Caroline Flack found dead

Hannibal_Smith · 17-02-2020 11:12PM

Tork wrote: »

So where did this "significant injury to his head" come from?

From the lamp. But did she she pick it up and actually crack him with it. Or was she chucking stuff around in a rage and it hit him?

Hannibal_Smith · 17-02-2020 11:15PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

If it was unequivocally a lamp there'd be no ambiguity.

That as you know is a quote from the prosecutor. They're no more impartial than the defence, so I wouldn't base your entire opinion around the 'significant' part.

True. And it was in a legal exchange to the defence claiming he wasnt a victim but a witness so context is everything.

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 11:16PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

From the lamp. But did she she pick it up and actually crack him with it. Or was she chucking stuff around in a rage and it hit him?

From the article:

“The prosecutor said that Mr Burton told officers he had been in bed and “and had been hit over the head by Caroline with a lamp”, and told the operator “she tried to kill me mate”.

The court was also told she admitted to whacking him.

Tork · 17-02-2020 11:18PM

This is the same victim who wanted to continue his relationship and could see the sh*tshow that unfolded over this. Would he be prepared to lie in order to save his relationship/his girlfriend's career/his own fame as a hanger-on....?

Hannibal_Smith · 17-02-2020 11:20PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

This is exactly what i was wondering. The reports differ slightly. Some report the prosecutor as saying he was hit in the head by a lamp. Other report her as saying he was hit in the head by Caroline with a lamp.

I was full sure she hit him with a phone tbh. I thought thats how it was reported initially?

retro:electro wrote: »

From the article:

“The prosecutor said that Mr Burton told officers he had been in bed and “and had been hit over the head by Caroline with a lamp”, and told the operator “she tried to kill me mate”.

See my post quoted above for ease

Hammer89 · 17-02-2020 11:27PM

retro:electro wrote: »

From the article:

“The prosecutor said that Mr Burton told officers he had been in bed and “and had been hit over the head by Caroline with a lamp”, and told the operator “she tried to kill me mate”.

The court was also told she admitted to whacking him.

That's another inconsistency in this case which isn't getting enough in attention. There's a difference between being in bed and being asleep. It's another very subtle one, but huge at the same time because the perception of her is obviously going to be far more damning if it was believed that she walloped this bloke with a lamp while he was asleep. The smallest details can and do make a very big difference. It doesn't excuse a general assault either way but it's still very important to ascertain.

anewme · 17-02-2020 11:34PM

It seems Caroline was targeted by Fathers4justice,

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 11:36PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

That's another inconsistency in this case which isn't getting enough in attention. There's a difference between being in bed and being asleep. It's another very subtle one, but huge at the same time because the perception of her is obviously going to be far more damning if it was believed that she walloped this bloke with a lamp while he was asleep. The smallest details can and do make a very big difference. It doesn't excuse a general assault either way but it's still very important to ascertain.

He was apparently asleep,

“Ms Weiss told the court: 'At 5.25am on the 12 December he (Lewis Burton) made an allegation against his girlfriend Caroline Flack. Police then made their way to the address. 'Police then knocked on the door eight minutes later and it was opened by both of them. Both were covered in blood. And in fact one of the police officers likened the scene to a horror movie. 'He (Burton) said he had been asleep and had been hit over the head by Caroline by a lamp. It cut his head and his face was covered in blood. He said that Caroline smashes a glass and caused injuries. 'She had two lacerations to her left wrist”

Hannibal_Smith · 17-02-2020 11:39PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

That's another inconsistency in this case which isn't getting enough in attention. There's a difference between being in bed and being asleep. It's another very subtle one, but huge at the same time because the perception of her is obviously going to be far more damning if it was believed that she walloped this bloke with a lamp while he was asleep. The smallest details can and do make a very big difference. It doesn't excuse a general assault either way but it's still very important to ascertain.

Some of the reports quote Weiss as saying Burton said he was asleep when he was hit.

SusieBlue · 17-02-2020 11:45PM

anewme wrote: »

It seems Caroline was targeted by Fathers4justice,

That page is an absolute disgrace.
The way they target and abuse both public figures and private citizens is beyond disgusting and I don’t know how they get away with it.
I’ve seen DM’s the owner of that page has sent other public figures about their private custody matters and they were absolutely appalling.
He has also encouraged followers to send similar DMs to anyone he deems has done wrong.
In Caroline’s case there wasn’t even any children or custody arrangements involved but he still went to town on her.

They do the very relevant and important issue of custody issues for separated fathers a huge disservice.

anewme · 17-02-2020 11:47PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

That page is an absolute disgrace.
The way they target and abuse both public figures and private citizens is beyond disgusting and I don’t know how they get away with it.
I’ve seen DM’s the owner of that page has sent other public figures about their private custody matters and they were absolutely appalling.
He has also encouraged followers to send similar DMs to anyone he deems has done wrong.
In Caroline’s case there wasn’t even any children or custody arrangements involved but he still went to town on her.

They do the very relevant and important issue of custody issues for separated fathers a huge disservice.

There is a campaign now to shut them down.

When Fathers for Justice was created, it was a support network for fathers who were denied parental access through no fault of their own.

However, Matthew O’Connor is now using that platform to bully and harass young women into feeling suicidal.
He relentlessly pursued Kerry Katona, posting defamatory remarks, even accusing her of “killing her late husband and father of her child”.
Mostly recently he also began a vicious campaign against Caroline Flack, bombarding her with abuse and affecting her mental health to such extremities that sadly she took her own life.

Hammer89 · 17-02-2020 11:52PM

retro:electro wrote: »

He was apparently asleep,

“Ms Weiss told the court: 'At 5.25am on the 12 December he (Lewis Burton) made an allegation against his girlfriend Caroline Flack. Police then made their way to the address. 'Police then knocked on the door eight minutes later and it was opened by both of them. Both were covered in blood. And in fact one of the police officers likened the scene to a horror movie. 'He (Burton) said he had been asleep and had been hit over the head by Caroline by a lamp. It cut his head and his face was covered in blood. He said that Caroline smashes a glass and caused injuries. 'She had two lacerations to her left wrist”

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Some of the reports quote Weiss as saying Burton said he was asleep when he was hit.

The Telegraph's coverage, written by a lady who also covers legal affairs, says he was in bed. Either she's got it wrong or other publications are interpreting something that wasn't clear, and she just played it straight.

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 11:56PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

The Telegraph's coverage, written by a lady who also covers legal affairs, says he was in bed. Either she's got it wrong or other publications are interpreting something that wasn't clear, and she just played it straight.

Every article I’ve read on the hearing has the same monologue from Ms Weiss where she states he was hit while sleeping. From The Independent:

She continued: "Both were covered in blood and in fact one of the police officers likened the scene to a horror movie.

"He said he had been asleep and was hit over the head by Caroline with a lamp, causing a visible cut to his head."

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/world-news/europe/flack-hit-sleeping-lover-on-head-with-lamp-court-hears-38810884.html

Hammer89 · 18-02-2020 12:02AM

retro:electro wrote: »

Every article I’ve read on the hearing has the same monologue from Ms Weiss where she states he was hit while sleeping. From The Independent:

She continued: "Both were covered in blood and in fact one of the police officers likened the scene to a horror movie.

"He said he had been asleep and was hit over the head by Caroline with a lamp, causing a visible cut to his head."

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/world-news/europe/flack-hit-sleeping-lover-on-head-with-lamp-court-hears-38810884.html

The Irish Independent won't have written that it'll have come from a newswire. Some tabloids will have used them too. That's why you'll have read the exact same version. It doesn't mean every publication is reporting it the same way. You posted The Telegraph one by the way.

retro:electro · 18-02-2020 12:07AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

The Irish Independent won't have written that it'll have come from a newswire. Some tabloids will have used them too. That's why you'll have read the exact same version. It doesn't mean every publication is reporting it the same way. You posted The Telegraph one by the way.

Yeah and you disputed what The Telegraph wrote so I provided you with another article where they also clearly quite Ms Weiss. In fact if you simply google “Ms Weiss, lamp, sleeping”, you’ll arrive at a selection of articles which all quote her as saying he was hit as he slept. She told this to the court.

It’s quite clear that you are refusing to see what is quite obviously written there in black and white, for whatever reason that is, I don’t know. But there’s clearly not much point in continuing on this conversation as a result.

Tork · 18-02-2020 12:14AM

Will there be an inquest into this? And will the details be officially released?

Hammer89 · 18-02-2020 12:20AM

retro:electro wrote: »

Yeah and you disputed what The Telegraph wrote so I provided you with another article where they also clearly quite Ms Weiss. In fact if you simply google “Ms Weiss, lamp, sleeping”, you’ll arrive at a selection of articles which all quote her as saying he was hit as he slept. She told this to the court. .

Yes because it's mostly the same damn article, written by the same people. Google the authors of The Irish Independent piece you linked and you'll see the same stories on The Belfast Telegraph, The Evening Herald, Breaking News, The Islington Gazzette and Yahoo News. Do they work for all of them? No they work for Press Association, a newswire, and if they get something wrong then so do a dozen websites.

If you see identical quotes on other websites then there's a good chance it's literally by the same authors again, or the quotes were rehashed, because that's actually what happens. The Telegraph, on the other hand, seem to have or had a dedicated legal affairs correspondent covering it, someone who would know to include the fact he was asleep if it was indeed a fact. Maybe she made a mistake? Who knows.

Tork · 18-02-2020 12:27AM

Why are you so obsessed with him being asleep/not asleep when the attack happened?

Hannibal_Smith · 18-02-2020 12:29AM

retro:electro wrote: »

Yeah and you disputed what The Telegraph wrote so I provided you with another article where they also clearly quite Ms Weiss. In fact if you simply google “Ms Weiss, lamp, sleeping”, you’ll arrive at a selection of articles which all quote her as saying he was hit as he slept. She told this to the court.

It’s quite clear that you are refusing to see what is quite obviously written there in black and white, for whatever reason that is, I don’t know. But there’s clearly not much point in continuing on this conversation as a result.

But if you put those words in to google. Theyre the results you will get.

There were differing reports at the time of the first court appearance. Some said he was hit with a lamp. Others said he was with by Caroline with a lamp.

There were subtle differences between reports at the start of all of this.

retro:electro · 18-02-2020 12:32AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

Yes because it's mostly the same damn article, written by the same people. Google the authors of The Irish Independent piece you linked and you'll see the same stories on The Belfast Telegraph, The Evening Herald, Breaking News, The Islington Gazzette and Yahoo News. Do they work for all of them? No they work for Press Association, a newswire, and if they get something wrong then so do a dozen websites.

If you see identical quotes on other websites then there's a good chance it's literally by the same authors again, or the quotes were rehashed, because that's actually what happens. The Telegraph, on the other hand, seem to have or had a dedicated legal affairs correspondent covering it, someone who would know to include the fact he was asleep if it was indeed a fact. Maybe she made a mistake? Who knows.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest they got it wrong only your own obvious bias about the incident. Why are you so keen to assume it was a misquote? It’s honestly baffling. You spent the earlier half of the day downplaying the assault in its entirety, and now this? It’s kind of unsettling.

Instead of going with the majority of articles which all include the same level of detail, you’d rather read into the one article who used the words “as he was in bed” instead of “slept” because it suits your own bias about what took place.
I’m done wasting my time replying to your nonsense.

1800_Ladladlad · 18-02-2020 12:37AM

Millicently wrote: »

Kerry Catona on Sky news with one fake tear rolling down her face. Another bat **** crazy 'celebrity' who craves the spotlight. I've lost track now of the number of celebrities jumping on the bandwagon, at this point it just feels like they're using it as an opportunity to get their faces on TV. What's being forgotten here is that the woman was not a victim, she was charged with a very violent assault on her partner and if it had been the other way around and he'd killed himself people would have said he'd done it out of guilt or shame, but because it's a woman the real victim has been sidelined and it's all about her being some sort of victim.

Yes this is stupid and there no double standards at. :rolleyes: dont start a gender war now

18-02-2020 12:41AM

Whitmore came out with some self serving guff about how love island was a bubble of safety and the problem is the outside world.

Yeah Laura couldn't have that cash cow being cancelled

Nauseating cretin

SusieBlue · 18-02-2020 12:45AM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Yes this is stupid and there no double standards at. :rolleyes: dont start a gender war now

You said this earlier in the thread as well and I’m still waiting for an explanation on where the double standards were.
She lost her career, she was annihilated by the press and the police pressed charges even though her bf didn’t want them to. She had zero public support.
Everyone took the allegations most seriously.

It’s possible to recognise that it’s sad and needless that she committed suicide while accepting she was wrong to assault her partner (if the allegations are true).
You can believe both things, it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and it doesn’t mean there are double standards. It’s called being human.

That’s why people are upset over her passing.
Not because they’re forgotten what she did, but because they empathise with the level of hopelessness & despair she felt that the only option to her was to take her own life.

AllForIt · 18-02-2020 12:46AM

I really feel Trash TV should be curtailed. I think Love Island / Big Brother / Soaps like Eastenders , have a detrimental effect on younger people. This is the second time in a short period that deaths are associated with ITV trash TV. Just a few months since the Jeremy Kyle Show tragedy.

Love Island to me is encouraging narcissism, vanity, plastic surgery, drug use, and all kinds of selfish me me me pursuits. It's kinda like Facebook but on TV.

I know I might sound like a Mary Whitehouse but we've never seen the likes of Love Island where ppl parade around showing off their half naked bodies as if the ultimate aim in life is to look good. I might come across as light-heated fun, and I'm not per se against that, but ultimately it appeals to the most shallow aspects of humanity and I don't think it should be encouraged.

I really hope ITV take the decision to pull Love Island, which is of course a massive money spinner for them. Let the series finish but I'd be disgusted if they renewed it for another season.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 18-02-2020 12:48AM

tastyt wrote: »

Anyone defending the gutter tabloids on this one has some warped morals of whats okay

They are awful. Ironic though that the link in the OP is from one of the worst.

abff · 18-02-2020 12:50AM

The voice of reason, SusieBlue #1015. It’s nice to see someone with a sense of perspective posting on this thread. (I’m not saying you’re the only one, but it’s a refreshing change from the polar opposites and point scoring that seems to pervade this type of thread).

Hammer89 · 18-02-2020 12:50AM

retro:electro wrote: »

Instead of going with the majority of articles which all include the same level of detail, you’d rather read into the one article who used the words “as he was in bed” instead of “slept” because it suits your own bias about what took place.

No I read a lot more into that one because it was written by a legal affairs correspondent for The Telegraph, not a Showbiz reporter for The Sun or a Press Association journalist.

Here's Sky News' copy of the same story - https://news.sky.com/story/caroline-flack-pleads-not-guilty-to-assault-charge-11893941

No mention of whether he was asleep or awake. Why? Because they don't know and that's what reputable outlets do.

Hammer89 · 18-02-2020 12:53AM

Also you can call me bias until you're blue in the face but what can be more fair and more balanced than reserving judgement and condemnation while there's a mountain of inconsistency and ambiguity over massively important details?

18-02-2020 12:55AM

Tweets on this subject confirm to me there are vast swathes of humanity that are beyond stupid.

One guy is claiming the showing of police cam footage of the night flack was arrested shouldn't be shown cos we all have good and bad days lol

retro:electro · 18-02-2020 12:57AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

No I read a lot more into that one because it was written by a legal affairs correspondent for The Telegraph, not a Showbiz reporter for The Sun or a Press Association journalist.

Here's Sky News' copy of the same story - https://news.sky.com/story/caroline-flack-pleads-not-guilty-to-assault-charge-11893941

No mention of whether he was asleep or awake. Why? Because they don't know and that's what reputable outlets do.

Well obviously it’s not there because they’ve only quoted two lines of Ms Weiss’ statement. Other outlets have printed the full transcript. It’s up to you whether you want to believe it or not, think it was edited, misquoted, or whatever other kind of conspiracy you’re going to pull out of your hat. I quite frankly do not care. And I never linked to any The Sun articles, I linked to two reputable sites so I’m not sure why you felt it was necessary to mention that. It’s very disingenuous.

Caroline Flack found dead

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