Picard 1x06 - "The Impossible Box" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

SwordsRunner · 29-02-2020 11:02am

Far too much emotional and interpersonal angst in this. It’s really draining to watch so much lens flare and murkiness. I get it, the future will be just as fractured and claustrophobic as downtown Wuhan but I prefer the heroism, decisiveness and lofty idealism of TOS, TNG, VOY and even ENT.

Edit: Oh and Raffi? There has to be a Neelix or Wesley I suppose.

Rawr · 29-02-2020 12:12pm

SwordsRunner wrote: »

Edit: Oh and Raffi? There has to be a Neelix Kitchen Rat or Wesley I suppose.

Fixed your post

tromtipp · 29-02-2020 12:42pm

It's not so much the sex I find distasteful (though I never felt it was something we needed spelling out - when we saw Kirk pulling his boots on and speeded-up lady brushing her hair we knew what had happened) but the sex-in-underwear and then getting out of bed in the same sweat and body fluids covered underwear and putting day clothes on over them is gross. I'm sure captain Kirk had a wash. The last time I was glad ST didn't come with authentic smells was the time Spot (changed sex and) got pregnant and Data informed us that there were a number of intact toms on board the Enterprise that could be responsible. Pongerama

Evade · 29-02-2020 1:57pm

liamtech wrote: »

If the Borg have assimilated the Sikarian's, a race from Voyagers Season 1, this implied that Borg Space has expanded quite dramatically - Past the Nekrit Expanse

Potential other victims include
The Voth - exceptionally advanced with Transwarp and computer equipment capable of over-riding Federation technology with ease

The Vidian's - thanks to the Phage, these guys have seriously advanced medical tech which is second to none from what we have seen (perhaps second to the Borg)

Any species in Voyagers 1st - 3rd season

Its difficult to establish this exactly but bare with me - we know from VOY 4x02 the Gift, that Borg Space is an area about 10,000 Light Years in diameter (hence Kes threw Voyager clear of it) - We can assume given that Voyager's average speed, and the ETA on returning to the Alpha quadrant that Voyager covers about 1000 light years a year, and per season - give or take -

Therefore it is entirely possible that Borg Space is now 16,000 + diameter - making - Also given the Sikarians position near the outer Delta quadrant (the outskirts at the edge of the milky way), it is possible that the collective has assimilated at a faster rate towards the center of the galaxy

So the Question is:
How long before the Reach the Alpha and Beta Quadrants

When they do they will encounter the remnants of the Romulan empire, the Klingons, Cardassia, and the Federation

This will enevitably be the biggest conflict in Trek, of Galactic proportion

Will WE SEE IT!

Just because the Borg have assimilated a race doesn't mean they've expanded their territory to that race's homeworld. The Borg seek perfection they don't assimilate everything, the Kazon for example, they might have gone to Sikaris specifically to get the trajector technology like they did chasing hints of the omega molecule. Voyager may even be responsible for the Borg learning about the Sikarians and the trajector in the first place when the Borg scanned their database in Scorpion.

pixelburp · 29-02-2020 8:09pm

Another episode I enjoyed, and even if the emotional drama was overplayed, the rest of the episode worked for me. Good pacing, decent stakes and sense of danger or tension. Yeah handsome Romulan is bloody awful but I like Soji (sp) and her mystery so I can put up with it. Next stage will no doubt be his guilty conscience making him a potential ally.

And Picards visit to the Cube made it worth the trip to begin with, a very belated reconciliation for him and his past. long overdue really. I was about to crib that it wasn't the first time on a Cube since his time as Locutus, but I was thinking of First Contact, and there the Borg were only on the Enterprise. It's a pity we're unlikely to get more scenes with him and Hugh as they felt much honest, emotionally, than the melodrama of the Space Lannisters.

Oh and 6 episodes in, yet no sign of Riker. CBS marketing should be fired immediately.

Evade · 29-02-2020 8:18pm

pixelburp wrote: »

I was about to crib that it wasn't the first time on a Cube since his time as Locutus, but I was thinking of First Contact, and there the Borg were only on the Enterprise.

I think the Borg violating his ship, and crew, the same way they violated him would be much more disturbing.

Acosta · 29-02-2020 8:22pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Another episode I enjoyed, and even if the emotional drama was overplayed, the rest of the episode worked for me. Good pacing, decent stakes and sense of danger or tension. Yeah handsome Romulan is bloody awful but I like Soji (sp) and her mystery so I can put up with it. Next stage will no doubt be his guilty conscience making him a potential ally.

And Picards visit to the Cube made it worth the trip to begin with, a very belated reconciliation for him and his past. long overdue really. I was about to crib that it wasn't the first time on a Cube since his time as Locutus, but I was thinking of First Contact, and there the Borg were only on the Enterprise. It's a pity we're unlikely to get more scenes with him and Hugh as they felt much honest, emotionally, than the melodrama of the Space Lannisters.

Oh and 6 episodes in, yet no sign of Riker. CBS marketing should be fired immediately.

Pretty much agree with all of that, especially the pacing. It was much better in this and the previous episode and both were much better for it. The Picard and Hugh alone bits, away from all the newbies, was nice. Plenty I'm not mad about, but it's not too bad.

AMKC · 29-02-2020 9:42pm

Just watched it now. That was a good episode. I liked the flashbacks too and thought Patrick Stewart acted good there.
I like Soji as was getting worried near the end there that Picard might not get to her in time but thankfully she got out and picard and Hugh got her before the Romulans did.

Be interesting to see were it goes next week.

This episode and the last one have been the best two episodes so far.

Hope it keeps up like that.

AMKC · 29-02-2020 10:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I honestly can't decide if I enjoyed that episode or not.

Parts of it felt like it dragged.

There was a lot in it, but a lot of needless stuff as well.

A synth doing meditation. How does that work?

How could Soji not be even a little bit suspicious of Nerak? All the questions, then the revelation about the calls to her mother?

Between Allison Pill and the captain, Soji and Nerak and the sexual chemistry between Nerak and his Sister. There is far too much sex in this show.

What is it too much sex for you and your not able to handle it all?

Rawr wrote: »

I have always sort of assumed that Borg Space has been encroaching on the explored parts of the Beta Quadrant for a while now and has possibly been even touching on the outer parts of Federation Space out there ever since the times of First Contact.

The only reason I'm thinking this is due to Picard's rant in First Contact.
"They invade out space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back!"
I get that maybe the writers threw this in to create a bit of dramatic edge to Picard's hatred for the Borg, but I kind of read this to mean that Starfleet was in regular contact with The Borg and that Federation gains in the Beta Quadrant have been slowly eaten away by Borg expansion. On screen, we only only ever get to see the Borg's attempts to take out Sector 001.

As for stuff in the episode itself. I wonder if the Borg Queen had a similar escape method built into the Best of Both Worlds cube (since she was there). I had always assumed that they just "Backup Queens" that she upload herself into if she lost a body. I didn't think she'd need to physically escape.

I don't think she had anything like that in the Best of Both Worlds Cube. She would have just used a Sphere or one of the Diamond ships and maybe go transwarp as the Cube was exploding.

01-03-2020 10:47am

pixelburp wrote: »

Another episode I enjoyed, and even if the emotional drama was overplayed, the rest of the episode worked for me. Good pacing, decent stakes and sense of danger or tension. Yeah handsome Romulan is bloody awful but I like Soji (sp) and her mystery so I can put up with it. Next stage will no doubt be his guilty conscience making him a potential ally.

And Picards visit to the Cube made it worth the trip to begin with, a very belated reconciliation for him and his past. long overdue really. I was about to crib that it wasn't the first time on a Cube since his time as Locutus, but I was thinking of First Contact, and there the Borg were only on the Enterprise. It's a pity we're unlikely to get more scenes with him and Hugh as they felt much honest, emotionally, than the melodrama of the Space Lannisters.

Oh and 6 episodes in, yet no sign of Riker. CBS marketing should be fired immediately.

Very good analysis.

Next weeks preview showed Riker, but he's been in practically every preview from day one. Who knows?

This should really have been episode three, not six.

It was ten minutes longer than most others. A bit of cutting here and there, episodes one and two could have been the initial encounter with doji? Cant remember her name.

Picard: raffi i need a ship and small crew, i already know Starfleet wont give me anything.
Raffi: i know a guy. But im coming along.
Picard: ok. But i want to stop off at a planet where i know a nun who can lend me a bodyguard.
Raffi: ok JL.
Picard: ive asked you repeatedly not to call me that. This mission involves synths. Do you know any experts in that field?
Raffi: yes ill bring her.

Episode one could have been epic. Theres been a lot of pussyfooting around.

Interesting thought though: 7 of 9's dislike, even revulsion of synthehol, could it be she repulses anything synthetic?

Stark · 01-03-2020 10:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting thought though: 7 of 9's dislike, even revulsion of synthehol, could it be she repulses anything synthetic?

She didn't "dislike" it. Her body couldn't metabolise it so she got drunk very quickly on it.

mewso · 01-03-2020 2:54pm

It's handy that Soji kept so many of her school drawings and teddy bears so she could carbon date them.

Also if the Sikarians have been assimilated I don't see how it's possible they haven't all been since once you have their tech you can stroll to every world they live on and do the nasty.

Finally if the Borg had this tech how does using it go anywhere other than a Borg populated location?

5uspect · 01-03-2020 5:26pm

It was a better episode but it’s still a poor show. Picard applauding Raffi after her cringy call was awful.

So much potential with the Borg seemingly abandoned now that they’ve moved on from this week’s nostalgia cameo.

The glacial pace and disregard for using any of the material beyond a few pointless scenes is beyond infuriating. An entire earnest episode to go get pointy eared Sheldon who is then used for comic relief in the following episode and then flung away this episode.

I would rather watch a documentary about Patrick Steward travelling around meeting up with the old cast than this mess.

PhiloCypher · 01-03-2020 5:46pm

Hugh and Picard hug felt off to me. The greeting was more what I would have expected between Geordie and Hugh, not Hugh and the guy who sent him back to the collective as some sort of passive weapon. Or am I forgetting interactions they had in late seasons?

Full_Circle_81 · 01-03-2020 6:58pm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Hugh and Picard hug felt off to me. The greeting was more what I would have expected between Geordie and Hugh, not Hugh and the guy who sent him back to the collective as some sort of passive weapon. Or am I forgetting interactions they had in late seasons?

My memory is a bit foggy, but I think the first time he interacted with the crew, when he was sent back it wasn't with malicious intent. But when he popped up again later, their actions with Hugh were seen in a very different light (As highlighted by Hugh himself). To be honest, I can't remember how things were left between him and Picard by the end of that second episode...

Full_Circle_81 · 01-03-2020 7:03pm

mewso wrote: »

It's handy that Soji kept so many of her school drawings and teddy bears so she could carbon date them.

I thought that that was particularly hilarious. Were those drawings always on the wall? Might have been a little more convincing if she had maybe one physical photo and then also checked her necklace (or even herself, if it can carbon date people?).

I think someone commented that people wouldn't have physical photos in the future (since we are moving away from them already now!), but I do seem to remember physical photos in previous Trek shows/movies

pixelburp · 01-03-2020 7:09pm

I think the pictures made sense in the context of Soji being 3 years old; think Blade Runner. The androids there had false memories implanted to bridge the gap of their equally short lifespan, with photos playing an integral part of their emotional tether to reality. Seems like the same was happening here: the glut of photos were a forced attempt to give Soji a grounding of a false past, presumably to stop her spiralling. She was compelled to hoard the photos.

AMKC · 01-03-2020 9:00pm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Hugh and Picard hug felt off to me. The greeting was more what I would have expected between Geordie and Hugh, not Hugh and the guy who sent him back to the collective as some sort of passive weapon. Or am I forgetting interactions they had in late seasons?

They had planned to send him back as a passive weapon alright but decided in the end not to after Geordie and co had gave him a name and he became to become an individual again. They decided sending him back to the Borg as an individual might do more harm instead make make the Borg fall apart but it only ending up affecting one Borg Cube and we all know what happened there.
The only other time we see Hugh in TNG in in Descent part 2. So I don't think Hugh held are real malice against any of the TNG crew as they basically saved him.
I would like to know how Hugh got from there to where he is now and when as well.

coffee_cake · 01-03-2020 9:06pm

I cant stand raffi now she's so petulant
Do we reckon that's your man's real name?
Does that mean the sister knows it now too? He prob didnt mind saying it bc of what happened next but why the sister.
And why didn't he keep working on her? She obviously hadn't been activated yet. Imagine if it was just a once off storm and not constant ones and they're fecked now

Why did elnor have to stay behind. He didnt know the tech might be traced. Silly

Good overall though. Buy pixel's explanation of hoarding photos

01-03-2020 9:35pm

mewso wrote: »

It's handy that Soji kept so many of her school drawings and teddy bears so she could carbon date them.

Its a lot of stuff to cart with you, for a temporary assignment to a Romulan controlled Borg cube.

AMKC · 01-03-2020 9:40pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I cant stand raffi now she's so petulant
Do we reckon that's your man's real name?
Does that mean the sister knows it now too? He prob didnt mind saying it bc of what happened next but why the sister.
And why didn't he keep working on her? She obviously hadn't been activated yet. Imagine if it was just a once off storm and not constant ones and they're fecked now

Why did elnor have to stay behind. He didnt know the tech might be traced. Silly

Good overall though. Buy pixel's explanation of hoarding photos

Do we reckon that's your man's real name?
Does that mean the sister knows it now too? He prob didnt mind saying it bc of what happened next but why the sister.

Yes I would say that is his real name. I would say he only told Soji because he thought she would be dead soon. He did not keep working on her because they had got what they wanted. He was not trying to activate her.

As for Elnor well he wanted to stay behind so its his choice. I don;t think it would be a big lose if we never see him again do.

Stark · 01-03-2020 9:59pm

I'd say the 3 Romulan names thing was BS like the "Borg rituals". He's a Romulan spy, treat everything he says as a lie.

I do think it was a bit odd that Hugh knew he was spying on her but didn't give her the heads up.

coffee_cake · 01-03-2020 10:40pm

She was the one who said it about the names though wasnt she

Yeah i know he wasnt trying to activate her i mean it was just very short sighted. Oh there's a place with 2 moons, great, we definitely will never have any follow up questions in the future! No reason not to keep her around for a while

Stark · 01-03-2020 10:42pm

bluewolf wrote: »

She was the one who said it about the names though wasnt she

Ah must have misheard that bit. Even so, no reason for him to divulge his actual name to her, was most likely a made up name.

The Megaphone · 02-03-2020 12:50am

IvySlayer wrote: »

Weird I watched the Voyager episode they were referencing too only yesterday!

So I re-watched this too and something doesn't add up - in their techno-babble talk, the spatial trajector would only work on or in close proximity to their planet - it wasn't portable!

_Kaiser_ · 02-03-2020 1:01am

As others have said, Raffi is just an awful character and her one real scene this episode was painful to watch. Too much 2020s cultural influence on the dialogue again.

Hugh and Picard was a highlight though, and just as with Seven last week we get a glimpse of the Picard we knew. It seems that Stewart is at his best when interacting with former colleagues in this show. Him, Frakes and Sirtis should be special if the standard holds. Maybe that's just a reflection of how poor and forgettable the new cast are though.

The scene pre-credits where the image of Locutus is imposed over Picard was another highlight, but the PTSD generally in this episode was a bit overdone. It's as if First Contact never happened. Still, he gets over it quickly once Hugh settles him down and reminds him he's Picard, not Locutus (also a nice reversal of their original encounter when Picard deliberately plays up on that idea to evaluate Hugh's individuality). Again, nice scene between the two of them.

As for the rest... I know she's the focus of the whole thing but I really don't care much about Soji's scenes as she slowly stumbles to the realisation of something we've all known since episode 1. It's not helped by the awful Narek and soap opera style forbidden love stuff between them, and the cartoonish Cersei knock off hovering in the shadows.

I don't know what the point of Elron staying behind was - or Hugh for that matter. The guards will surely know that he was involved in Picard and Soji's escape and their mysterious exit off the Cube would have the Tal Shiar subjecting both of them to some mind probing while they tear that section apart for what is obviously an undisclosed and massive tactical advantage (the portal).

So, better than last week, and the longer run time helped that I think as it flowed better overall but without Picard himself (serious flaws in the portrayal of his character notwithstanding), there's not much here IMO

_Kaiser_ · 02-03-2020 1:03am

The Megaphone wrote: »

So I re-watched this too and something doesn't add up - in their techno-babble talk, the spatial trajector would only work on or in close proximity to their planet - it wasn't portable!

Very possible that the Borg simply combined it with their own transwarp tech or even that they perfected it through the assimilation of another species along the line

seamus · 02-03-2020 9:45am

liamtech wrote: »

The Voth - exceptionally advanced with Transwarp and computer equipment capable of over-riding Federation technology with ease

The Voth are theoretically 65 million years more advanced. They're beyond Borg capabilities.

pinkypinky · 02-03-2020 3:22pm

I think you're unfairly underestimating the lasting effects of PTSD. Yes, he's encountered the Borg since but he's been retired for, what, a decade? It's ripped off the scab.

Stark · 02-03-2020 3:49pm

I don't really count First Contact tbh as that was "Action movie Picard". The whole bridge crew "to hell with our orders" was quite out of character as well. I think on the small screen, they would have worked out a compromise such as Riker temporarily taking command of the Enterprise with Picard eventually stepping in when **** got real. Movie audiences most likely don't want to see Picard working through his PTSD issues and so it was glossed over.

Picard 1x06 - "The Impossible Box" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Picard 1x06 - "The Impossible Box" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]