction to that.

They now have four months to reply before the EU takes the whole thing a step further. Still within the transition period. The pressure mounts up...

VinLieger · 15-05-2020 07:18AM

listermint wrote: »

Boris finally caught out I see.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1260662359833620482

"FULL STORY Boris Johnson’s government concedes Brexit will mean checks on goods going into Northern Ireland. Belfast, Warrenppint, Larne, He previously boasted that deal, which he agreed, meant no checks and businesses could put paperwork “in the bin” "

So it took how long for the inevitable and only logical solution to be agreed?

Peregrinus · 15-05-2020 07:35AM

VinLieger wrote: »

So it took how long for the inevitable and only logical solution to be agreed?

It was agreed last year. Since then Johnson has misrepresented the effects of the agreement for domestic consumption, which obviously the rest of the world takes note of, and knocks another couple of points off their regard for the UK and its good faith and dependabilty. But so far as I know he has never repudiated it directly to the EU.

Seth Brundle · 15-05-2020 08:51AM

black forest wrote: »

This could be seen in connection to the EUs measures taken today. GFA and the WA implementation are paramount to the EU. The gloves seem to come off...

https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1260878611319570437?s=21

After all this haggling with a possible FTA or not and the implementation of the WA especially in NI the EU diplomats seem to prepare for a rough ride. The last sound bites suggest that they officially see the UK leaving without or a minimal deal and no transition. Of course unofficially they have seen that beforehand but would never admit that. Interesting to see the UK reaction to that.

They now have four months to reply before the EU takes the whole thing a step further. Still within the transition period. The pressure mounts up...

The UK looks to be throwing some mud back towards the EU...

Brexit: 'serious risk' EU will fail to protect UK citizens, says Gove
Letter to European commission says British residents living in bloc have raised concerns

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/15/brexit-serious-risk-eu-uk-citizens-michael-gove

Joe_ Public · 15-05-2020 10:40AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The UK looks to be throwing some mud back towards the EU...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/15/brexit-serious-risk-eu-uk-citizens-michael-gove

I seem to remember how, in a previous age, successive british politicians saying the issue of uk or eu nationals rights would be one of the first things sorted and nobody would ever have to worry about being used as pawns amid political haggling. I also seem to recall Boris Johnson, not long after his ascension, criticising his predecessor for not addressing it even before brexit negotiations began. Yet here they are anyway. Very predictably so.

Seth Brundle · 15-05-2020 11:43AM

The Sun still keeping the embers going...

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1261190335620886529

ArmaniJeanss · 15-05-2020 11:47AM

It's touching to see such government concern for UK citizens based in the EU.
Although perhaps allowing them to have voted in the referendum in the first place might make it seem more genuine.

Seth Brundle · 15-05-2020 12:46PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The Sun still keeping the embers going...

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1261190335620886529

hmmm just seen this - apparently she doesn't practice what she preaches...

https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1261225597780537350

declanflynn · 15-05-2020 01:31PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

hmmm just seen this - apparently she doesn't practice what she preaches...

https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1261225597780537350

Its mad what's going on in the uk, will these type of people be found out in the end or does the truth not matter any more

fash · 15-05-2020 05:15PM

declanflynn wrote: »

Its mad what's going on in the uk, will these type of people be found out in the end or does the truth not matter any more

More in-depth dig into the hypocrisy in this...

A thread NickðŸ‡¬ðŸ‡§ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡º (@nicktolhurst) Tweeted: This may sound strange but I’d like you to read this article in The Sun (you don’t have to click on their site).
It’s both a classic - &, if you dig a little deeper, far more revealing than you might at first think..

A thread. tweet

fash · 15-05-2020 05:18PM

declanflynn wrote: »

Its mad what's going on in the uk, will these type of people be found out in the end or does the truth not matter any more

More in-depth dig into the hypocrisy in this...

A thread NickðŸ‡¬ðŸ‡§ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡º (@nicktolhurst) Tweeted: This may sound strange but I’d like you to read this article in The Sun (you don’t have to click on their site).
It’s both a classic - &, if you dig a little deeper, far more revealing than you might at first think..

A thread. tweet

CrabRevolution · 15-05-2020 05:23PM

declanflynn wrote: »

Its mad what's going on in the uk, will these type of people be found out in the end or does the truth not matter any more

The truth stopped mattering long ago. Where Brexit clashes with facts, it's the facts that have to yield. If I may quote myself:

crabrevolution wrote: »

There's a great Halloween episode of the Simpsons where Bart is practically omnipotent and can bend reality to make anything he wants happen. Obviously everyone is in fear of Bart and seeks to please him. After a school test, his teacher explains to the class that the correct answers are whatever Bart wrote on his test: so the USA is now called "Bonerland" and was founded by "Some Guy" etc.

It's pretty much the same with brexit; where brexit conflicts with facts, it's the facts that have to yield.

So when a prominent brexiter like Francois states something that's patently wrong; tough. Luxembourg is now part of Germany and Jean Claude Junker can justifiably be called a Nazi.

RobMc59 · 15-05-2020 06:02PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It's touching to see such government concern for UK citizens based in the EU.
Although perhaps allowing them to have voted in the referendum in the first place might make it seem more genuine.

That`s not strictly true,they were allowed to vote unless they had lived abroad for more than fifteen years according to this link.
https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/

Podge_irl · 15-05-2020 06:28PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

[/B]

That`s not strictly true,they were allowed to vote unless they had lived abroad for more than fifteen years according to this link.
https://fullfact.org/europe/who-can-vote-eu-referendum/

UK citizens entire franchise is for 15 years after they emigrate and they allow postal voting, which is considerably more than Ireland provides.
It was resident EU citizens who were disenfranchised in the referendum.

Enzokk · 15-05-2020 06:57PM

Story about the negotiations for the past week. There are still differences, but I suspect there will be until the end whenever that is.

Minimal progress in EU-UK trade negotiations

The EU and the UK's chief negotiators have both cast doubt on a free trade agreement being concluded by the end of this year, following the latest round of negotiations.

In a statement, the UK's chief negotiator David Frost said very little progress has been made during a week of video conference talks between officials on both sides.

Mr Frost accused the EU of adopting an "ideological" approach to the negotiations, suggesting getting a deal by the end of the year was now at risk.

Mr Frost said: "I regret...that we made very little progress towards agreement on the most significant outstanding issues between us."

Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, said there were still wide gaps on the so-called level playing field issue and fisheries.

He told a news conference: "The firm position taken by EU member states is... that without a clear effective level playing field, a balanced fishing agreement, there will not be any possible agreement on our economic and trading partnership."

I think this is the first time where both sides are confirming there are wide differences between them. I always thought the UK was more optimistic in their assessment but if they are also talking about the wide gap, then I fear the worst will happen. Sir Ivan Rogers warned this may happen, where both sides dig in and talk around each other. They were able to get a deal with the WA, but the FTA is so much more complex and there is less time than the WA. We are surely headed for trouble here, right?

eire4 · 15-05-2020 07:35PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Story about the negotiations for the past week. There are still differences, but I suspect there will be until the end whenever that is.

Minimal progress in EU-UK trade negotiations

I think this is the first time where both sides are confirming there are wide differences between them. I always thought the UK was more optimistic in their assessment but if they are also talking about the wide gap, then I fear the worst will happen. Sir Ivan Rogers warned this may happen, where both sides dig in and talk around each other. They were able to get a deal with the WA, but the FTA is so much more complex and there is less time than the WA. We are surely headed for trouble here, right?

It is hard to see how a trade agreement gets done in full before December 31. The equal playing field is something the EU is never going to walk away from so either they get on board with it or there is no free trade deal.

Sam Russell · 15-05-2020 07:52PM

eire4 wrote: »

It is hard to see how a trade agreement gets done in full before December 31. The equal playing field is something the EU is never going to walk away from so either they get on board with it or there is no free trade deal.

I think it will be BRINO or No Deal. There is not time for a comprehensive deal, even with a two year extension.

I think the De Souza case movement by the UK HO, together with the EU issuing proceedings re the Good Friday Agreement, and EU Citizens rights, and the UK Gov acceptance of Customs posts at NI ports all would suggest the BRINO outcome, but anything can happen.

Whatever happened to Mogg?

Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

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