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Caroline Flack found dead

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    pretending to think that the poster just typed "whore" is either facetious in the extreme or utterly clueless.

    No. It's neither. I believe the poster used that term in the very way I perceived it.

    I am using my personal experience and knowledge of Laura whitmore to say that she is not a media whore any more than anyone who uses media to further their career (i.e. everyone)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭worded


    Why is a man that abuses a woman a monster, but a woman is mentally ill? Do people really think
    women incapable of evil? That's not been my experience.

    Mohomad ali said the toughest fight of his life was with his fist wife


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    I get what kylith means - neither Hawe nor Flack could face the idea of their reputations being left in tatters. It’s pretty common in suicide cases, no need to have used Hawe as an example, even if he is the one that most immediately comes to mind.

    It’s also one of the reasons why the male suicide rate is as high as it is compared to the female suicide rate, but where the male suicide rate has plateaued in the last few years, the female suicide rate is rising - Caroline Flack taking her own life could be an indication that she was coping for years with the stress by self-harming and hadn’t intended to take her own life at all.

    The male suicide rate is higher because men chose more violent methods. Men have a higher success rate for a given attempt.

    Parasuicide rates give a much clearer picture of suicidal ideation. Not the outcomes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    But she didn’t kill anyone, that’s the difference.
    The only life she took was her own.
    Comparing her to Hawe is in extremely poor taste.

    It's actually disgusting to compare caroline to that evil piece of murdering scum hawe.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Wrote this about one strand of thought from Flack’s death. Blog url here - https://t.co/vGAlRD4TwY?amp=1

    The death by suicide of TV personality Caroline Flack at the age of 40 has provoked a torrent of online discussion across a spectrum of topics. In the hours since her passing the discussion ranged from the UK media’s saturated coverage of her recent legal trouble, the part played by online abuse from keyboard warriors she has received, how it was important to appreciate the seriousness of the accusations against her and that she was “no angel”, the fact that she is the fourth person with a connection to Love Island to take their own life, the CPS’ role in pursuing legal charges against her for the violent attack on her boyfriend.

    Flack’s career was as a successful host of light entertainment shows such Love Island, the X factor and as a contestant on Strictly Come Dancing. Her down to earth, fun style connected with audiences and it was said that they felt they knew her through her personable style.

    Given the circumstances of her death it is arguable if audiences really knew her at all.

    The genre of light entertainment in the UK and USA is one I find somewhat troubling as I see it as based completely on being upbeat as opposed to being real. Shows hosted by Graham Norton, Jimmy Kimmel, James Cordon and Jonathan Ross are completely transparent and unashamed that no actual personal authenticity will ever feature as part of the show. Celebrities will appear to promote their latest release and tell stories that have been honed by their publicists and agreed with the production teams of the show. The audience will be instructed when to laugh and when to clap. Everything is artifical, nothing is authentic. Everyone is showing nothing else but their most upbeat side for their 5-10 minute slots and then cut to commercial when presumably the guests go back to being their normal selves.

    When anyone dares to challenges these rules like Joaquin Phoenix once did on the Letterman show the audience react with inane nervous laughter at a person who clearly was under stress.

    Ireland, thankfully, has gone another way. The Late Late show has always being unique in that it allowed non-celebrities on as guests to describe extraordinary circumstances they may have found themselves. Or celebrities come on and instead of reciting bull**** anecdotes they talk about loss, depression or stuff that just angers them; see any of Brendan Gleeson’s appearances on the Late Late show. Of course there’s still plenty of light as well as shade on the Late Late Show but at least it’s a reflection of life which is perfect for no one but about having hope for the future and having more light than shade. The Tommy Tiernan show has also shown that it will even push the boundaries of this format further by having all guests come without any prior notice given to the host of their identity. A completely natural conversation will therefore ensue.

    British television media increasingly reflects the image at the expense of personality mindset I associate with Instagram. That, yesterday, the BBC have had the licence fee done away with by the government and the likes of the Guardian have to crowd fund on their website suggests this “stupidification” of the media has a while to run. That Piers Morgan, with his demagoguery, is championed over nuanced intellectualism is further evidence of this.

    Whether Flack’s career as a light entertainment host and the constant fake cheeriness that role demands had anything to do with pushing her towards depression and suicide would be a tenuous claim for me to make. I did note that when Gerry Ryan passed away, the Late Late Show that night were able to scramble together a show of the people within RTE who knew him best. It formed a touching, cathartic tribute to a nation that was shocked by very unexpected news. Is there even a facility within the current TV schedule offered in the UK that would allow a show like that to be put out without it seeming very out of place?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Heat_Wave


    Ironicname wrote: »
    I accidently thanked that quote.

    I disagree.

    We shouldn't regulate peoples opinions. That's horrendous.

    Calling someone a cnut online is not an opinion, it’s abuse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    kylith wrote: »
    He was a secret cross-dresser*, had been accessing porn on the laptop belonging to the school he worked at, and his note said that he had been 'caught red handed' and Clodagh's mother Jacqueline said: “Hawe said he was leading them to a life of ruin and Clodagh would have to clean up his mess. We still don’t know what that mess is". Clodagh's family believe that the details are in his suicide note, but they have not seen it, but they have said that at the very least he had probably been caught masturbating in school.



    *Nothing wrong with cross dressing, but he obviously felt ashamed of it.

    Most of that is red top conjecture. It's very likely that he was delusional. In fact, the experts that poured over the evidence concluded he was mentally ill. Not sure why people insist on ignoring that.

    It's possible to condemn an action committed by someone who is mentally ill.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    Strazdas wrote: »
    However reports this evening say she was covered in her own blood i.e. that she had self harmed at the scene.

    He also denied on several occasions that she even hit him with a lamp. The lamp allegation came in the immediate aftermath of the incident - you know, when you're not exactly of sound mind to make a measured and accurate statement.

    But let's stop ruining Kylith's own sensationalism. His version is similar to the tabloid version - furious Flack tries to CAVE in model boyfriend's skull. He's made his mind up I'm afraid. Caroline Flack is in league with somebody who murdered three children.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Ironicname wrote: »
    No. It's neither. I believe the poster used that term in the very way I perceived it.

    I am using my personal experience and knowledge of Laura whitmore to say that she is not a media whore any more than anyone who uses media to further their career (i.e. everyone)

    Personally I believe that everyone who was incessantly following the Caroline Flack story is to blame.

    The media doesn't operate in a vacuum. Even if you vehemently disagree with the tat published, by clicking links and interacting with that media you're lining the pockets of those who create it and encouraging more.

    If people weren't so small minded and drama hungry we'd be better off.

    Worse still, governments will use this as an excuse to clamp down on online discourse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Hammer89 wrote: »
    He also denied on several occasions that she even hit him with a lamp. The lamp allegation came in the immediate aftermath of the incident - you know, when you're not exactly of sound mind to make a measured and accurate statement.

    But let's stop ruining Kylith's own sensationalism. His version is similar to the tabloid version - furious Flack tries to CAVE in model boyfriend's skull. He's made his mind up I'm afraid. Caroline Flack is in league with somebody who murdered three children.
    Think Kylith is a she.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    jd_lewis__1_jpg-JS551008595.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    2_Lewis-Burton-breaks-silence.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,320 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Hammer89 wrote: »
    He also denied on several occasions that she even hit him with a lamp. The lamp allegation came in the immediate aftermath of the incident - you know, when you're not exactly of sound mind to make a measured and accurate statement.

    But let's stop ruining Kylith's own sensationalism. His version is similar to the tabloid version - furious Flack tries to CAVE in model boyfriend's skull. He's made his mind up I'm afraid. Caroline Flack is in league with somebody who murdered three children.


    I think you’ve a fair point, and I’ve experienced it happen in a number of circumstances where people are reluctant to have the authorities involved simply because they don’t want the humiliation of their private lives being made public. I’ve always respected that, but I wonder in this particular case now could this guy find himself facing charges of wasting police time, or will the authorities decide he’s been through enough? Be interesting to see are the CPS as eager to pursue a prosecution against the boyfriend now.

    Also to the best of my knowledge, kylith is a woman :D



    (And welcome back kylith btw, where are my manners? :pac:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Why, if a person is vulnerable, but still a celebrity do no they insist on living their life on social media?
    Answering back the saddos that seem to get a kick from hurling abuse at anyone they seem to deserve it.

    Going by the news, an ambulance was called to her home on the day before her death.
    Did no one see that maybe she needed professional help?

    I don't blame the media for anything like this.
    People choose to go onto social media. People choose to read what is written about them and choose to engage with the writers of these comments.

    Her death is sad, but only because it's not going to change anything.
    I had never heard of her until I read the alleged domestic abuse report in the newspaper. Maybe she was more vulnerable than anyone realised. Then all the more reason to get help.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    I think you’ve a fair point, and I’ve experienced it happen in a number of circumstances where people are reluctant to have the authorities involved simply because they don’t want the humiliation of their private lives being made public. I’ve always respected that, but I wonder in this particular case now could this guy find himself facing charges of wasting police time, or will the authorities decide he’s been through enough? Be interesting to see are the CPS as eager to pursue a prosecution against the boyfriend now.

    Also to the best of my knowledge, kylith is a woman :D



    (And welcome back kylith btw, where are my manners? :pac:)
    Why would he face charges for wasting police time? The police were pressing charges, not him. Have you spent all day posting in this thread with the mistaken view they the boyfriend was pressing charges?

    The police seen enough that night to take what happened extremely seriously, and felt they had a case against her. Thankfully, the police don't base their decisions based solely on the alledged victim's comments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Why, if a person is vulnerable, but still a celebrity do no they insist on living their life on social media?
    Answering back the saddos that seem to get a kick from hurling abuse at anyone they seem to deserve it.

    Going by the news, an ambulance was called to her home on the day before her death.
    Did no one see that maybe she needed professional help?

    I don't blame the media for anything like this.
    People choose to go onto social media. People choose to read what is written about them and choose to engage with the writers of these comments.

    Her death is sad, but only because it's not going to change anything.
    I had never heard of her until I read the alleged domestic abuse report in the newspaper. Maybe she was more vulnerable than anyone realised. Then all the more reason to get help.

    A close friend and her twin sister had been taking shifts in staying with her the last number of weeks, she wasn’t alone.
    The friend that was staying with her popped out to the shop on the 15th and Caroline took her opportunity then. I believe when her friend couldn’t get back in, she rang Caroline’s father and he was the one who found her.

    It was reported she had been seeing a counsellor and was on medication since the incident happened but wasn’t coping well under the intense media scrutiny and was struggling to come to terms with what had happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    People just need to stop with the social media obsession.

    The "boyfriend" composing a message for her and posting it on social media... though she'll never read it....ridiculous. And attention seeking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Rodin wrote: »
    People just need to stop with the social media obsession.

    The "boyfriend" composing a message for her and posting it on social media... though she'll never read it....ridiculous. And attention seeking.

    Exactly this. Fragile egos that need constant validation from strangers online.

    Bound to lead to consequences when the small minded fans they pander to eventually turn on them for some perceived slight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I think people are blaming the media in the context of the fact that they can publish downright lies and sensationalise trivial matters (not talking about this particular case here, just in general) in order to boost sales/clicks, thereby ruining people’s reputations in the process with very little consequences.

    It has been reported that a lot of aspects of the allegations made against Caroline were hyperbolic and exaggerated by the media, but as the trial hadn’t taken place before her death, we’ll never know the truth.
    Obviously something bad happened, but the full details and context are still unclear.


    The media can post unsubstantiated claims about anyone who isn’t in their favour, whether they deserve it or not, with or without proof, and there will be very little repercussions to follow.
    At worst they may have to pay damages or revoke what they printed, but by then the damage is done.

    There should be more consequences and there should be more accountability on that front, legally or otherwise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,320 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Why would he face charges for wasting police time? The police were pressing charges, not him.


    He called the police to make a complaint in the first place, then when they initiated an investigation, he’s claiming now that it didn’t happen. He could be making things very awkward for himself -


    Use of Retractions as Basis of Prosecution

    In law a false retraction of a true complaint could form the basis of a prosecution for a relevant offence. However, prosecutions on this basis are exceptionally rare indeed. The evidence would need special scrutiny. Even if a prosecutor believes that there is sufficient evidence to prove that it was the retraction rather than the original allegation which was false, then very careful consideration would have to be given about whether a prosecution would be in the public interest. Any decision to prosecute in such circumstances would be highly exceptional indeed. This is because, as a matter of logic, if the original allegation was or may have been true, then it follows that the suspect may have been a victim of rape or domestic abuse who should not be criminalised.


    False Allegations of Rape and/or Domestic Abuse, see: Guidance for Charging Perverting the Course of Justice and Wasting Police Time in Cases involving Allegedly False Allegations of Rape and/or Domestic Abuse


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92,394 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Rodin wrote: »
    The "boyfriend" composing a message for her and posting it on social media... though she'll never read it....ridiculous. And attention seeking.

    Yes I can see this fella Lewis milking his grieve for all he can to be in the spotlight

    We now live in the age of social media that can make or break celebrities


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,369 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    It's getting hard to wake up in the morning
    My head is spinning constantly
    How can it be?
    How could I be so blind to this addiction?
    If I don't stop
    The next one's gonna be me


    Only emptiness remains
    It replaces all of my pain







  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I think people are blaming the media in the context of the fact that they can publish downright lies and sensationalise trivial matters (not talking about this particular case here, just in general) in order to boost sales/clicks, thereby ruining people’s reputations in the process with very little consequences.

    It has been reported that a lot of aspects of the allegations made against Caroline were hyperbolic and exaggerated by the media, but as the trial hadn’t taken place before her death, we’ll never know the truth.
    Obviously something bad happened, but the full details and context are still unclear.


    The media can post unsubstantiated claims about anyone who isn’t in their favour, whether they deserve it or not, with or without proof, and there will be very little repercussions to follow.
    At worst they may have to pay damages or revoke what they printed, but by then the damage is done.

    There should be more consequences and there should be more accountability on that front, legally or otherwise.

    Journalistically The Sun and tabloids did their job. They reported the facts, but what they also did was manipulate the narrative in a disgusting way.

    In the first paragraph, the most paragraph, you'll read about Caroline Flack whacking her boyfriend with a lamp. Then as you scroll down, you'll see a picture of the blood-laden apartment, and you'll read the quote about the 'horror movie' from the police officer, which heightens the drama. What are you thinking at this stage? You're probably thinking, 'Jesus it must've been some whack'. That's what you're supposed to think. It's by design, because you won't read about her wrist lacerations until later, and it turns out it's a massively important bit of context because they were the source of the blood, not his head wound, but they can't mention that higher up the article, where you're most likely to read it, because it completely ruins the narrative. It spoils the picture that they're trying to paint, which is that Caroline Flack is a psychopath.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    He called the police to make a complaint in the first place, then when they initiated an investigation, he’s claiming now that it didn’t happen. He could be making things very awkward for himself -


    Use of Retractions as Basis of Prosecution

    In law a false retraction of a true complaint could form the basis of a prosecution for a relevant offence. However, prosecutions on this basis are exceptionally rare indeed. The evidence would need special scrutiny. Even if a prosecutor believes that there is sufficient evidence to prove that it was the retraction rather than the original allegation which was false, then very careful consideration would have to be given about whether a prosecution would be in the public interest. Any decision to prosecute in such circumstances would be highly exceptional indeed. This is because, as a matter of logic, if the original allegation was or may have been true, then it follows that the suspect may have been a victim of rape or domestic abuse who should not be criminalised.


    False Allegations of Rape and/or Domestic Abuse, see: Guidance for Charging Perverting the Course of Justice and Wasting Police Time in Cases involving Allegedly False Allegations of Rape and/or Domestic Abuse

    "This is because, as a matter of logic, if the original allegation was or may have been true, then it follows that the suspect may have been a victim of rape or domestic abuse who should not be criminalised."

    If the police believed they had a reasonable chance of conviction, which they did, then they obviously believe he was assaulted. Coupled with the fact that your quote clearly states that these types of prosecution are extremely rare, then obviously there is no chance he's going to face any charges.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,320 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    "This is because, as a matter of logic, if the original allegation was or may have been true, then it follows that the suspect may have been a victim of rape or domestic abuse who should not be criminalised."

    If the police believed they had a reasonable chance of conviction, which they did, then they obviously believe he was assaulted. Coupled with the fact that your quote clearly states that these types of prosecution are extremely rare, then obviously there is no chance he's going to face any charges.


    That’s not obvious at all though, which is why I questioned in the first place whether or not the CPS would be as eager to charge the boyfriend with wasting police time. It’s exactly why I cited the part about pursuing a prosecution for wasting police time even if there was evidence that the original complaint were true, because of the fact he’s now claiming it didn’t happen.

    Extremely rare does not suggest that there’s no chance in this specific circumstances the CPS aren’t going to pursue a prosecution, but they may well decide he’s been through enough already and it’s not in the public interest to pursue a prosecution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭ToddDameron


    That’s not obvious at all though, which is why I questioned in the first place whether or not the CPS would be as eager to charge the boyfriend with wasting police time. It’s exactly why I cited the part about pursuing a prosecution for wasting police time even if there was evidence that the original complaint were true, because of the fact he’s now claiming it didn’t happen.

    Extremely rare does not suggest that there’s no chance in this specific circumstances the CPS aren’t going to pursue a prosecution, but they may well decide he’s been through enough already and it’s not in the public interest to pursue a prosecution.

    They don't charge people that they suspect are victims of abuse. It all but says it above. There is no way he will be charged with anything. Exceptionally rare means exceptionally rare, it's not even worth mentioning.

    And he didn't waste police time at all, as they were pressing charges regardless. Which further reinforces that he won't be charged. There's also the matter that we will now likely never know the truth as determined by the courts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Hammer89 wrote: »
    It spoils the picture that they're trying to paint, which is that Caroline Flack is a psychopath.

    If you whack someone over the head with a lamp, while they're sleeping, you quite possibly could have psychopathic tendencies... people sometimes do die from such attacks!

    Quite often what happens, is that someone's behaviour will get gradually more and more aggressive over time. Rage is not something that goes away easily... you have to work very hard to curtail such emotions and control your anger. Otherwise it can spiral out of control, until someone dies or is seriously injured!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    I was just wondering if the roles were reversed and it was the boyfriend who was about to be tried on a charge of assaulting her, what would the media reaction be in the event that he committed suicide.
    I suspect there would be little sympathy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,076 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I was just wondering if the roles were reversed and it was the boyfriend who was about to be tried on a charge of assaulting her, what would the media reaction be in the event that he committed suicide.
    I suspect there would be little sympathy?

    VICIOUS WOMAN BEATER TOPS HIMSELF RATHER THAN FACE JUSTICE


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,428 ✭✭✭✭gimli2112




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