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Caroline Flack found dead

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Comments

  • #242
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    She was being charged with assault. The court heard details how he told police she had attacked him with a lamp as he slept.
    They are facts.

    And I agree with you about innocent until guilty regardless of gender...but it's a pity it isn't applied to all high profile public cases where it's a male being charged with an offence. That's the double standards I'm on about.

    Caroline was named and shamed, same as Paddy Jackson. There were plenty on here who were protesting his innocence before and during his trial, so should Caroline not be afforded the same right? Being charged with a crime does not automatically make you guilty of it, yet she has already been found guilty throughout this thread.

    That, my friend, is a double standard, only this time, the accused will never get their day in court to defend themselves.


  • #243
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,477 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    SAM SO NITE wrote: »
    i don't look at the outcome just the intention ...
    But it was an accident ( albeit with contributory negligence) .

    Hers was an intentional malicious act.

    i presume she wasn't fully sober when the incident happened either, it was hardly pre meditated


  • #244
    ollym1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭ollym1


    SAM SO NITE wrote: »
    i don't look at the outcome just the intention .

    She intended to hit him with the lamp. Luckily he didn't sustain serious injuries.

    Im sure Ant didn't plan to mill into another car with a child on board. He was a foolish, careless problem drinker with marital problems who drove intoxicated. A selfish prick of an act by all accounts. But it was an accident ( albeit with contributory negligence) .

    Hers was an intentional malicious act.


    It hasn't even been proven that she hit the guy with the lamp yet you know that it was an intentional malicious act?

    He intentionally got behind a wheel of a car drunk, it was proven he did. He was lucky he didn't kill anyone!!
    Im not sure if Caroline was drinking (im guessing she was) I could equally say she was foolish for being drunk and acting like an emotional wreck of a cow after finding texts on his phone, messaging another woman etc...


  • #245
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    How depressing that her entire life is reduced to this one incident with a former partner.


  • #246
    darlett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭darlett


    What does it matter if she was a hobbit and he a giant? Hitting someone laying in their sleep is as cowardly a method of giving someone a brain injury as you ll get. Bizarre to dwell on their feet in height were they standing. A sleeper is fully vulnerable. It doesnt need more perspective than that.
    ollym1 wrote: »
    For me hitting a car with a child in it is far more serious.

    Shes a 5 foot woman, hitting a 6 foot man with a lamp while he was asleep. Im not sure how hard she hit him since he phoned the police and was photographed two days later walking around getting papped and not a bandage on his head or visible bruising.

    The actual blood and hospital attention was to Caroline herself who got cut badly during the incident.

    Im not attempting to exonerate Caroline but lets just put things in perspective here. It seems to me if a man hit a sleeping woman with a lamp (probably wouldn't have to wait until sleeping since a big bloke would have nothing to fear) Im fairly sure she wouldn't have been in a position to call the cops or walk anywhere the next few days.

    Just for the record any kind of violence is bad, male or female but you're the one reversing the roles so lets look at all aspects of such an incident to get a clear picture.


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  • #247
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    She was being charged with assault. The court heard details how he told police she had attacked him with a lamp as he slept.
    They are facts.

    Actually, they aren't facts. They are allegations. He told the police that she attacked him with a lamp. It was never confirmed that that was a fact. It was an allegation. There's a difference.

    That said, I don't doubt that she attacked him with a lamp but they aren't facts until there is a judgement handed down by the court. At this stage they are only allegations. And unfortunately that's what they'll stay now that Ms. Flack has taken matters into her own hands.


  • #248
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    SAM SO NITE wrote: »
    i don't look at the outcome just the intention .

    She intended to hit him with the lamp. Luckily he didn't sustain serious injuries.

    Im sure Ant didn't plan to mill into another car with a child on board. He was a foolish, careless problem drinker with marital problems who drove intoxicated. A selfish prick of an act by all accounts. But it was an accident ( albeit with contributory negligence) .

    Hers was an intentional malicious act.

    How do you know this? There hasn't even been a trial. The injured party retracted his story and refused to press charges.

    Is Caroline not presumed innocent until proven otherwise?


  • #249
    SAM SO NITE
    Site Banned Posts: 221 ✭✭SAM SO NITE


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    i presume she wasn't fully sober when the incident happened either, it was hardly pre meditated


    also true.

    But my point stands. I reckon Ant was just trying to go somewhere or get home ( while not hitting anyone with his car). "Sure it will be grand like"

    She picked up a lamp and hit a bloke with it (allegedly).



    I see nuanced difference to both cases. maybe its just me.


  • #250
    ollym1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭ollym1


    darlett wrote: »
    What does it matter if she was a hobbit and he a giant? Hitting someone laying in their sleep is as cowardly a method of giving someone a brain injury as you ll get. Bizarre to dwell on their feet in height were they standing. A sleeper is fully vulnerable. It doesnt need more perspective than that.

    Did she give him a brain injury...this is gas reading all this hypothetical rubbish against clear facts.


  • #251
    SAM SO NITE
    Site Banned Posts: 221 ✭✭SAM SO NITE


    dark crystal wrote: »
    How do you know this? There hasn't even been a trial. The injured party retracted his story and refused to press charges.

    Is Caroline not presumed innocent until proven otherwise?

    Allegedly. my apologies. In my defence if you read my first post in the thread i have defended her right to anonymity until trial over and guilt found.

    Im merely playing devils advocate with the poster comparing her act to ant mcpartands act.


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  • #252
    darlett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭darlett


    ollym1 wrote: »
    Did she give him a brain injury...this is gas reading all this hypothetical rubbish against clear facts.

    By this measure the child didnt die so that was not an important incident. You're highly pathetic rubbish yourself.


  • #253
    Heckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭Heckler


    Kinda shocked. She seemed fairly sound. Social media and the red tops have a lot to answer for. ****ing rat leeches.


  • #254
    Allinall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Allinall


    NIMAN wrote: »
    You were wrong, admit it.

    Grow up.


  • #255
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I have to say that I am struggling to believe that people haven't heard of her.

    Fair enough, I'd be surprised if most people followed her career but the incident with the lamp was headline news for weeks.

    Honestly don’t remember it at all. Maybe I didn’t watch the news that week? If I saw it online I would have just scrolled passed as I’d never heard of them so wouldn’t have been interested in reading the article.


  • #256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ollym1 wrote: »
    Shes a 5 foot woman, hitting a 6 foot man with a lamp while he was asleep. Im not sure how hard she hit him since he phoned the police and was photographed two days later walking around getting papped and not a bandage on his head or visible bruising..

    Are you actually serious!
    What difference does it make how tall they are???

    She hit a sleeping person across the head with a hard object, do you know what the lamp was made from?
    You do know that every year people die because they hit their heads off of hard objects?
    You say you are not making apologies for her, but you clearly are!

    Jaysis, it didn't deserve someone to commit suicide over it, but let's not belittle domestic violence or assaults!


  • #257
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Caroline was named and shamed, same as Paddy Jackson. There were plenty on here who were protesting his innocence before and during his trial, so should Caroline not be afforded the same right? Being charged with a crime does not automatically make you guilty of it, yet she has already been found guilty throughout this thread.

    That, my friend, is a double standard, only this time, the accused will never get their day in court to defend themselves.

    People have referred to and described the assault off the back of the police prosecution and the victims own statement. They haven't picked it from thin air! No one said she was guilty. But... she was being charged with assaulting her sleeping boyfriend by smashing a lamp over his head! That is an undeniable fact. Whether or not she would have been found guilty or not we'll never know. As you rightly said she didn't get her day in court to clear her name.... But dont make it out that that was denied to her. She chose not to have her day in court.


  • #258
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,477 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    SAM SO NITE wrote: »
    I see nuanced difference to both cases. maybe its just me.

    seems to be a lot of people in this this thread who are missing nuance,


  • #259
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ollym1 wrote: »
    Did she give him a brain injury...this is gas reading all this hypothetical rubbish against clear facts.

    So if someone hits you across the head with an object made of whatever, it won't really matter if you don't have a brain injury?

    Especially if they do it when you are asleep!


  • #260
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ollym1 wrote: »
    For me hitting a car with a child in it is far more serious.

    Shes a 5 foot woman, hitting a 6 foot man with a lamp while he was asleep. Im not sure how hard she hit him since he phoned the police and was photographed two days later walking around getting papped and not a bandage on his head or visible bruising.

    The actual blood and hospital attention was to Caroline herself who got cut badly during the incident.

    Im not attempting to exonerate Caroline but lets just put things in perspective here. It seems to me if a man hit a sleeping woman with a lamp (probably wouldn't have to wait until sleeping since a big bloke would have nothing to fear) Im fairly sure she wouldn't have been in a position to call the cops or walk anywhere the next few days.

    Just for the record any kind of violence is bad, male or female but you're the one reversing the roles so lets look at all aspects of such an incident to get a clear picture.



    5 foot or not 5 foot hitting someone over the head with a lamp could have caused a brain injury. Its a particularly nasty and cowardly thing to do.

    The CSP obviously thought what she did was serious enough to go ahead with the prosecution even though the boyfriend didn't want to proceed.


  • #261
    sashafierce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,599 ✭✭✭sashafierce


    I'm finding this so hard to get my head around. I've always loved Caroline.
    I've always admired the fact she was doing what she wanted and not doing what tradition told her to do.
    I seen an interview with her before where she said she never had the gene to want to settle down and I've always been the very same so admired her for that.
    I will honestly miss her and her instagram posts, her fab dresses, gorgeous hair and her laugh x


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  • #262
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Are you actually serious!
    What difference does it make how tall they are???

    She hit a sleeping person across the head with a hard object, do you know what the lamp was made from?
    You do know that every year people die because they hit their heads off of hard objects?
    You say you are not making apologies for her, but you clearly are!

    Jaysis, it didn't deserve someone to commit suicide over it, but let's not belittle domestic violence or assaults!

    Proof?


  • #263
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 92,394 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    RIP


  • #264
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Actually, they aren't facts. They are allegations. He told the police that she attacked him with a lamp. It was never confirmed that that was a fact. It was an allegation. There's a difference.

    That said, I don't doubt that she attacked him with a lamp but they aren't facts until there is a judgement handed down by the court. At this stage they are only allegations. And unfortunately that's what they'll stay now that Ms. Flack has taken matters into her own hands.

    She was being charged with assault. That is a fact.

    The victim told police/999 he was attacked in his sleep. That is a fact.

    Those two things happened.


  • #265
    ibarelycare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,456 ✭✭✭✭ibarelycare


    dark crystal wrote: »
    How do you know this? There hasn't even been a trial. The injured party retracted his story and refused to press charges.

    Is Caroline not presumed innocent until proven otherwise?

    Her boyfriend pulled the charges but the trial was still going ahead which meant that the CPS had enough evidence to prosecute her. Her boyfriend’s emergency call transcript was released. Her ex fiancé has spoken out in depth of the physical abuse he endured at her hands. I think it’s naive and disingenuous to say that she may be innocent.

    Because she has killed herself doesn’t mean the media were wrong to report on what she did, nor does it mean she shouldn’t have been publicly slated for what she did.


  • #266
    Philip Kind Smokehouse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭ Philip Kind Smokehouse


    eviltwin wrote: »
    How depressing that her entire life is reduced to this one incident with a former partner.

    her ex from a year ago begs to differ

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7821117/Caroline-Flacks-ex-fianc-Andrew-Brady-shares-lengthy-Instagram-post-year-recovery.html


  • #267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sashafierce wrote: »
    I'm finding this so hard to get my head around. I've always loved Caroline.
    I've always admired the fact she was doing what she wanted and not doing what tradition told her to do.
    I seen an interview with her before where she said she never had the gene to want to settle down and I've always been the very same so admired her for that.
    I will honestly miss her and her instagram posts, her fab dresses, gorgeous hair and her laugh x

    True she had a great laugh. Seemed like she would be good fun to be around.


  • #268
    Limpy
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭Limpy


    She had a relationship with one of the one D lads aswell when he was barely legal.


  • #269
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    ibarelycare wrote: »
    Her boyfriend pulled the charges but the trial was still going ahead which meant that the CPS had enough evidence to prosecute her. Her boyfriend’s emergency call transcript was released. Her ex fiancé has spoken out in depth of the physical abuse he endured at her hands. I think it’s naive and disingenuous to say that she may be innocent.

    Because she has killed herself doesn’t mean the media were wrong to report on what she did, nor does it mean she shouldn’t have been publicly slated for what she did.

    She's been slated enough in here alright.

    Anyway, I'm out, all this talk of double standards where it comes to presumption of innocence has me seriously questioning what double standards mean to some people.

    May the woman rest in peace and may her boyfriend also find peace in the months ahead. Night all.


  • #270
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Nerdlingr wrote: »
    She was being charged with assault. That is a fact.

    The victim told police he was attacked in his sleep. That is a fact.

    Those two things happened.

    And if I told the police you diddled me when I was a kid, would that make it a fact? No, it wouldn't. It would be an allegation.

    He made an allegation against Ms. Flak.

    Until a court rules on it, it's just an allegation.

    By the way, I don't doubt she did hit him with the lamp, but that still doesn't make it a fact.


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  • #271
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭AulWan


    I've never watched Love Island, so I only know of Caroline from X-Factor and Strictly Come Dancing. I got a shock when I read the headline.

    A young death is always a tragedy and death by suicide is very difficult for the family left behind to cope with (personal experience).

    Condolences to Caroline's family, and also to her friends and her boyfriend (ex-boyfriend?) who even with all that has happened will also feel her loss. I'm sure that this was not something he would ever have wanted.


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