Landlord wants to remove both lawns

An Ri rua · 05-02-2020 06:32PM #1

Hi folks,

Can anyone offer guidance towards legal links that would assist with the following:-

My uncle lives in a rented house for a number of years now.
His LL has been in contact to say that they want to make the front and back lawn maintenance free and dig both out and put down tar or concrete. Within the next week or two!

My uncle wants the property as is until he leaves (they intend a few months notice which is a third of what's required).
EDIT corrected to read:- 'They intend' but he will leave 196 days after receipt of a valid notice of termination which also validly outlines their exemption from upholding his part 4 tenancy (4 years of 7 left).

Anyone any hard fact links re substantial changes like this? It's far from a repair, not required and not consented to.

Rows Grower · 05-02-2020 06:36PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

Hi folks,

Can anyone offer guidance towards legal links that would assist with the following:-

My uncle lives in a rented house for a number of years now.
His LL has been in contact to say that they want to make the front and back lawn maintenance free and dig both out and put down tar or concrete. Within the next week or two!

My uncle wants the property as is until he leaves (they intend a few months notice which is a third of what's required).

Anyone any hard fact links re substantial changes like this? It's far from a repair, not required and not consented to.

I can't help you with any hard facts but it's the landlords property and he has given notice to the person renting what he intends to do so I personally don't see any cause for complaint.

An Ri rua · 05-02-2020 06:44PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

I can't help you with any hard facts but it's the landlords property and he has given notice to the person renting what he intends to do so I personally don't see any cause for complaint.

It doesn't sound correct to be honest. Works that are a major disturbance, and unnecessary, are classed as refurbishment.

It will be interesting to see if there are tenant rights in this regard. It would definitely not be maintaining the property to the standard it was originally rented in.

headtheball14 · 05-02-2020 06:50PM

They are necessary at least according to the landlord. Not sure what the issue is. Is your uncle using the garden much. Are they maintaining it themselves. Can't see a huge disruption in this work really

Rows Grower · 05-02-2020 06:51PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

It doesn't sound correct to be honest. Works that are a major disturbance, and unnecessary, are classed as refurbishment.

It will be interesting to see if there are tenant rights in this regard. It would definitely not be maintaining the property to the standard it was originally rented in.

Your uncle or his nephew doesn't get to decide that, in my opinion.

the14thwarrior · 05-02-2020 06:56PM

can't see what the problem is.
a bit of disruption, landlord giving notice, his property, could argue it could be better for the property. wonder what the objections are really about? tbh can't see why they would say no

micar · 05-02-2020 06:56PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

It doesn't sound correct to be honest. Works that are a major disturbance, and unnecessary, are classed as refurbishment.

It will be interesting to see if there are tenant rights in this regard. It would definitely not be maintaining the property to the standard it was originally rented in.

What's the real issue here? It is the inconvenience of works being done? It will hardly take weeks/months to do.

Hardly a "major disturbance" - really only a slight inconvenience.

The landlord no longer want the hassle of cutting the grass or maintain the garden. The LL is free to do what they want.

Mike3549 · 05-02-2020 06:59PM

Depending on a size of the gardens, All this job could be done in less than a day, 9-5, what kind of disruption are you talking about? Its an outside job, its not like your uncle wont be able to use a toilet or kitchen

triona1 · 05-02-2020 07:01PM

Does your uncle normally maintain the gardens himself?

runawaybishop · 05-02-2020 07:02PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

Hi folks,

Can anyone offer guidance towards legal links that would assist with the following:-

My uncle lives in a rented house for a number of years now.
His LL has been in contact to say that they want to make the front and back lawn maintenance free and dig both out and put down tar or concrete. Within the next week or two!

My uncle wants the property as is until he leaves (they intend a few months notice which is a third of what's required).

Anyone any hard fact links re substantial changes like this? It's far from a repair, not required and not consented to.

For the duration of the tenancy it is your uncles home, ignore anyone who says otherwise. If he doesn't want to allow the gardens to be concreted over he can refuse.

Specifically the tenant is entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property and the landlord cannot enter without permission except in certain circumstances, of which this is not one.

micar · 05-02-2020 07:05PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

For the duration of the tenancy it is your uncles home, ignore anyone who says otherwise. If he doesn't want to allow the gardens to be concreted over he can refuse.

The opening chapter of "the hitchhikes guide to the galaxy" come to mind .

runawaybishop · 05-02-2020 07:07PM

micar wrote: »

The opening chapter of "the hitchhikes guide to the galaxy" come to mind .

The op asked for specific advice, not to be told fantasies.

Rows Grower · 05-02-2020 07:14PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

For the duration of the tenancy it is your uncles home, ignore anyone who says otherwise. If he doesn't want to allow the gardens to be concreted over he can refuse.

Specifically the tenant is entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property and the landlord cannot enter without permission except in certain circumstances, of which this is not one.

You're losing the run of yourself, runawaybishop.

Gumbo · 05-02-2020 07:19PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

The op asked for specific advice, not to be told fantasies.

What you posted is a fantasy in fairness.
It is the tenants home, it’s the landlords property.

He has given notice as required to do.
The OP is claiming it’s refurbishment, if that’s the case then count it lucky that the landlord hasn’t asked the tenants to leave during this refurbishment.

blackbox · 05-02-2020 07:22PM

Did the tenant offer to mow the grass?

cameramonkey · 05-02-2020 07:24PM

CC might want to look at it regarding SUD. They dont like lots of paved areas as it make overload the drains.

runawaybishop · 05-02-2020 07:27PM

kceire wrote: »

What you posted is a fantasy in fairness.
It is the tenants home, it’s the landlords property.

He has given notice as required to do.
The OP is claiming it’s refurbishment, if that’s the case then count it lucky that the landlord hasn’t asked the tenants to leave during this refurbishment.

Incorrect. The tenant does not need to grant permission for access. The landlord cannot make significant changes anyway without permission.

Notice must be agreed. There is no requirement to agree to notice unless it's a periodic inspection.

Outkast_IRE · 05-02-2020 07:35PM

As said above , i believe the local council will require planning permission. Plenty of chancers do it without but at a massive risk of being told to take it out.

The Student · 05-02-2020 07:51PM

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

As said above , i believe the local council will require planning permission. Plenty of chancers do it without but at a massive risk of being told to take it out.

Planning permission is only required if you are removing the garden wall at the front. You do not need planning permission to pave driveway or garden.

An Ri rua · 05-02-2020 07:53PM

the14thwarrior wrote: »

can't see what the problem is.
a bit of disruption, landlord giving notice, his property, could argue it could be better for the property. wonder what the objections are really about? tbh can't see why they would say no

He's been there 8 years, never missed a payment and saw them 4 times. He's done all the maintenance so it's not abou that. They want him out in 8-10 wks so they can move a family member in and this is preparatory work for that they say.

runawaybishop · 05-02-2020 07:54PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

He's been there 8 years, never missed a payment and saw them 4 times. He's done all the maintenance so it's not abou that. They want him out in 8-10 wks so they can move a family member in and this is preparatory work for that they say.

Unless he has a fixed term lease then he will have to vacate, given the correct notice, if a family member is moving in.

An Ri rua · 05-02-2020 07:56PM

blackbox wrote: »

Did the tenant offer to mow the grass?

Sory I should have spelled all that out. Hopefully my last post sheds light on this. They want him out in 2 months, he's entitled to 7. Great relationship in that he paid and they almost never showed up. Zero maintenance in 8 years. He even cut large boundary hedges.
It looks like sleight of hand.

An Ri rua · 05-02-2020 07:58PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

Unless he has a fixed term lease then he will have to vacate, given the correct notice, if a family member is moving in.

He's part 4 so I've told him 196 days as advised by Threshold.
It's the disturbance of these works. He has a classic car parked which they want moved. I think that's insane.

micar · 05-02-2020 08:03PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

He has a classic car parked which they want moved. I think that's insane.

Ah here......you really think moving a car is insane.

runawaybishop · 05-02-2020 08:15PM

micar wrote: »

Ah here......you really think moving a car is insane.

The landlord cannot dictate that a tenant cannot park a car in their driveway

Gumbo · 05-02-2020 08:15PM

cameramonkey wrote: »

CC might want to look at it regarding SUD. They dont like lots of paved areas as it make overload the drains.

SUDS calculations for a development occurs at planning stage or before hand. At this stage, I don’t think there’s a planning law that can be enforced u less there’s a specific condition on the planning restricting the provision of hard standing surfaces in a rear garden.

Personally, I’m 20 years of dealing with planning applications, I haven’t come across one yet.

runawaybishop wrote: »

Incorrect. The tenant does not need to grant permission for access. The landlord cannot make significant changes anyway without permission.

Notice must be agreed. There is no requirement to agree to notice unless it's a periodic inspection.

If your correct maybe you can show a piece of legislation that prohibits the LL doing this. If I’m wrong then I’m Wrong and I’ll admit that but I don’t think there’s any law there.

Peaceful enjoyment is to stop a LL turning up everyday and unannounced. Notice given to the tenancy would not be a breach of tenants peaceful enjoyment assuming it’s not an hour or 2. It would want to be a few weeks in my opinion.

The tenant doesn’t have to agree to the notice. If they purposely loose the LL then I’m sure he can just evict or turn up.

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

As said above , i believe the local council will require planning permission. Plenty of chancers do it without but at a massive risk of being told to take it out.

Not aware of any. Can you show me any planning applications to pave rear and front garden. They are on the public website if your local council if any so no data or privacy breaches to be wary of.

Gumbo · 05-02-2020 08:16PM

An Ri rua wrote: »

He's been there 8 years, never missed a payment and saw them 4 times. He's done all the maintenance so it's not abou that. They want him out in 8-10 wks so they can move a family member in and this is preparatory work for that they say.

If correct notice for ending the tenancy has been served and accepted then the LL should just wait to do these works.

micar · 05-02-2020 08:19PM

micar wrote: »

Ah here......you really think moving a car is insane.

runawaybishop wrote: »

The landlord cannot dictate that a tenant cannot park a car in their driveway

Resort to pettiness. Brilliant!!!

Or just co operate.

1hnr79jr65 · 05-02-2020 08:25PM

Rather than fight this, perhaps your family can mention to the LL that if they intend to sell in future, that 2 paved gardens will reduce the value of the home and potential volume of buyers, specifically families who may want gardens for children, or someone who is avid gardener.

Maybe the LL would see the logic in this and at least retain the back garden and ur family member can offer to maintain it.

DubCount · 05-02-2020 08:44PM

This thread is everything I hate about the current Irish Rental Market. This is what years of under-supply and over-regulation have done. For whatever reason, there is a falling out between the landlord and the tenant. It happens. In stead of being able to sit down, come to an agreement, or shake hands and agree to part ways, both parties are stuck with each other. The tenant cant leave because there is nowhere else to rent, and the Landlord cant force the tenant to leave due to a constantly growing set of regulations. Its like they are caught in a bad marriage without being allowed to divorce.

As we are where we are, I don't believe there is anything stopping the Landlord doing the works. He has given reasonable notice and it does not look like a major inconvenience. The tenant can try going to the RTB to claim it is an attempt at a constructive eviction and a failure of the Landlord to allow peaceful enjoyment of the property. Ultimately though, how have we gotten to a situation where laying a pavement and moving a car should require the intervention of the RTB, or even a thread looking for advice.

An Ri rua · 05-02-2020 09:36PM

micar wrote: »

Ah here......you really think moving a car is insane.

It doesn't start. Why should he, immediately, for something he hasn't planned not is needed?

Landlord wants to remove both lawns

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