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Leaving the office job for full time farming - any experiences?

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  • 24-02-2020 2:18pm
    #1
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭


    I'm 32, married with a baby on the way. Having gone through college and worked for the last 9 years, I'm coming to the conclusion that I dislike (don't necessarily hate) my job, and given that I wan't to move closer to home soon, I would likely have to commute >3 hours per day to stay in a similar position.

    Not to count my chickens etc, but the family farm will 99% likely be coming my way in the next couple of years. It's a simple beef and dairy operation, milking around 60, with around 280 acres of grassland (split between two blocks, 3 miles apart) that's well drained, but not overly productive. Facilities are reasonable, but realistically we'd be only capable of milking a max 70-80 without further investment.

    With the auld lad a few years off retirement, I'm considering my options at the moment i.e.

    1. Remain in full-time employment with the stress and commute that it involves, employing a worker to farm along with the auld fella. Transitioning to a full time farm manager. I'll obviously do what I can at the weekends etc.

    2. As above, but forming some sort of partnership arrangement with a 3rd party. I supply land, facilities, token labour - they supply labour and time.

    3. Leave the job, farm full-time. To keep my sanity, I'd need some security that (after the auld lad is fully retired) I'd get a weekend off every fortnight to 3 weeks. Feasible?

    Looking for experiences of anyone who has gone through similar, or thinking of it. I've always said that farming would be the best job in the world if it was a Mon-Fri deal, but obviously reality is far from this.

    As things stand, I have to compare my boss and my auld lad for where I want my future to go. The boss is working relatively long hours, say 50-60 per week. (I know this isn't much when compared to farming, but it's a lot more than your usual 35-40 hours). He's always mad stressed, always busy and his salary isn't amazing - say maybe €85k. On the flipside, he gets 1-2 days a week off, but I don't believe that he can every truly switch off from the stress of it all.

    On the other hand, the auld lad has zero debt and works at his own pace but I fully appreciate the relentlessness of farming - always on duty, little to no time off etc.

    Any experiences or opinions would be very much welcome

    Maybe my unhappiness with my current job is clouding my judgement, but I'm strongly considering jacking it all in to go back to the land full-time within the next 3-4 years.


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    #2
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Work out how much of an income you need from the farm first and work back from there. What way is the land split? Work off which block Is most suitable for milking and use the other for silage and young stock. You'll have to count debt as a given as investment will be required to make it labour efficient and due to regs changing. Also do your parents need an income off it


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    #3
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,048 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    First move have a chat.with the old fella


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    #4
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,480 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    K.G. wrote: »
    First move have a chat.with the old fella

    Maybe the wife first ?


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    #5
    visatorro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,105 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Is your partner working ?
    Have you a granny available for child minder?
    It all looks rosey with your father because he hasn't any bills. If you decide to spend money you'll not see the milk cheque disappearing.
    Have you knowledge about running the farm making decisions?
    What's your job, if farming fails can you return to employment?


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    #6
    Sacrolyte
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭Sacrolyte


    Have you completed the green cert?


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    #7
    Cavanjack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭Cavanjack


    _Brian wrote: »
    Maybe the wife first ?

    Amateur mistake :)
    Mother and father first then get your mother to tell the wife. Let us know how it goes!!


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    #8
    Fred Daly
    Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Fred Daly


    _Brian wrote: »
    Maybe the wife first ?

    Everybody that is going to be drawing down an income from the farm should talk together see what everybodies views are.


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    #9
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    Thanks for the replies.
    K.G. wrote: »
    First move have a chat.with the old fella

    You’re not wrong, and it won’t be easy, but I need to have a relatively clear idea in my head of what I want before going there!

    Yep green cert is done


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    #10
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    visatorro wrote: »
    Is your partner working ?
    Have you a granny available for child minder?
    It all looks rosey with your father because he hasn't any bills. If you decide to spend money you'll not see the milk cheque disappearing.
    Have you knowledge about running the farm making decisions?
    What's your job, if farming fails can you return to employment?

    Yeah the wife is a teacher, but we’d be relocating, so her getting a permanent job is uncertain as things stand.

    Granny happy enough (at this stage!) to childmind, so that’s a big plus obvs.

    You’re right about all seeming rosy without debt - especially given that I’ll likely have a mortgage to pay off.

    Experience is ok - being home every 2-3 weeks and letting the auld fella off for a couple of weeks holiday every year, but I’ve no problem saying I’ve limited experience in making real decisions. A trained monkey could do what I do.

    Work as an engineer. Demand in the sector is very cyclical so I could well be unlucky if looking to return to work at the wrong time


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    #11
    babybrian
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭babybrian


    We had a small dairy farm (20 cows) growing up and I loved dairying, I was always encouraged by my parents to get a 9 to 5 job so off I went to college, got a degree in architectural technology and a job after that.
    Had planned to go to Australia for a year and left the job just as the bust happened in 2008. No jobs to be had in Australia in architecture when I landed so went off on the harvest for 3 months, then partied and then went onto a dairy farm and while milking 1 day I said to myself I will never work in an office again.
    When I got back to Ireland I worked on a few different dairy farms and got lots of experience and a green cert.
    Anyway 12 years later and I'm in a partnership with my brother and dad, we will be milking 120 cows this year and rear some calves to weanling or yearling, the plan is to go to 180-190 in next couple of years.

    I still love dairying and we make a decent living for the 3, well my dad is pension age now so he draws very little from it. My wife works off farm, hope when kids come along that my income will have increased with herd size.

    Now we have done lots of investment but its manageable and while working I would have done some jobs from savings to get us moving up numbers

    If you have a passion for farming it is a great job but if you dont what's to stop you growing to hate it?
    Being your own boss is also great too and if you are a good manager you can have every second weekend off or every Sunday.


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    #12
    jntsnk
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭jntsnk


    If you know what the farm is making at the moment and with little investment in the next few years , to find your feet , you can make a decent income , I’d go for it.
    My neighbour hates his office job and what can he do. I can relatively choose what I want to do farming in the day. Spend time with the kids if I like. Your wife is a teacher ,though might not get a permanent position for a while, it’s a handy income, so imagine the summer and other breaks you will have as a family at home during the day. It’s a good amount of land and maybe lease one block farm the other if things get too much. You have options. Just don’t borrow too much. You don’t want to be a slave to the bank. Nothing like making your own decisions.
    Obviously it’s not all rosey but when I think of people with long commutes to a prison for 8 hrs and back again . That’s tough.
    There is of course the usual downsides of farming which I presume you are aware of but meeting people becomes more important to me in the evenings or weekends , through sport or whatever.


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    #13
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    babybrian wrote: »
    We had a small dairy farm (20 cows) growing up and I loved dairying, I was always encouraged by my parents to get a 9 to 5 job so off I went to college, got a degree in architectural technology and a job after that.
    Had planned to go to Australia for a year and left the job just as the bust happened in 2008. No jobs to be had in Australia in architecture when I landed so went off on the harvest for 3 months, then partied and then went onto a dairy farm and while milking 1 day I said to myself I will never work in an office again.
    When I got back to Ireland I worked on a few different dairy farms and got lots of experience and a green cert.
    Anyway 12 years later and I'm in a partnership with my brother and dad, we will be milking 120 cows this year and rear some calves to weanling or yearling, the plan is to go to 180-190 in next couple of years.

    I still love dairying and we make a decent living for the 3, well my dad is pension age now so he draws very little from it. My wife works off farm, hope when kids come along that my income will have increased with herd size.

    Now we have done lots of investment but its manageable and while working I would have done some jobs from savings to get us moving up numbers

    If you have a passion for farming it is a great job but if you dont what's to stop you growing to hate it?
    Being your own boss is also great too and if you are a good manager you can have every second weekend off or every Sunday.

    Great story and fair play to you. It's not sure whether I have the appetite for risk myself to go big with numbers, but it's always an option.


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    #14
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    jntsnk wrote: »
    If you know what the farm is making at the moment and with little investment in the next few years , to find your feet , you can make a decent income , I’d go for it.
    My neighbour hates his office job and what can he do. I can relatively choose what I want to do farming in the day. Spend time with the kids if I like. Your wife is a teacher ,though might not get a permanent position for a while, it’s a handy income, so imagine the summer and other breaks you will have as a family at home during the day. It’s a good amount of land and maybe lease one block farm the other if things get too much. You have options. Just don’t borrow too much. You don’t want to be a slave to the bank. Nothing like making your own decisions.
    Obviously it’s not all rosey but when I think of people with long commutes to a prison for 8 hrs and back again . That’s tough.
    There is of course the usual downsides of farming which I presume you are aware of but meeting people becomes more important to me in the evenings or weekends , through sport or whatever.

    Cheers. Those are the exact upsides I see to going in to the farming full time so it's good to know I'm not being stupidly optimistic in how I see life playing out. A sufficient income to allow the odd weekend off would be ideal.

    As I see things now, I'd be happy in theory to continue at the scale things are at, maybe increasing herd number by 20%, but not so much that extra labour would be needed.

    No real appetite to borrow heavily for buildings/land, but I do plan to build a house relatively soon. While the income looks as if it'll be ok based on current milk prices to cover living, I do worry about price volatility and income security going forward.


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    #15
    Belongamick
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Belongamick


    You probably have to ask yourself what is your ideal world scenario?


    It probably is living closer to home, similar job, starting a family and being available to farm.


    With a new baby on the way, I suspect that the regular three hour commute to go farming may not be as feasible as it is now.
    The regular job provides a regular income and may have the benefit of health insurance and can demonstrate to a lender that you can afford a mortgage.
    I would work towards positioning yourself to apply for jobs within daily commuting distance of the farm. It may take a little time but it sounds like the farm is ticking over nicely at the moment.
    Where to build is the next issue - sometimes building very close to home can mean being 'on call' constantly for farming issues. You may want to consider buying in a town or village close to the farm where your young family can be near schools, shops etc. Personnel decision there.
    Once you and hopefully your wife are working locally, this may take a couple of years, it may be time to devote more effort to the farm.
    It is a big plus that the farm is quite large and well maintained. It may be feasible for you to 'job share' and farm.
    I just think the day job is very important but the farming can improve your quality of life and passion for agriculture.


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    #16
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    Belongamick wrote: »
    You probably have to ask yourself what is your ideal world scenario?

    It probably is living closer to home, similar job, starting a family and being available to farm.

    Yeah that's exactly my thinking at the moment. Problem being that getting employment in my profession is very difficult (if not impossible) outside of Dublin, which is at least 1.5 hours of a commute each way.

    I might have to re-skill or retrain to position myself for employment closer to home.

    Hate that I'm sounding so negative - it's a relatively privileged position I'm in, but (very) occasionally it seems like a burden!


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    #17
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    At that acreage developing a dairy herd which can give you a decent income shouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility. Assuming your parents are on board. As said above talk to the parents and perhaps chat to an advisor or a local discussion group


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    #18
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,635 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    onrail wrote: »
    Hate that I'm sounding so negative - it's a relatively privileged position I'm in, but (very) occasionally it seems like a burden!

    The burden of choice: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/more-tech-support/201011/the-burden-choice

    We all know the positives and the ideal result, but at this point you need to spend more time identifying the risks and downsides.

    It'll probably be harder for your wife. Most moves to a new area or new country are easier for men. How do you think she'll settle in? Will she make friends easily? What hobbies does she have now? Will she be able to continue them if you move, notwithstanding being busy with a new baby?

    The farm stuff is relatively easy, once you get your parents on-board. Take the advice of a fool: concentrate on what'll be inside the dwelling house first and then decide if you want to move.

    Best of luck and keep asking questions on here. The farming community on boards.ie is fantastic for advice

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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    #19
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,480 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Siamsa Sessions wrote: »
    The burden of choice: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/more-tech-support/201011/the-burden-choice

    We all know the positives and the ideal result, but at this point you need to spend more time identifying the risks and downsides.

    It'll probably be harder for your wife. Most moves to a new area or new country are easier for men. How do you think she'll settle in? Will she make friends easily? What hobbies does she have now? Will she be able to continue them if you move, notwithstanding being busy with a new baby?

    The farm stuff is relatively easy, once you get your parents on-board. Take the advice of a fool: concentrate on what'll be inside the dwelling house first and then decide if you want to move.

    Best of luck and keep asking questions on here. The farming community on boards.ie is fantastic for advice

    Excellent advice and often overlooked.


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    #20
    50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭50HX


    Siamsa Sessions wrote: »
    The burden of choice: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/more-tech-support/201011/the-burden-choice

    We all know the positives and the ideal result, but at this point you need to spend more time identifying the risks and downsides.

    It'll probably be harder for your wife. Most moves to a new area or new country are easier for men. How do you think she'll settle in? Will she make friends easily? What hobbies does she have now? Will she be able to continue them if you move, notwithstanding being busy with a new baby?

    The farm stuff is relatively easy, once you get your parents on-board. Take the advice of a fool: concentrate on what'll be inside the dwelling house first and then decide if you want to move.

    Best of luck and keep asking questions on here. The farming community on boards.ie is fantastic for advice


    Op. ....this is the soundest advice you'll get

    I did something similar to yourself, wife was happy to jump ship and move to a completely diff area

    Not easy and to be honest it tested us to the limits especially when the kids arrived and her family not here

    It's easier for men especially when kids are involved....plus the home Farm is a great tonic when things are tough....what outlet/vent has she?

    We are glad we moved now as we both agree it would be more difficult if not impossible to do this kind of a move when babies arrive on

    Feel free to pm


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    #21
    Mach Two
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    He's always mad stressed, always busy and his salary isn't amazing - say maybe €85k. On the flipside, he gets 1-2 days a week off, but I don't believe that he can every truly switch off from the stress of it all.

    €85k. If you think that's a modest income. There isn't too many earning that on dairy farms I would think. Don't expect to get rich from farming. As for the stress. I would think that every dairy farmer has tonnes of it.


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    #22
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Your income is likely to fall dramatically if you give up the job and work on the farm.

    Best option i would think is to keep on the job, or find a better one if possible, and then lease out the farm and entitlements so that you are earning an income from it but have no need to concern yourself with the day to day ins and outs and headaches of it. You just collect rent regardless of whether the farm is performing well or whether the tenant is gone to the wall. There is no such thing as work life balance with dairy. Just work. And no thanks for any of it.


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    #23
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Your income is likely to fall dramatically if you give up the job and work on the farm.

    Best option i would think is to keep on the job, or find a better one if possible, and then lease out the farm and entitlements so that you are earning an income from it but have no need to concern yourself with the day to day ins and outs and headaches of it. You just collect rent regardless of whether the farm is performing well or whether the tenant is gone to the wall. There is no such thing as work life balance with dairy. Just work. And no thanks for any of it.

    If it's to let it out it's his parents asset to do so not his. The conversation will have to be had with his folks anyway but a neighbour put it to me this way once. If his kids after finishing college want to go farming he'll do all he can to help them, but if not the farm will be used for his and his wives retirement be it selling or leasing etc


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    #24
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    Mooooo wrote: »
    If it's to let it out it's his parents asset to do so not his. The conversation will have to be had with his folks anyway but a neighbour put it to me this way once. If his kids after finishing college want to go farming he'll do all he can to help them, but if not the farm will be used for his and his wives retirement be it selling or leasing etc

    100%. I don't want to just see the asset as a simple additional income for me, especially when I have younger siblings (although none interested in farming).


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    #25
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Your income is likely to fall dramatically if you give up the job and work on the farm.

    Best option i would think is to keep on the job, or find a better one if possible, and then lease out the farm and entitlements so that you are earning an income from it but have no need to concern yourself with the day to day ins and outs and headaches of it. You just collect rent regardless of whether the farm is performing well or whether the tenant is gone to the wall. There is no such thing as work life balance with dairy. Just work. And no thanks for any of it.

    Finding a better job is much easier said than done!

    Although I slightly contradict myself (above post), the ideal scenario would be some form of this, but maintaining some level of input to the farm by means of labour and management, which is why some form of partnership seems attractive. How feasible it is, I don't know.

    'No thanks for any of it' - you could apply that to any job I suppose!


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    #26
    Mach Two
    Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    Maybe you could try and get the best of both worlds. Cut back to a 3 day week on the job and farm the rest of the week. I know of one architect that farms 3 days a week and works for 4. In time you will see how things pan out.


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    #27
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    50HX wrote: »
    Op. ....this is the soundest advice you'll get

    I did something similar to yourself, wife was happy to jump ship and move to a completely diff area

    Not easy and to be honest it tested us to the limits especially when the kids arrived and her family not here

    It's easier for men especially when kids are involved....plus the home Farm is a great tonic when things are tough....what outlet/vent has she?

    We are glad we moved now as we both agree it would be more difficult if not impossible to do this kind of a move when babies arrive on

    Feel free to pm

    Thanks for the reply - seems as if you were in the exact same boat I'm in now! The wife (on the face of things) is happy to move, but we both realise that it's going to be a tough change for her (she's a townie!). Even for myself, giving up city life won't be straightforward. But it's something we'll both have to work hard on.

    On the other hand, I have the parents. While they've always been supportive in me staying away from the farm for a while, I know that it would kill them for me to 'disown' the land and avoid returning home.
    I don't thing I'd ever truly be content if I didn't move back, and the wife has fully understood this from day one.


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    #28
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭onrail


    Mach Two wrote: »
    Maybe you could try and get the best of both worlds. Cut back to a 3 day week on the job and farm the rest of the week. I know of one architect that farms 3 days a week and works for 4. In time you will see how things pan out.

    Yep, I think that's not a bad option at all. I'd imagine that the auld fella will still want to do a couple of days work to keep him from going mad when retired, but finding good labour to fill in the gaps could be the tricky part.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Your income is likely to fall dramatically if you give up the job and work on the farm.

    Best option i would think is to keep on the job, or find a better one if possible, and then lease out the farm and entitlements so that you are earning an income from it but have no need to concern yourself with the day to day ins and outs and headaches of it. You just collect rent regardless of whether the farm is performing well or whether the tenant is gone to the wall. There is no such thing as work life balance with dairy. Just work. And no thanks for any of it.

    Personally I’d quit my day job tomorrow if the home farm was capable of returning even a half decent income from it. The last thing I’d be doing the ops situation is leasing it when he is lucky enough to have a farm that is potentially viable enough to forget the office world and work for himself on the farm. Possibly look at some part time local work if there is some extra income needed?

    I’ll always be farming part time on top of a very busy and challenging day job as I love the farm but it just can’t even get close to bringing in the type of income I’d want (for just me even, my wife works too in a good job).


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    #30
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    I work 7 am to 12 noon Monday to Friday in a local builders yard. Great job with the farm and I am not killed. Your out and about meeting people and the few euro come in handy as well. No point in slogging lads life is too short.


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    #31
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    do you mind me asking what way is the land split between home block and outside, and what kind of facilities you have for both cows and beef? 280 acres is a fair wedge of land to have - more than most

    You could make a handy living from say 80 cows and a calf to beef system or something like that - without absolutely killing yourself either. Especially if you had little or no farm borrowings


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