WiFi between 2 houses 250m with trees in way

18-02-2020 07:52PM

KOR101 wrote: »

I should add that the person I connect to has their router in the corner of a room well way from the window. Surprising but true.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Antenna-Booster-Laptop-Caravans-Motorhomes-White/dp/B00BBU7BNM

would be certainly worth trying.

you could send it back to amazon for only the cost of return postage if it didn't work and only costs £40 to begin with.

but does seem like it needs a laptop (to connect to and then to create a wifi hotspot from that laptop on the laptop's built-in wifi for other things to connect to) so unless the OP has a spare one (any old one would do), may not be an option.

niallb · 18-02-2020 08:54PM

How big are the trees really?
Can you see any of the other house at all from the top of your house?
A few branches between you might block a lot less than a wall in a house.

It's only 250m, and a pair of nanostations or more powerful equivalent would have no problem with a much greater distance with a clear line of sight. They take power over Ethernet and are small, light and easily mounted.

What's your budget for this?

cojo78 · 05-05-2020 07:29PM

niallb wrote: »

How big are the trees really?
Can you see any of the other house at all from the top of your house?
A few branches between you might block a lot less than a wall in a house.

It's only 250m, and a pair of nanostations or more powerful equivalent would have no problem with a much greater distance with a clear line of sight. They take power over Ethernet and are small, light and easily mounted.

What's your budget for this?

I got up on the roof yesterday. The line of sight is completely obscured by trees and branches these days. I've found a spot where the growth may be lighter, and I could try to clear some branches...but there's a lot. Not dense, just a lot.

I've looked at a kit including Ubiquit Nano Loco 2s, but I have no experience with these, and I'm unsure if be able to clear the view sufficiently. TV Tech Ireland is selling a 'preconfigured' kit for €165 on Adverts.

From what I can gather, I connect one nano to the router in House A, and the second to another router in House B, and it works. Not sure if switches are required at either end. If they are this pushes up the price.

KeRbDoG · 05-05-2020 08:15PM

To the OP - I have both two houses connected via single-mode fiber optics and another house by a point to point wireless.

The point to point link I have isn't that long (200m-ish) and it goes through trees at an angle, I can't go above them - and while during the summer the speed slightly drops, it still just works. Not the fastest but it works and quite stable but it doesn't get a massive amount of use. I have Ubiquiti NanoBeam AC units. The UBNT NanoStation Loco M2 units you mention are a good bet, their radios are 2.4Ghz which should pass through trees better than only 5Ghz units.

The fiber link can be done on the cheap, if you just want to put down a small trench you can use hydro pipe. Pre-terminated obviously handy if you don't have access to a splicer(man). Media converter both ends, for a 1G stable/fast link. Easy when you know how etc.

The antenna solution is worth trying first, worst case you can sell them on adverts/eBay/here if they don't work out.

From what I can gather, I connect one nano to the router in House A, and the second to another router in House B, and it works. Not sure if switches are required at either end. If they are this pushes up the price.

One end can be plugged into whatever internet/router unit you might have. The other end, depends on whats already there, if you are planning for Networked CCTV you prob already have a network plan for that location so bodge it in there

cojo78 · 06-05-2020 09:03AM

KeRbDoG wrote: »

To the OP - I have both two houses connected via single-mode fiber optics and another house by a point to point wireless.

The point to point link I have isn't that long (200m-ish) and it goes through trees at an angle, I can't go above them - and while during the summer the speed slightly drops, it still just works. Not the fastest but it works and quite stable but it doesn't get a massive amount of use. I have Ubiquiti NanoBeam AC units. The UBNT NanoStation Loco M2 units you mention are a good bet, their radios are 2.4Ghz which should pass through trees better than only 5Ghz units.

The fiber link can be done on the cheap, if you just want to put down a small trench you can use hydro pipe. Pre-terminated obviously handy if you don't have access to a splicer(man). Media converter both ends, for a 1G stable/fast link. Easy when you know how etc.

The antenna solution is worth trying first, worst case you can sell them on adverts/eBay/here if they don't work out.

One end can be plugged into whatever internet/router unit you might have. The other end, depends on whats already there, if you are planning for Networked CCTV you prob already have a network plan for that location so bodge it in there

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. The kit sold by TV Tech Ireland looks to have everything I need. I can experiment with positioning the receiver, and clearing some branches, as the trees aren't dense, but there are a lot of them. It's worth trying, and selling the gear if it fails.

I think that's what I'm going to attempt first.

Thanks for all the input. I'll report back once I've made an attempt to connect.

The Cush · 06-05-2020 09:59AM

This is the kit from their own site - https://www.freetv.ie/wireless-bridge/

YouTube setup video here - https://youtu.be/hrEEOV5oA8Y

KeRbDoG · 06-05-2020 11:39AM

The Cush wrote: »

This is the kit from their own site - https://www.freetv.ie/wireless-bridge/

YouTube setup video here - https://youtu.be/hrEEOV5oA8Y

Great video btw

Marlow · 07-05-2020 01:43AM

cojo78 wrote: »

I got up on the roof yesterday. The line of sight is completely obscured by trees and branches these days. I've found a spot where the growth may be lighter, and I could try to clear some branches...but there's a lot. Not dense, just a lot.

Anything 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz won't work reliable so.

And also, not sure if this has been mentioned: Nevermind the restriction of cat5e/cat6 of 100m, there is gear that you can do 100 Mbit/s full duplex on cat5e/cat6 over a length of 1km .. but that's neither here nor there.

Building regulations and connecting 2 premises with a copper cable, you'd be in trouble. Alone from a fire prevention perspective.

Fibre is your only friend. And the stuff is dead cheap these days.

/M

gearoid! · 07-05-2020 11:07AM

This is quite old, but decided to post my opinion just in case someone will find it viable.

You can use a point to point wireless bridge. You can search for it online. Saw one model from Tenda, it's pretty cheap. It's called MW6.

You can order one, set it up on a pole, high enough for clear line of sight. Then switch it to Access Point mode. Next, set your wifi router to client mode and connect to the MW6 AP - this is where you're main internet should be at.

Or setup 2 MW6 and pair them using wps.

You could also try FTTH to connect two nodes using Fiber.

Another feasible option would be, setup one router on each point/node and one should act as client while the other is server. Then install external/outdoor antenna to each router. You can google for Poynting WLAN-61 wifi router antenna

akasudonim · 07-05-2020 12:34PM

Marlow wrote: »

Building regulations and connecting 2 premises with a copper cable, you'd be in trouble. Alone from a fire prevention perspective.

Marlow would you mind expanding on that please? I have two buildings connected via CAT5 in a buried Hydrodare water pipe - wondering how that contravenes building regs, especially from a fire perspective?

Marlow · 07-05-2020 01:27PM

akasudonim wrote: »

Marlow would you mind expanding on that please? I have two buildings connected via CAT5 in a buried Hydrodare water pipe - wondering how that contravenes building regs, especially from a fire perspective?

A lightning strike can travel from one premise to another on the copper cable.

If it's not been installed by a certified electrician and signed off, it becomes a liability.

/M

nagel · 07-05-2020 02:50PM

Marlow wrote: »

A lightning strike can travel from one premise to another on the copper cable.

If it's not been installed by a certified electrician and signed off, it becomes a liability.

/M

I am not disputing what you say

does this not also apply to eircom lines Ok they have some protection using gas discharge to earth
, but with a direct lightning strike they offer some protection,
also there are lots lines going directly between offices /garages to houses

and is there not a similar risk with esb lines going into houses

oscarBravo · 07-05-2020 03:49PM

nagel wrote: »

I am not disputing what you say

does this not also apply to eircom lines Ok they have some protection using gas discharge to earth
, but with a direct lightning strike they offer some protection,
also there are lots lines going directly between offices /garages to houses

and is there not a similar risk with esb lines going into houses

ESB and phone lines have grounding designed into the network, and even at that, I've seen some horrific damage done to homes due to lightning strikes on phone lines.

The question is: how would you go about ensuring that you haven't created any grounding problems by running a copper wire between premises? And, if you don't know how to answer that, should you be running copper wires between premises?

Marlow · 07-05-2020 05:22PM

oscarBravo wrote: »

ESB and phone lines have grounding designed into the network, and even at that, I've seen some horrific damage done to homes due to lightning strikes on phone lines.

Also, ESB lines are all fused.

Any DIY installation is unlikely to have that sort of stuff taken into account.

/M

Gooey Looey · 07-05-2020 07:23PM

Also phones are powered from the exchange, not your house

Marlow · 07-05-2020 08:56PM

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Also phones are powered from the exchange, not your house

Generally yes.

That's exactly the culprit, where lightning hits most often: if somebody has a cordless phone, router, modem, alarm system, an answering machine or a fax machine (the last two not so often anymore) connected to the phone line and hence also plugged into the power in the house.

That's when a lightning strike on the phone line fries every other appliance in the house.

But yes, with a traditional phone that never was a problem.

/M

mikeecho · 13-05-2020 08:33PM

I'm in the process of setting up sharing my internet connection with another house that's about 100m away.
There is a few trees in the way, but I don't think it'll be an issue, as I can currently see their WiFi (Huawei dongle) from my location.

I opted for a pair of Ubiquiti nano M5 loco's
I'll be using the window mounts and both locos will be mounted internally.
I had to buy poe injector's as well. (€170 all in , Inc shipping & insurance)

They are claiming to have a 10km range, so 100m with a few trees, shouldn't be a problem.. and if they are, a chainsaw will remove a few branches.

Gooey Looey · 13-05-2020 08:41PM

mikeecho wrote: »

They are claiming to have a 10km range, so 100m with a few trees, shouldn't be a problem.. and if they are, a chainsaw will remove a few branches.

You need to Google "Fresnel zone clearance"
Clear line of sight doesn't mean just barely visible. A tree is the worst obstacle to try get a signal through, especially when full of leaves and moving, worse when wet. You'd be better with a hill in the way (*_*)

Marlow · 13-05-2020 10:50PM

mikeecho wrote: »

There is a few trees in the way, but I don't think it'll be an issue, as I can currently see their WiFi (Huawei dongle) from my location.

Seeing their dongle is not enough, nor the issue. It only becomes apparent, when you connect and try to push some bandwidth across said connection. That's when things go to pot.

The SSID (signal), you can even receive from reflections.

/M

mikeecho · 14-05-2020 11:51AM

A chainsaw will fix that problem

mikeecho · 15-05-2020 10:03PM

Quick Q

I'm awaiting the arrival of a ubiquity nano 5ac

Is there any reason I should limit the power output, given that it's being used in a very rural location, and that the other point will be ever so slightly obstructived by a tree.

The total distance between the two points will be 70m.

I'm thinking of using a ch higher than 64 but lower than 100, with 80mhz

*Noob

Gooey Looey · 15-05-2020 10:10PM

mikeecho wrote: »

Quick Q

I'm awaiting the arrival of a ubiquity nano 5ac

Is there any reason I should limit the power output, given that it's being used in a very rural location, and that the other point will be ever so slightly obstructived by a tree.

The total distance between the two points will be 70m.

I'm thinking of using a ch higher than 64 but lower than 100, with 80mhz

*Noob

Aim for -45db, if your signal is stronger reduce power

orm0nd · 15-05-2020 10:37PM

mikeecho wrote: »

Quick Q

I'm awaiting the arrival of a ubiquity nano 5ac

Is there any reason I should limit the power output, given that it's being used in a very rural location, and that the other point will be ever so slightly obstructived by a tree.

The total distance between the two points will be 70m.

I'm thinking of using a ch higher than 64 but lower than 100, with 80mhz

*Noob

why 80Mhz. ?

( i presume you mean B/W)

cojo78 · 17-05-2020 03:37PM

Hi,

The Ubiquiti Loco M2s arrived last week from Free TV, with a free upgrade to 20m of Cat5e for one of the units, and a phone call from technician to chat about aligning through trees.

I'm delighted to report that the system worked straight away, with an average of 20Mbps in the first location I tried.

I've spent a few hrs this week trying different locations for the AP and the client. The trees and leaves are definitely a problem, and reduce the signal significantly. However the way I have it set up now, the sender is pointed at the least dense section of trees. It's about 20 or 30 ft above the client station location. I found the signal is best when the receiver is lower than the roof of the house (bungalow), just 4 or 5 ft off the ground. I think the signal is coming under the main tree growth.

I haven't changed anything in the AirOS settings which FreeTV had already configured, or started to clear branches and growth in the way. I have some extra cat 5 ordered to reposition both units now I know that it works.

Before I set them up, I tested them close together, about 6 ft apart. The max I could see in terms of throughput was 50Mbps...a considerable drop from 150Mbps at the router.

Thanks for all the suggestions. This is what I was looking for. I could have attempted a direct fibre connection between the two houses, but the job would have been difficult, and involved crossing the main road.

Regarding suggestions I buy a 3g modem and SIM from 3 or Gomo, this will save me a fortune in the long run. The kit was €165. I'll get a few more yards of Cat 5, but still it'll be cheaper than a new modem and a year on Gomo. I had a 3 SIM only account before and got reasonable speeds there, but switched to Gomo recently and the coverage is weaker in that location.

I have to look at the settings and see if I can improve beyond 79dbm, which is the best I've got so far, and stable.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

cojo78 · 17-05-2020 03:37PM

Hi,

The Ubiquiti Loco M2s arrived last week from Free TV, with a free upgrade to 20m of Cat5e for one of the units, and a phone call from technician to chat about aligning through trees.

I'm delighted to report that the system worked straight away, with an average of 20Mbps in the first location I tried.

I've spent a few hrs this week trying different locations for the AP and the client. The trees and leaves are definitely a problem, and reduce the signal significantly. However the way I have it set up now, the sender is pointed at the least dense section of trees. It's about 20 or 30 ft above the client station location. I found the signal is best when the receiver is lower than the roof of the house (bungalow), just 4 or 5 ft off the ground. I think the signal is coming under the main tree growth.

I haven't changed anything in the AirOS settings which FreeTV had already configured, or started to clear branches and growth in the way. I have some extra cat 5 ordered to reposition both units now I know that it works.

Before I set them up, I tested them close together, about 6 ft apart. The max I could see in terms of throughput was 50Mbps...a considerable drop from 150Mbps at the router.

Thanks for all the suggestions. This is what I was looking for. I could have attempted a direct fibre connection between the two houses, but the job would have been difficult, and involved crossing the main road.

Regarding suggestions I buy a 3g modem and SIM from 3 or Gomo, this will save me a fortune in the long run. The kit was €165. I'll get a few more yards of Cat 5, but still it'll be cheaper than a new modem and a year on Gomo. I had a 3 SIM only account before and got reasonable speeds there, but switched to Gomo recently and the coverage is weaker in that location.

I have to look at the settings and see if I can improve beyond 79dbm, which is the best I've got so far, and stable.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

oscarBravo · 17-05-2020 04:01PM

cojo78 wrote: »

I have to look at the settings and see if I can improve beyond 79dbm, which is the best I've got so far, and stable.

Assuming that's -79dBm, that's actually a pretty poor signal. The tree cover must be quite dense.

mikeecho · 17-05-2020 10:16PM

Great to hear that it's working for you cojo78 , but -79db seems like a weak signal, maybe some tinkering might improve on that.

My Ubiquiti Loco5ac 's are due to arrive on Tuesday, (according to UPS) so hopefully I'll have them set up next weekend.

I'll be using ch 64 , as that seems to the best Freq for that particular antenna when mounted vertically.

At the recieving end I'll be connecting it to a BT Mini Whole Home Dual-Band Wi-Fi AC1200 Quad Pack.
I'd have preferred to have gotten one of the ac1600 or the ax3700 models, but £99 for a 4 disc pack was a bargain, anyway its for two elderly parents who don't use the internet that much. .. basically (rip.ie and the occasional Skype or WhatsApp call)

Fingers crossed.

I'll post some speeds here when I have it all set up.

cojo78 · 18-05-2020 08:49AM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Assuming that's -79dBm, that's actually a pretty poor signal. The tree cover must be quite dense.

Hi,

Yes, -79dbm is the best I've got so far. The AP is about 30ft higher than the client, and there's a lot of growth. The best I got at the house with both devices in front of each other was 50mbps (didn't note the dBm) and I'm getting an average of 20 now so I can accept that as a baseline.

I'm not familiar with AirOS so will have to explore what can be done to improve the signal, but this will also involve more cable, realignment and a bit of landscaping.

The Cush · 18-05-2020 09:00AM

cojo78 wrote: »

I'm not familiar with AirOS so will have to explore what can be done to improve the signal, but this will also involve more cable, realignment and a bit of landscaping.

On one of the you tube videos they said you should be looking for a min. of -60dbm.

GinSoaked · 18-05-2020 09:18AM

Have you tried with AirMax on and off on both devices? With it on you can't connect anything other than another Ubiquiti device and on good links it can speed things up. However I have found on poor connections you can get slightly better speeds and a more reliable connection with it turned off. The option is on the first tab of the web interface you need to change it on both devices. Assuming you have 2.4Ghz devices do try some different channels. Ubiquiti are a bit crap over somethings and you'll probably have to look up the channel frequencies as they list the frequencies in the web interface not the channel numbers you only need do that on the device set up as the Access Point (the other will be set up as a station - doesn't matter which one is at which end. The other tweak is to lower the Channel width from 40Mhz to 20Mhz which reduces the maximum throughput but can increase reliability in poor conditions.

WiFi between 2 houses 250m with trees in way

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