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Caroline Flack found dead

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Comments

  • #482
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    Very sad that she is dead. But.... At the end of the day she was accused of being physically violent towards her partner.
    Let's not canonise her.

    I do believe that the UK media like The Sun and Daily Mail have contributed to her death. They have hounded her instead of letting the CPS do their job and finding her guilty or not guilty.


  • #483
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If the genders were reversed there would have been a significant portion of the public and media that would have considered him innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
    The coverage and treatment he got wouldn’t have been so one sided and relentless, and it might not have been so hard for a person to deal with.

    Even here on Boards there was a thread a week or two ago about a man who confessed to raping his unconscious partner.
    He confessed, admitted it, pled guilty and was convicted.
    And guess what?
    There was still a lot of people here saying that maybe the woman made him do it and found roundabout ways to lay all the blame on her shoulders for the fact that she had been raped.

    So I actually think it would have been better for Caroline if she had been a man and the genders were reversed, because at least then she would have had some of the people like the above defending her until she had her day in court, and she might not have felt so lost and alone that the only way out she saw was taking her own life.

    Absolute guff. Staggering post this.

    Because shes a woman with mental health issues (and a PR team trying to limit the damage) she should be treated with sympathy and as a victim.

    Id imagine he was told he had ruined her career (of which he benefitted from the perks of fame) and its better to keep the gravy train rolling for all involved and get this swept under the carpet.

    Serious questions to answer as to whether she also had previous form for this, of course will go unanswered now and some bullsh*t tribute will be set up for her towards internet bullying or the like.

    If you want to use social media/tabloids to further your career you better be able to deal with any backlash.


  • #484
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    I don't know about elsewhere Susie but yep definitely here.


  • #485
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,111 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    If the genders were reversed there would have been a significant portion of the public and media that would have considered him innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
    The coverage and treatment he got wouldn’t have been so one sided and relentless, and it might not have been so hard for a person to deal with.

    Even here on Boards there was a thread a week or two ago about a man who confessed to raping his unconscious partner.
    He confessed, admitted it, pled guilty and was convicted.
    And guess what?
    There was still a lot of people here saying that maybe the woman made him do it and found roundabout ways to lay all the blame on her shoulders for the fact that she had been raped.

    So I actually think it would have been better for Caroline if she had been a man and the genders were reversed, because at least then she would have had some of the people like the above defending her until she had her day in court, and she might not have felt so lost and alone that the only way out she saw was taking her own life.

    Look I try to fairly sanguine about these things but there is no way that man who batters a woman while she's asleep would get support from anyone anywhere. And there certainly wouldn't be concerns for his mental health or how many times he cried out for help..

    I'd also add that the "cries out for help" are generally only realised too late in the day and are usually the product of hindsight.

    There were very few people anywhere, as far as I could see, speaking out for Caroline Flack or showing concern for her before yesterday. Now everyone has someone to blame.


  • #486
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    AdrianG08 wrote: »
    Absolute guff. Staggering post this.

    Because shes a woman with mental health issues (and a PR team trying to limit the damage) she should be treated with sympathy and as a victim.
    Where on the post you quoted was that said? :confused:

    Susie was only talking about the double standard here, in response to all the waaahing about what the reaction would be if it were a man.


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  • #487
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AdrianG08 wrote: »
    Absolute guff. Staggering post this.

    Because shes a woman with mental health issues (and a PR team trying to limit the damage) she should be treated with sympathy and as a victim.

    Id imagine he was told he had ruined her career (of which he benefitted from the perks of fame) and its better to keep the gravy train rolling for all involved and get this swept under the carpet.

    Serious questions to answer as to whether she also had previous form for this, of course will go unanswered now and some bullsh*t tribute will be set up for her towards internet bullying or the like.

    If you want to use social media/tabloids to further your career you better be able to deal with any backlash.

    You’re answering points I never even made, which is even more staggering. You’re quite hysterical over things I never even said.
    I didnt say she should be treated with sympathy or like a victim. Quote where I said that, or withdraw your remark.

    If she was guilty of what she was accused of, she should be published to the fullest extent of the law. I think everyone is in agreement with that.

    I just believe that if genders were reversed, the coverage wouldn’t have been so one sided and she might not have felt the only option was to take her own life.


  • #488
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,306 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Maybe you should have a look at the Belfast Trial thread.

    Bear in mind this is after they were found not guilty. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057856515

    They were still treated as guilty by the majority of people.


    You’re looking for consistent treatment from different people where the circumstances are completely different. In a few years that case will be like the Diet Coke break of the gender wars and people will still be banging on about it while ignoring the reality that people aren’t going to behave consistently regarding completely different circumstances.


  • #489
    razorblunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    ollym1 wrote: »




    She was shocking really, is this why she hasn't been out of work since hosting it?
    She was very talented, she won Strictly Come Dancing as a non professional dancer and she also worked on the West End in Chicago. She was extremely talented.

    You’ve misread what I said. She was shocking at hosting the X Factor, it’s why they got booted after one series. I also said that might have been where her issues started you could see she lost confidence as it went on, she was fidgeting, picking her finger nails more and more each week.

    Even Love Island on ITV2 was low key when it launched and became an almost surprise hit but started off relatively low profile and gave her the confidence back.

    Before the xfactor she was excellent.
    I genuinely think that and the comments on the presentation knocked her


  • #490
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,111 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    You’re answering points I never even made, which is even more staggering. You’re quite hysterical over things I never even said.
    I didnt say she should be treated with sympathy or like a victim. Quote where I said that, or withdraw your remark.

    If she was guilty of what she was accused of, she should be published to the fullest extent of the law. I think everyone is in agreement with that.

    I just believe that if genders were reversed, the coverage wouldn’t have been so one sided and she might not have felt the only option was to take her own life.

    Maybe you're right but I don't think so. Do you really see a critical mass of people out there seeking out to make little of a man battering their partner in their sleep? I don't think that exists personally.


  • #491
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Look I try to fairly sanguine about these things but there is no way that man who batters a woman while she's asleep would get support from anyone anywhere. And there certainly wouldn't be concerns for his mental health or how many times he cried out for help..

    I'd also add that the "cries out for help" are generally only realised too late in the day and are usually the product of hindsight.

    There were very few people anywhere, as far as I could see, speaking out for Caroline Flack or showing concern for her before yesterday. Now everyone has someone to blame.

    that is an accurate assessment of the whole situation imo


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  • #492
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Actually it’s been reported that the blood on the bed is her own from self harming, it wasn’t from a wound inflicted on him.

    I completely disagree, regardless. It wasn’t a few, it was a lot. Enough of them to get the thread locked pretty sharpish.
    And it happens all the time here, in any thread where a woman is a victim there will be a significant amount of posters who will defend the man at all costs.
    There is a big enough cohort here, and there are people like that in the real world too.

    I stand by my claim that if it was the other way around the coverage wouldn’t have been so one sided. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.


    If it was other way around she would make a bloody fortune being an advocate for domestic abuse, incorporating it into her TV portfolio no doubt charging by the hour for speaking to other victims.

    What do you mean by one sided coverage?? Should the media have hammered him aswell for her losing the plot? She got abuse in media because she supposedly attacked her partner. Cops charged her on basis of evidence they gathered and saw on night in question. She thought she could brazen it out but clearly wasnt confident the old not guilty plea would hold up.

    I saw it mentioned when confronted by cops she roared that he ruined her career, he made her crack his head open. And then wants to be treated differently on the old mentally ill chestnut. The whole world must be mentally ill if their partner sends texts to another girl/lad


  • #493
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Look I try to fairly sanguine about these things but there is no way that man who batters a woman while she's asleep would get support from anyone anywhere. And there certainly wouldn't be concerns for his mental health or how many times he cried out for help..

    I'd also add that the "cries out for help" are generally only realised too late in the day and are usually the product of hindsight.

    There were very few people anywhere, as far as I could see, speaking out for Caroline Flack or showing concern for her before yesterday. Now everyone has someone to blame.

    I honestly would have agreed with you prior to joining here but then you have people saying a woman wanted to be raped, or it wasn’t really rape, and if they hold opinions like that here they would hold them in the real world too.

    I don’t disagree with your second point, you’re absolutely right. I think this incident has just made people look long and hard at the ethics around the level of press intrusion and abuse some public figures get and it’s making them reevaluate it all.
    Caroline isn’t the first person to suffer this kind of treatment, and yes I agree that if she is guilty, some might say it’s well deserved.
    But words hurt and there has to be some sort of accountability an duty of care here. Because things like this are going to keep happening otherwise.


  • #494
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,205 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I honestly would have agreed with you prior to joining here but then you have people saying a woman wanted to be raped, or it wasn’t really rape, and if they hold opinions like that here they would hold them in the real world too.

    I don’t disagree with your second point, you’re absolutely right. I think this incident has just made people look long and hard at the ethics around the level of press intrusion and abuse some public figures get and it’s making them reevaluate it all.
    Caroline isn’t the first person to suffer this kind of treatment, and yes I agree that if she is guilty, some might say it’s well deserved.
    But words hurt and there has to be some sort of accountability an duty of care here. Because things like this are going to keep happening otherwise.

    seriously would you stop trying to make some connection with some idiots on a locked thread to this discussion.

    of no relevance and just looks silly tbh.

    I'm sure if anyone trawled through boards they could find all sort of rubbish posted.


  • #495
    fattymuatty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭fattymuatty


    I don't think there is a gender thing at play here at all. She is being slagged all over the internet at the moment by men and women. She is far from being canonised. I even saw her being compared to someone who kills their entire family then kills themselves by one lovely lady.

    At the end of the day if she did hit someone(and it does look like she did) that is wrong, no doubt but it shouldn't carry a death sentence whether you are a man or a woman.


  • #496
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AdrianG08 wrote: »
    If it was other way around she would make a bloody fortune being an advocate for domestic abuse, incorporating it into her TV portfolio no doubt charging by the hour for speaking to other victims.

    What do you mean by one sided coverage?? Should the media have hammered him aswell for her losing the plot? She got abuse in media because she supposedly attacked her partner. Cops charged her on basis of evidence they gathered and saw on night in question. She thought she could brazen it out but clearly wasnt confident the old not guilty plea would hold up.

    I saw it mentioned when confronted by cops she roared that he ruined her career, he made her crack his head open. And then wants to be treated differently on the old mentally ill chestnut. The whole world must be mentally ill if their partner sends texts to another girl/lad

    And if she did that there would be still be people (probably here on Boards) saying she fabricated the whole thing in order to get more famous and make money off it.

    I’ve already explained about 3 times what I meant by one sided, I meant more people would have considered her innocent until proven guilty and would have withheld the incessant character assassination until a verdict had been reached.

    You can’t win with some people, and you’re clearly one of those people. It’s ok to think that what she did was awful and still be sad that she killer herself.
    It doesn’t have to be one or the other.


  • #497
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    fattymuatty wrote: »
    I don't think there is a gender thing at play here at all. She is being slagged all over the internet at the moment by men and women. She is far from being canonised. I even saw her being compared to someone who kills their entire family then kills themselves by one lovely lady.

    At the end of the day if she did hit someone(and it does look like she did) that is wrong, no doubt but it shouldn't carry a death sentence whether you are a man or a woman.

    But she wasnt given a death sentence. That implies someone made the choice for her.

    Reliance on social media for your entire career/reputation is a dangerous game and if youre not able for it, then join the rat race and live a normal life away from gold fish bowl. Too many people nowadays want to use it to their advantage in their own positivity bubble but it all goes awry when theres a hard dose of reality.


  • #498
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Look I try to fairly sanguine about these things but there is no way that man who batters a woman while she's asleep would get support from anyone anywhere. And there certainly wouldn't be concerns for his mental health or how many times he cried out for help.
    True for the most part but there would likely be a group speculating it was lies by a vindictive woman, or at least saying innocent until proven guilty.

    And the thread was barely started before someone said "imagine if it was a man bla bla". There was also sneering at her death.

    I don't think it should be forgotten that she allegedly assaulted her partner. Disgusting crazed behaviour. Being violent with mental issues is still being violent.

    But it's still sad for a family if a member kills themselves at 40 years old. Some people just want a battle of the sexes any opportunity they can get.


  • #499
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    glasso wrote: »
    seriously would you stop trying to make some connection with some idiots on a locked thread to this discussion.

    of no relevance and just looks silly tbh.

    I'm sure if anyone trawled through boards they could find all sort of rubbish posted.

    I’m not, I never mentioned gender in my initial post until surprise surprise, someone replied asking what I’d think if the roles were reversed.
    I’m not trying to force any connection, I just gave my opinion and explained how I came to that conclusion because someone specifically asked me.

    There are a lot of important lessons that we could all learn from this whole thing but none of them have anything to do with gender imo.


  • #500
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,955 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    It's terrible news but one thing that bugs me is half the people tweeting about the media and trols online having blood on there hands will be the first to vilafie and abuse the next male celebrity who assaults there other half


  • #501
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    And if she did that there would be still be people (probably here on Boards) saying she fabricated the whole thing in order to get more famous and make money off it.

    I’ve already explained about 3 times what I meant by one sided, I meant more people would have considered her innocent until proven guilty and would have withheld the incessant character assassination until a verdict had been reached.

    You can’t win with some people, and you’re clearly one of those people. It’s ok to think that what she did was awful and still be sad that she killer herself.
    It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

    Of course its ok to think that, think the same way myself. Its awful business for a life to be lost. Definately doesnt have to be one or the other.

    The annoyance is looking for some gender angle. If she was a man etc.... She was a girl with a thin skin unfortunately who cared too much about what trolls in their bedroom thought of her.


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  • #502
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    AdrianG08 wrote: »
    The annoyance is looking for some gender angle. If she was a man etc
    Say that to the people who starting running with that angle early in the thread, not Susie.


  • #503
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    AdrianG08 wrote: »
    Of course its ok to think that, think the same way myself. Its awful business for a life to be lost. Definately doesnt have to be one or the other.

    The annoyance is looking for some gender angle. If she was a man etc.... She was a girl with a thin skin unfortunately who cared too much about what trolls in their bedroom thought of her.

    I didn’t bring the gender angle in and I didn’t make the connection. Someone else specifically asked me what my opinion would be if it was the other way around and I stand by it.

    Your last point just highlights your lack of understanding and comprehension for the tirade of relentless abuse she has received. I don’t think most people would be able to last more than a week if they had to tolerate what she went through.


  • #504
    AdrianG08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    It's terrible news but one thing that bugs me is half the people tweeting about the media and trols online having blood on there hands will be the first to vilafie and abuse the next male celebrity who assaults there other half

    Very true. Id say the business is so shallow, their agents draft bullsh*t twitter responses for them. We must know what celebs think about everything at all times kinda rubbish.

    Always wonder who they are talking to in these status updates. Overcome with grief and rushing to instagram to tell everyone. You would bloody despair for the future...


  • #505
    Hoboo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Some people just want a battle of the sexes any opportunity they can get.

    Or they simply want to make the point that domestic abuse on men is brushed under the carpet.

    Like you've just attempted to do.


  • #506
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Or they simply want to make the point that domestic abuse on men is brushed under the carpet.

    Like you've just attempted to do.

    It wasn’t in this case though. She paid dearly for what she did. You can’t possibly be saying it was swept under the carpet in this context.


  • #507
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Requiescat in pace, dear lady and may angels guide thee to thy rest, away from this hullaballoo and charivari,, A candle lighted for thee in this quiet place.

    Peace. Please, respect the dead? Let them lie. as they cannot answer you.


  • #508
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Or they simply want to make the point that domestic abuse on men is brushed under the carpet.

    Like you've just attempted to do.
    Not in the slightest have I brushed domestic abuse of men under the carpet. Not in the slightest. In fact on a personal level I've done some work to try and create awareness of that very issue.

    But I am talking about people who jump on the "if it were a man" bandwagon at any opportunity. Nothing to do with highlighting or downplaying abuse.

    Second bollox allegation (first from Fr Dougal on Feedback - if I'm misandrist, then he's misogynist... but that's nonsense because he's not) towards me of giving men a hard time. Total straw clutching bullsh1t based on nothing other than not liking/deliberately misinterpreting what I've said.


  • #509
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,336 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Look I try to fairly sanguine about these things but there is no way that man who batters a woman while she's asleep would get support from anyone anywhere. And there certainly wouldn't be concerns for his mental health or how many times he cried out for help..

    I'd also add that the "cries out for help" are generally only realised too late in the day and are usually the product of hindsight.

    There were very few people anywhere, as far as I could see, speaking out for Caroline Flack or showing concern for her before yesterday. Now everyone has someone to blame.

    This is spot on. There was a similar case back home where a lad was arrested for allegedly beating his girlfriend he lost his job and eventually he committed suicide when the local newspaper posted his death notice the comments underneath were he’s a coward, took the cowards way out, hope he rots in hell, at least x is free from him now.

    He was at a low point in his life where he felt isolated and alone but there was no campaign for his mental health or his well being. He was bullied online sent death threats and attacked on nights out. His ex didn’t press any charges but his life was ruined.

    What happened to Caroline is awful and shouldn’t happen in this day and age. But there needs to be equal focus on this regardsless of gender. If the roles were reversed would Caroline’s boyfriend get so much media sympathy.

    Even when Caroline was arrested all there was online was jokes and memes. Abuse to men is not taken as seriously as abuse to women.

    We all need to take a step back and try not to judge free of gender or fame etc. I’ve no doubt what Caroline did was a mistake and no doubt grossly blown up by the media for a cheap headline and the fact her BF still loved her very much showed they prob could have gotten through it all.

    What’s horrible now is I’ve seen An influencer last night using Caroline’s death as a way to plug an ad for a spa weekend. It’s horrible they’re using her death for increased impressions.

    The lifeboat has set sail



  • #510
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,955 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Im no expert and have very little knowledge of how the human brain works so I'm not claiming I know I'm asking a question more than anything but I do often wonder is the openness of mental health talk now making suicide almost appectable,
    People in a bad place and feeling lonely see others become loved and fawned about in the wake of there passing and in many cases that's what they are missing in there life,
    Iv also notice nearly every gym instructor or influencers seems to give there advice on mental health or say they have anxiety it's almost become a badge of honor,
    Does this help or hinder people who are Truley suffering?

    As I said iv no idea about how the mind works and don't suffer myself so I don't know what's best or worse for people, I just find it mad that it's getting worse and more frequent and its so so hard one families, I actually worry sick about my own kids for when they grow up


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  • #511
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,111 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    True for the most part but there would likely be a group speculating it was lies by a vindictive woman, or at least saying innocent until proven guilty.

    And the thread was barely started before someone said "imagine if it was a man bla bla". There was also sneering at her death.

    I don't think it should be forgotten that she allegedly assaulted her partner. Disgusting crazed behaviour. Being violent with mental issues is still being violent.

    But it's still sad for a family if a member kills themselves at 40 years old. Some people just want a battle of the sexes any opportunity they can get.

    Those idiots wouldn't count for me. Irrational extremists are hardly a representation of a wider trend.


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