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Homelessness numbers and their impact.

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24

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    #32
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    beauf wrote: »
    Supply is only one half of the problem.

    The other is demand. Is there any detailed analysis of this demand is coming from.
    So these 34k houses per yr. Whats the breakdown of what they are and who will occupy them.
    How are they being paid for. Things like that.

    I would like to know how much of existing social stock is being under utilised. Two people in a 4 bed etc


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    #33
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Say theres social housing, with 3 people in it,
    2 young people leave, as long as the rent is paid, the tenant will stay there .
    no one says would you like to move to a 1 bed council flat .
    The present system is flawed .
    Theres no incentive to move to a smaller council flat.
    these images of kids eating dinner on the streets are fake news ,
    in that there are places to go for people to buy dinner for 1 or 2 euro.
    Theres no one starving, people staying in hotels have money to buy food.
    this is not africa .
    it,s a real image, but i think every mother has money to spend on food
    or she can go to focus and buy a large dinner for 2 euros.
    Of course most house,s built before 2008, have been sold to former tenants ,
    the council either owns new buildings or flats, apartment,s in large social housing blocks .
    I think the impact will be seen in the future on children growing up in a hotel room,
    with no space to play ,you only get a chance to be young once.


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    60% in Dublin City CC council house tenants owe €33,000,000 in rent. How many homes would that build?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/


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    #35
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,034 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Deleted User wrote: »
    60% in Dublin City CC council house tenants owe €33,000,000 in rent. How many homes would that build?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/

    You don't often hear RTE tell you this.

    Doesn't fit the national agenda.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Great news. Homelessness numbers dropping. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/homeless-figures-drop-below-10000-for-first-time-since-early-last-year-38908048.html I’m sure that the graphs will be posted later!


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    #37
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    First an update of the summary charts showing the trends for numbers of Adults and numbers of Familys (Adults and Children).
    They are updated with the numbers for the latest month:
    501449.png


    The Latest Report
    The Homelessness Report December 2019 has been released:
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_december_2019_1.pdf

    I've updated the two charts based on the numbers in the report.

    Homelessness (Adults)
    501450.png

    Family Homelessness
    501451.png


    December 2018 compared to December 2019
    I've also created two charts to compare the last years December drop to this years.

    This looks almost like a copy of last years drop in the numbers of Family Homelessness:
    501452.png
    I don't know why they didn't keep this going for the full year or if they will this year.

    What is different from last year is the drop in the numbers of Homelessness (Adults):
    501453.png
    It has the look of them finding some kind of similar arrangement for the Adults that they found for the Families.
    Like the Family Homelessness, I don't know if they will keep this going for the full year.

    Inner City Helping Homeless seem to have a concern about the numbers:
    'Beware of false dawn', says charity as homelessness sees largest fall ever
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/beware-of-false-dawn-says-charity-as-homelessness-sees-largest-fall-ever-978545.html
    Inner City Helping Homeless gave a cautious welcome to the drop.
    ICHH said: “While we obviously welcome a substantial drop in the number of people that are homeless we would also air on the side of caution.
    Every year we see a decline in the figures in December as many families made homeless in December choose to stay with family or friends over the Christmas period rather than spend the holidays in emergency accommodation.
    "This has been a year-on-year trend and figures that come out in March usually see the spike begin again and by the summer the numbers continue to rise."


    Number of Homeless
    This guy, Rob Cross, has recently updated his tweet about vacant sites in Dublin and the number of Homeless:
    https://twitter.com/RobCross247/status/1221925866143408128

    New information was found recently about the number of homeless people around the country use a local post office as their home address:
    Thousands of homeless use post office as mail address
    Alarming new figures shed light on number of 'couch-surfers' staying with friends or family
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/thousands-of-homeless-use-post-office-as-mail-address-38834776.html
    The figures, released to the Sunday Independent by An Post, show 2,803 homeless adults have registered a post office as their mailing address.
    The figures have been made available for the first time since the service was created for homeless people last April.
    Many of the registrations are in towns outside of the major cities, highlighting how homelessness is part of every community in Ireland.

    Looks like there's a suggestion the Post Office numbers may be 'hidden homeless':
    New figures for those giving post office as address raise 'hidden homeless' fears
    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-figures-for-those-giving-post-office-as-address-raise-hidden-homeless-fears-973642.html
    Reacting to the Sunday Independent figures, Conor Culkin from Focus Ireland says it highlights the lack of affordable housing across the country.
    "These are people who are going under the radar of official figures ... They are people who can also often feel ashamed and embarassed in accessing homeless services."


    Media
    This was bad. This shouldn't have happened.
    Homeless man in serious condition after tent removed by industrial vehicle
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0115/1107513-dublin-homeless/
    A man is in a serious condition in hospital after the tent he was sleeping in was removed from the banks of the Grand Canal by an industrial vehicle.
    The homeless man was sleeping in a tent that was removed by the vehicle during works being carried out by Dublin City Council and Waterways Ireland.


    A young woman in her 20s was found dead in the same week that the man suffered his injuries along the canal.
    Young homeless woman found dead in Dublin hostel
    https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/young-homeless-woman-found-dead-in-dublin-hostel-38867630.html
    A young homeless woman has died in "tragic circumstances" in a hostel in Dublin.
    The woman - who was in her late 20s - died at a hostel on Parkgate street on Wednesday evening.
    She had been living in emergency accommodation at the Phoenix Lodge hostel.


    This is very worrying as I assume homeless would be most vulnerable to this. I hope this is being looked into and stopped.
    Cork landlord offers free rent for sex in shocking online ad
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cork-landlord-offers-free-rent-for-sex-in-shocking-online-ad-974640.html
    A flat in Cork city has been offered rent-free online in return for sex twice a week with the landlord.
    The property in The Lough area was posted online on Wednesday in a classified advertisement site, run by a foreign registered company.
    The advertisement said: "Looking for a female tenant who's into sharing their body twice a week for payment."
    and
    Edel Conlon, the southern regional manager of housing charity Threshold, said: "Threshold would advise not to consider any such arrangement and report the matter to An Garda Siochana."


    This is worrying if hospitals are discharging elderly patients who don't have anywhere to go and end up distressed and alone in the streets
    Concern for woman found near GPO by homeless volunteer last night
    The woman, who was in a distressed state, told the volunteer she had been released from an acute hospital.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/elderly-woman-gpo-4960424-Jan2020/
    A WOMAN, WHO appeared to be homeless, was found wandering the streets of Dublin last night after being discharged from hospital.
    The woman – believed to be in her 60s, although she initially told homeless outreach services she was 81 years old* – was found, cold and in a distressed state, near the GPO on O’Connell Street shortly after 9pm by a homeless volunteer who runs a soup kitchen every Thursday night.


    Supply of homes
    The solution has always been "to increase the supply of homes". The latest report does not have commentary where previous reports did. They used to include:
    The long term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes
    or:
    The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.


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    #38
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Slydice wrote: »
    ....
    Like the Family Homelessness, I don't know if they will keep this going for the full year....:

    ..till the election. After that...


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    #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Love this from Slydices long post “ Every year we see a decline in the figures in December as many families made homeless in December choose to stay with family or friends over the Christmas period rather than spend the holidays in emergency accommodation. ”

    They choose to stay with family over Christmas. So, they HAVE somewhere to go but chose not to.


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    #40
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote:
    They choose to stay with family over Christmas. So, they HAVE somewhere to go but chose not to.


    Choosing to stay with others isn't really a choice, we clearly have a highly dysfunctional and frankly dangerous housing problem, that may continue indefinitely


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ............

    They choose to stay with family over Christmas. So, they HAVE somewhere to go but chose not to.

    You won't get the forever home if you have somewhere to live.


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    #42
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭Field east


    Old diesel wrote: »
    But they are still part of the demand Vs supply equation.

    If they weren't here more accommodation would be available if amount of property to rent stayed.

    The homeless might not literally stay in same units but people in other properties might move into where the MNC staff currently live. So property gets freed up all over.

    Stopping them coming isn't the answer though .

    Your post is of interest in that it is never highlighted- the opinion that if foreign nationals working with MNCs did not come that the ‘freed up accommodation’ would have an indirect knock- on affect on housing the homelessness situation
    .
    Would the same be true re the following but is never highlighted also. There are a significant number of blocks of one, two and 3 bedroom apartments currently being built / just built and rented around Dublin city. You are talking about 100s’ per block. Eg Kimmage road and Harold’s Cross Road areas. Would the tenants who will occupy these not free up accommodation in the city. ? And would they be leaving accommodation of a lower standard - and therefor maybe cheaper.
    SO, is it not the case that all new builds - including upmarket type accommodation- has a direct/indirect impact on the provision of accommodation for the homeless. This , of course, is not going to solve the housing of the homeless, but it is never considered as making any contribution to the solution. Any comments on that sector are always negative


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    #43
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Not if the demographic never shares the same accommodation.

    Someone has to move from low cost affordable housing to free it up.

    If someone moves from America to an expensive new apartment in the Docklands that has freed up nothing.

    What it means is these new builds have almost no effect on the housing crisis.


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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Choosing to stay with others isn't really a choice, we clearly have a highly dysfunctional and frankly dangerous housing problem, that may continue indefinitely

    Or maybe we’ve become a highly dysfunctional society. Want a foreva home? Declare yourself homeless. But move back in with family, partner or children when it suits!


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    #45
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote:
    Or maybe we’ve become a highly dysfunctional society. Want a foreva home? Declare yourself homeless. But move back in with family, partner or children when it suits!


    Its well written about now, our current approach to housing is failing, catastrophically, and the disturbing thing is, we ve decided the best approach to dealing with this is do as we have been doing. I suspect this won't work, at all, but let's continue to ridicule and shame those that find themselves in this predicament, we re pretty good at doing that!


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    .......... ..those that find themselves in this predicament, we re pretty good at doing that!

    Folk/couples on low incomes who decide to have multiple children that they can't house in the expectation that the state will cough up a house for them?


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    #47
    Who2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Who2


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Its well written about now, our current approach to housing is failing, catastrophically, and the disturbing thing is, we ve decided the best approach to dealing with this is do as we have been doing. I suspect this won't work, at all, but let's continue to ridicule and shame those that find themselves in this predicament, we re pretty good at doing that!

    Yes the system is failing, why are people refusing perfectly good houses. I worked on 4 social houses a couple of years ago. Only one was taken up in the proceeding years.(because they were only 2 beds). We then worked on the same houses upgrading them last year to try and make them more appealing. As far as I’m aware they still aren’t taken. These are in Meath. There is another that’s been fully renovated sitting idle in Balbriggan that hasn’t been taken because there’s no downstairs toilet. It’s a joke when the average worker is nearly better off signing on, getting the girlfriend pregnant, not getting married and just put their hands out. God help the average worker with a few children heading for college. Sorry about the rant but what I’m seeing on the ground is very different to what’s been portrayed in the media.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The media and politicians can't mention that we only have a housing crisis as we've lots of wasters compounding the issue.


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    #49
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭The Student


    Who2 wrote: »
    Yes the system is failing, why are people refusing perfectly good houses. I worked on 4 social houses a couple of years ago. Only one was taken up in the proceeding years.(because they were only 2 beds). We then worked on the same houses upgrading them last year to try and make them more appealing. As far as I’m aware they still aren’t taken. These are in Meath. There is another that’s been fully renovated sitting idle in Balbriggan that hasn’t been taken because there’s no downstairs toilet. It’s a joke when the average worker is nearly better off signing on, getting the girlfriend pregnant, not getting married and just put their hands out. God help the average worker with a few children heading for college. Sorry about the rant but what I’m seeing on the ground is very different to what’s been portrayed in the media.

    You must be mistaken, we have thousands on the housing list desperate for their "forever home".

    Is it April 1st already?


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    #50
    Mcdonnc5
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Mcdonnc5


    Augeo wrote: »
    Folk/couples on low incomes who decide to have multiple children that they can't house in the expectation that the state will cough up a house for them?

    Or maybe a couple have children when they are doing well and then one partner becomes abusive and the other has to leave with the children and she works very hard in the medical sector and pays her damn taxes. And is so fed up of people that are bitter with one idea in their head of what these kind of "folk" are like. I help bring life into the world and help save lives every day and next week I will be in a B&B with my four children because my landlord is selling up and I have been looking desperately for three months. The council refuse to help me until we are on the streets. I will go to work and go back to a B&B. Get yourself educated before you discuss things your small mind knows nothing about.


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    #51
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Was there any reason for that child to be eating on the floor on Grafton St? Looks like a stunt tbh.

    A stunt like bringing your children to a Garda station in their school uniforms in early August?


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mcdonnc5 wrote: »
    Or maybe a couple have children when they are doing well and then one partner becomes abusive and the other has to leave with the children and she works very hard in the medical sector and pays her damn taxes. And is so fed up of people that are bitter with one idea in their head of what these kind of "folk" are like. I help bring life into the world and help save lives every day and next week I will be in a B&B with my four children because my landlord is selling up and I have been looking desperately for three months. The council refuse to help me until we are on the streets. I will go to work and go back to a B&B. Get yourself educated before you discuss things your small mind knows nothing about.

    No comparison between the two. Users will always use others.


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    #53
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No comparison between the two. Users will always use others.

    :confused:

    Any time someone posts something that gainsays your "argument" you do this. Closedmindedness.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graces7 wrote: »
    :confused:

    Any time someone posts something that gainsays your "argument" you do this. Closedmindedness.

    You missed the point. If someone working lose their home for whatever reason, they will do their best to find an alternate. They won’t sit outside the council offices or inside Garda stations howling until they get their way. They won’t have time anyway!


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    #55
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭Field east


    Mcdonnc5 wrote: »
    Or maybe a couple have children when they are doing well and then one partner becomes abusive and the other has to leave with the children and she works very hard in the medical sector and pays her damn taxes. And is so fed up of people that are bitter with one idea in their head of what these kind of "folk" are like. I help bring life into the world and help save lives every day and next week I will be in a B&B with my four children because my landlord is selling up and I have been looking desperately for three months. The council refuse to help me until we are on the streets. I will go to work and go back to a B&B. Get yourself educated before you discuss things your small mind knows nothing about.

    It’s extremely unhelpful to those in trying to address the homeless issue when they are all lumped in together. It is a well known fact that there are a number of homeless that are not really homeless - and abusing the system . But there are others that are very genuinely really homeless. They are all tarred with the same brush which is a pity.


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    #56
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You missed the point. If someone working lose their home for whatever reason, they will do their best to find an alternate.

    They won’t sit outside the council offices or inside Garda stations howling until they get their way.

    They won’t have time anyway!

    You prove my point actually. That bolded sentence says all ! If it wasn't so dreadful it would be funny.


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    #57
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Rodin wrote: »
    A stunt like bringing your children to a Garda station in their school uniforms in early August?

    re the little boy eating his meal on the pavement? That was all explained if you troubled to look at reality.

    The people running the hot meal scheme that night wrote this; that the lad's mother wanted him to have a hot meal; they were in a hotel room. So she took him there; he decided to lay a place on the ground. They know him and his mother; where he lives and which school he goes to. Just a kid playing house and the photographer waded in before they could move him.


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    #58
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    I would be interested to see what proportion of those homeless have been offered a property to occupy and declined.


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    #59
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭Field east


    beauf wrote: »
    Not if the demographic never shares the same accommodation.

    Someone has to move from low cost affordable housing to free it up.

    If someone moves from America to an expensive new apartment in the Docklands that has freed up nothing.

    What it means is these new builds have almost no effect on the housing crisis.

    So most of the new occupants for these new apartments will come from overseas. If that is the case then u are right. But what would be the case if all new occupants left accommodation they were renting in Dublin?


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    #60
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Field east wrote: »
    So most of the new occupants for these new apartments will come from overseas. If that is the case then u are right. But what would be the case if all new occupants left accommodation they were renting in Dublin?

    If all new occupants left we would likely be in a recession, homelessness would like be worse...


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Graces7 wrote: »
    re the little boy eating his meal on the pavement? That was all explained if you troubled to look at reality.

    The people running the hot meal scheme that night wrote this; that the lad's mother wanted him to have a hot meal; they were in a hotel room. So she took him there; he decided to lay a place on the ground. They know him and his mother; where he lives and which school he goes to. Just a kid playing house and the photographer waded in before they could move him.

    There were numerous photos in the media of that boy. The others weren’t heart wrenching enough. One of him standing at a table choosing a treat. Another of him standing at a table eating. Another of him sitting on a crate eating. So the photographer was there for some time.


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