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Caroline Flack found dead

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Comments

  • #512
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Since there's so much talk of reversing:

    If a 40-year-old male presenter allegedly (but with good grounds as being accurate) very brutally assaulted his girlfriend and then killed himself following the (deserved) backlash but also because of mental health issues and his career and reputation being finished (his own doing but the tabloids not letting up) would you consider it appropriate for comments like those here such as "boo hoo" and "best for all concerned" to be appropriate? When, bad as he was, he was still someone's son and only 40?


  • #513
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,315 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Loughc wrote: »
    This is spot on. There was a similar case back home where a lad was arrested for allegedly beating his girlfriend he lost his job and eventually he committed suicide when the local newspaper posted his death notice the comments underneath were he’s a coward, took the cowards way out, hope he rots in hell, at least x is free from him now.

    He was at a low point in his life where he felt isolated and alone but there was no campaign for his mental health or his well being. He was bullied online sent death threats and attacked on nights out. His ex didn’t press any charges but his life was ruined.

    What happened to Caroline is awful and shouldn’t happen in this day and age. But there needs to be equal focus on this regardsless of gender. If the roles were reversed would Caroline’s boyfriend get so much media sympathy.

    Even when Caroline was arrested all there was online was jokes and memes. Abuse to men is not taken as seriously as abuse to women.

    We all need to take a step back and try not to judge free of gender or fame etc. I’ve no doubt what Caroline did was a mistake and no doubt grossly blown up by the media for a cheap headline and the fact her BF still loved her very much showed they prob could have gotten through it all.


    That’s being silly though. Of course in each and every case our own biases and prejudices are going to influence how we judge other people, so to say we should judge without reference to gender or sex or fame is to suggest that we ignore context.

    That’s going to suit some people, it won’t suit others. That’s why people argue about reversing the genders when it’s a woman does something wrong to a man - as if that evens up the scores or acknowledges the differences in the way women and men are treated and expected to behave in society. Those who argue reverse the genders are only cherry picking when it suits them.

    Loughc wrote: »
    What’s horrible now is I’ve seen An influencer last night using Caroline’s death as a way to plug an ad for a spa weekend. It’s horrible they’re using her death for increased impressions.


    The second thing I thought of when I heard of her death on Sky News yesterday was the media are gonna play this up like she was Lady Diana - plenty of people are going to profit off her death, the same as they did Lady Diana and Jade Goody.

    (Kerry Katona and Jordan will be next)


  • #514
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Since there's so much talk of reversing:

    If a 40-year-old male presenter allegedly (but with good grounds as being accurate) very brutally assaulted his girlfriend and then killed himself following the (deserved) backlash but also because of mental health issues and his career and reputation being finished (his own doing but the tabloids not letting up) would you consider it appropriate for comments like those here such as "boo hoo" and "best for all concerned" to be appropriate? When, bad as he was, he was still someone's son and only 40?

    I think you’ve gone from one extreme to another.

    Some of the media have already canonised this woman and are completely forgetting about what brought her to this point.


  • #515
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Im no expert and have very little knowledge of how the human brain works so I'm not claiming I know I'm asking a question more than anything but I do often wonder is the openness of mental health talk now making suicide almost appectable,
    People in a bad place and feeling lonely see others become loved and fawned about in the wake of there passing and in many cases that's what they are missing in there life,
    Iv also notice nearly every gym instructor or influencers seems to give there advice on mental health or say they have anxiety it's almost become a badge of honor,
    Does this help or hinder people who are Truley suffering?

    As I said iv no idea about how the mind works and don't suffer myself so I don't know what's best or worse for people, I just find it mad that it's getting worse and more frequent and its so so hard one families, I actually worry sick about my own kids for when they grow up

    Attention and in turn a platform can be one of the biggest drugs for people. Social media flushes these people out in their droves. System is obviously broken too when gym instructors and "influencers" are doling out advice on mental health. "Hey dont give up guy's, look at me"


  • #516
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    I think you’ve gone from one extreme to another.

    Some of the media have already canonised this woman and are completely forgetting about what brought her to this point.

    Well the thing is, we don't know for sure what exactly "brought her to this point" specifically concerning the domestic violence allegation, she had never been tried, so is entitled to some level of assumption of innocence.
    So while I see your point, it's not surprising that some of the coverage of her life is somewhat rose tinted - she's just died after all.

    It's not like the Alan Hawe death where the "sanctification" came despite, and indeed indirectly because he'd also murdered his family - whereas in Caroline Flack's case she may have killed herself over the hounding she'd got from the media. A hounding which may or may not have been "deserved" but which in any case is not a legal sanction for domestic violence.


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  • #517
    spookwoman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭spookwoman


    The media may have made her a celeb but the media didn't put the lamp in her hand or make her physically abuse her partners.
    There is probably more to this story and that would probably have come out in the court case.


  • #518
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    spookwoman wrote: »
    The media may have made her a celeb but the media didn't put the lamp in her hand or make her physically abuse her partners.
    There is probably more to this story and that would probably have come out in the court case.

    And it might not have been as bad as the stories the media published. Her BF didn’t want to press charges. But we’ll never know now it didn’t go to court.

    Regardless of what she did to the bf she didn’t deserve this. No one does. She deserved to be trialled and judged in a court of law not trailed by social media.

    The lifeboat has set sail



  • #519
    Abel Ruiz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭Abel Ruiz


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Some people just want a battle of the sexes any opportunity they can get.

    You do. Every thread you bring gender into it. How you don't see this is mind boggling.


  • #520
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Loughc wrote: »
    And it might not have been as bad as the stories the media published. Her BF didn’t want to press charges. But we’ll never know now it didn’t go to court.

    Regardless of what she did to the bf she didn’t deserve this. No one does. She deserved to be trialled and judged in a court of law not trailed by social media.

    She didnt deserve what? to end her own life?

    Social media is only an issue if you live by it. That seems to have been her issue. She was going to be getting her day in court but its also possible that she couldnt face up to it.

    Alot of these celebs like to brush off negative news as people simply being haters.

    Wouldnt pay too much attention on her partner not wishing to press charges. This is common in cases of domestic abuse


  • #521
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Where do you get this social media stuff or that she killed herself due to trolls?


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  • #522
    anewme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    I see yer man who made up the valentines card has deleted all his social media too. And the sun scurried to take down the article about it.


  • #523
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Why aren't you allowed to post about Kobe Bryant's rape case in 2016 on his thread but people can discuss the domestic abuse in this case. I mean I think we should be allowed to discuss in both cases but just find it strange that there is a cap on one and not the other.


  • #524
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    While Im not interested in the likes of Love Island and it's ilk, I was only vaguely aware of her for the obvious negative reasons.

    Do I blame social media and the slaparazzi? No. She was a big girl and made her own choices.

    If you accept to be part of that world you must accept the good and the bad.

    If it highlights anything to the impressionable, take a step back when you are under negative social media pressure and not take rash steps which cant be undone.


  • #525
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Why aren't you allowed to post about Kobe Bryant's rape case in 2016 on his thread but people can discuss the domestic abuse in this case. I mean I think we should be allowed to discuss in both cases but just find it strange that there is a cap on one and not the other.

    Because its related. Kobe Bryants case had zero impact on his helicopter crashing. But you already know that, don't you?


  • #526
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Because its related. Kobe Bryants case had zero impact on his helicopter crashing. But you already know that, don't you?

    Very sinister little 'But you know that, don't you?' at the end there, don't get your knickers in a twist. Don't see the difference whether it's related or not most of these threads enforce respect no matter what depending on the case it seems, seems choosy... I think if someone dies all facets of their personality can be poured over no matter. I don't think abuse of any kind perpetrated by any gender is acceptable.


  • #527
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Abel Ruiz wrote: »
    You do. Every thread you bring gender into it. How you don't see this is mind boggling.

    If you actually bothered to read the thread, most of the posters who have been harping on about and raising the issue of gender are in fact male.
    Why aren’t you taking issue with them?
    Why is it only a problem when a woman replies to a post making blanket statements about ‘if this were a man..’ etc etc?


  • #528
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Abel Ruiz wrote: »
    You do. Every thread you bring gender into it. How you don't see this is mind boggling.
    "Every" - silly.

    No, you are lying. That's what's mind boggling.

    I don't start gender related threads. I don't bring gender into threads that don't relate to gender.

    If I talk about gender, it's because the thread is about gender related issues already, or... it's because someone else has brought gender into it.

    I suspect you and your thankers (including the "cat lady" genius - can't debate so insult, yay!) just have a problem with hostility towards women being pointed out, hence go on the attack. I don't see you having a go at others who go on about gender. Although Woke Hogan thanking it is a bit inconsistent seeing as he often goes on rants about men here being misogynists (even if they aren't). But he's a flake.

    Anyway, ignore button is your friend.


  • #529
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If you actually bothered to read the thread, most of the posters who have been harping on about and raising the issue of gender are in fact male.
    Why aren’t you taking issue with them?
    Why is it only a problem when a woman replies to a post making blanket statements about ‘if this were a man..’ etc etc?
    Zactamundo.


  • #530
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,713 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If you actually bothered to read the thread, most of the posters who have been harping on about and raising the issue of gender are in fact male.
    Why aren’t you taking issue with them?
    Why is it only a problem when a woman replies to a post making blanket statements about ‘if this were a man..’ etc etc?

    because it's AH. Did you read the recent thread on the rape case where the guy was convicted of admitting to frequently raping his girlfriend who was unconscious due to being medicated. All of the swamp creatures and weird men's right's activists emerged to blame the unconscious victim.


  • #531
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Because its related. Kobe Bryants case had zero impact on his helicopter crashing. But you already know that, don't you?

    So when Polanski goes due to natural causes will we be allowed to mention his baggage I wonder? Or will it only be he was such a great director thread? Genuine question.


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  • #532
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Very sinister little 'But you know that, don't you?' at the end there, don't get your knickers in a twist. Don't see the difference whether it's related or not most of these threads enforce respect no matter what depending on the case it seems, seems choosy... I think if someone dies all facets of their personality can be poured over no matter. I don't think abuse of any kind perpetrated by any gender is acceptable.
    Despite his past, I still think Kobe Bryant's death is a terrible tragedy and cannot imagine the pain for his family.

    And you can be sure Richard Hillman would be fine with bringing up a person's past if it suited him.


  • #533
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    because it's AH. Did you read the recent thread on the rape case where the guy was convicted of admitting to frequently raping his girlfriend who was unconscious due to being medicated. All of the swamp creatures and weird men's right's activists emerged to blame the unconscious victim.

    I brought that very thread up earlier to highlight how some will always defend a man and take issue with a victim regardless of how blindingly obviously the evidence is, and I was told it was irrelevant and didn’t matter.


  • #534
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    because it's AH. Did you read the recent thread on the rape case where the guy was convicted of admitting to frequently raping his girlfriend who was unconscious due to being medicated. All of the swamp creatures and weird men's right's activists emerged to blame the unconscious victim.

    It's AH, it's always the women's fault, unless it's not and then it's the fault of the poor male tainted by emasculating women.

    Lezzers all of them.


  • #535
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    strandroad wrote: »
    So when Polanski goes due to natural causes will we be allowed to mention his baggage I wonder? Or will it only be he was such a great director thread? Genuine question.
    He's one of my favourite directors even though he's such a lowlife, but I can separate the two.


  • #536
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    strandroad wrote: »
    So when Polanski goes due to natural causes will we be allowed to mention his baggage I wonder? Or will it only be he was such a great director thread? Genuine question.

    he drugged and raped a 13 year-old girl.

    of course it will be spoken of.


  • #537
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I brought that very thread up earlier to highlight how some will always defend a man and take issue with a victim regardless of how blindingly obviously the evidence is, and I was told it was irrelevant and didn’t matter.

    Knock yourself out: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057856515


  • #538
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    He's one of my favourite directors even though he's such a lowlife, but I can separate the two.

    Yeah but by that poster's logic if Kobe Bryant's peccadilloes are off limits, will Polanski's be too? It's not like his death will be related*. Just curious.

    *most likely


  • #539
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    spurious wrote: »
    It's AH, it's always the women's fault, unless it's not and then it's the fault of the poor male tainted by emasculating women.

    Lezzers all of them.
    The vast majority of guys here are great. But there's a small loud few - bloody hell...


  • #540
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    if anyone saw the documentary on Barrymore two weeks ago, you'd get a good idea as to the media and their role in such downfalls. In fairness to him, he'd have had reason to do the same, his life is in tatters now even with no evidence of foul play (which I'm not sure about) but suffice it to say he's still alive and well.
    Justin lee collins had a promising career and when he was fount to be abusive, that was the end of it, as far as I know he's still alive.

    It's very strange as these love islanders and the likes, have the world at their feet it would seem, good looks, money, no end of suitors and yet when the road gets bumpy, they kill themselves. I know of at least 3 young people who've done the same in the past two years. In the 80's we never heard of such things, I suppose it;s on TV so it gets more coverage and you just hear about it with the swipe of a mouse/pad etc.

    sad for her.


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  • #541
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Knock yourself out: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057856515

    You keep bringing up this thread as if it’s some trump card when the circumstances were so completely different they aren’t even worth comparing.
    That case had opinion split down the middle.


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