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General Election TV debates

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Comments

  • #3392
    misterme123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭misterme123


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I doubt it. Do you think the woman only began raising the issue in the last week? Or maybe FF/FG/RTE only heard about Paul Quinn this week, like most of us I'd imagine.


    The murder was a notable news story at the time. Many people who only occasionally read the news would remember the case even if his killers hadn't been connected to Sinn Féin. That you never heard of it doesn't mean anything.


  • #3393
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭1641


    maccored wrote: »
    this is deflection. the SCC has no jurisdiction in Armagh. SF isnt linked to the murderers - so lets get back to the point .... why do SF have to apologise but no-one else does?


    Absolutely - In just the same way as the National Socialist Party had no links to the Brownshirts.


  • #3394
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,592 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    The fake tweet which scuppered Sean Gallagher in the presidential election has come back to haunt SF.Mary lou had her Sean Gallagher moment Last night!


  • #3395
    Sarcozies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭Sarcozies


    Does anyone else think it's odd that immigration didn't come up once last night? I don't care what side of the aisle your views are on, the fact it was not even up for discussion is so suspicious.


  • #3396
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    maccored wrote: »
    this is deflection. the SCC has no jurisdiction in Armagh. SF isnt linked to the murderers - so lets get back to the point .... why do SF have to apologise but no-one else does?

    Presumably because Conor Murphy said Paul Quinn was involved in criminality.

    https://www.independent.ie/videos/conor-murphy-discusses-paul-quinn-being-involved-in-criminality-in-interview-clip-38928671.html


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  • #3397
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Who says no else has to? That’s beside the point tbh.

    My problem is that there are an awful lot of people who are apparently prepared to act as of Sinn Fein’s darker elements don’t matter in order to vote them into power.

    You are saying no-one has to when you say ff and fg dont need to apologise. Why do sf?

    You second point makes no sense - unless youve never heard of whats been happening up the road


  • #3398
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,573 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    elperello wrote: »
    Presumably because Conor Murphy said Paul Quinn was involved in criminality.

    https://www.independent.ie/videos/conor-murphy-discusses-paul-quinn-being-involved-in-criminality-in-interview-clip-38928671.html

    As posted elsewhere, Bertie Ahern indicated the same to the Dáil, no less.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112454019&postcount=1992


  • #3399
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    If she wants an apology for something that SF lad said it's his personal call quite frankly unless it was false, then he certainly should. If the lad was involved in criminality, I might apoloigise for using her son as a soundbite, but not the content, if true.
    FF/FG's time might be better spent being genuine and looking into the case beyond this election IMO. Years before would have been nice too.
    Would you apologise to her if it made her feel better or would you insist it had nothing to do with you?

    “That Sinn Fein lad”. He is the minister for finance in Northern Ireland.

    I would apologise if I had called the woman’s murdered son a criminal. Lied about it. Then only told the truth when caught out about it on live TV.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #3400
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,772 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    elperello wrote: »
    Presumably because Conor Murphy said Paul Quinn was involved in criminality.

    https://www.independent.ie/videos/conor-murphy-discusses-paul-quinn-being-involved-in-criminality-in-interview-clip-38928671.html

    Going by the info he received, yes he did. How do you know he is incorrect?


  • #3401
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    This SF narrative of using victims to score points is a handy deflection argument.
    But every time I hear it I think of Mary Lou walking over dead bodies trying to pretend it never happened.

    Or maybe someone covered her eyes

    https://i.imgur.com/m0zW5uA.mp4



    mqlub1x.

    No. The argument is it's nothing to do with ML, or in the Quinn case SF at all, even historically.
    The reasoning for FF/FG being full of it with the faux concern is using victims to score points.

    You seen this?
    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    Interesting comment by Bertie Ahern in 2007:

    The murder in Monaghan last month of Paul Quinn "was not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place", the Taoiseach told the Dáil.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda-says-quinn-killing-a-criminal-feud-ahern-1.982248?mode=amp


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  • #3402
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    misterme123 wrote: »
    The murder was a notable news story at the time. Many people who only occasionally read the news would remember the case even if his killers hadn't been connected to Sinn Féin. That you never heard of it doesn't mean anything.

    It means it wasn't an issue worth mentioning by FF/FG until very recently, which is my actual point.


  • #3403
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    1641 wrote: »
    Absolutely - In just the same way as the National Socialist Party had no links to the Brownshirts.

    Ouch, you're thinking of Fine Gael and the blueshirts.


  • #3404
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    The fake tweet which scuppered Sean Gallagher in the presidential election has come back to haunt SF.Mary lou had her Sean Gallagher moment Last night!

    The country dodged a bullet there, (no pun intended). The contents were legitimate.


  • #3405
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    “That Sinn Fein lad”. He is the minister for finance in Northern Ireland.

    I would apologise if I had called the woman’s murdered son a criminal. Lied about it. Then only told the truth when caught out about it on live TV.

    I don't have the names of every minister up north on the tip of my tongue.
    Good for you.


  • #3406
    misterme123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭misterme123


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It isn't too long ago that the Garda Commissioner was dismissing claims that the border was a 'lawless zone'.

    What have FG and FF ever done about border smuggling?

    When a Quinn executive is beaten savagely they can task the GC to act and get things sorted pronto, having ignored 8yrs of similar intimidation and even attacks on the gardai themselves.

    No questions to ask there?


    The Gardaí response to border smuggling has been insufficient. But focussing on that as a way to defend the people actually doing the smuggling is laughably illogical. Can you not see that?


  • #3407
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    It means it wasn't an issue worth mentioning by FF/FG until very recently, which is my actual point.

    Quinn’s mother used the election as an opportunity to highlight how her son was horrifically murdered by men with extremely close links to the PIRA. What would you have had FF and FG do? Ignore it? Tell her to come back after the election? When exactly is a good time to discuss how her son has every bone in his body below his neck broken because he has the temerity to get into a fight with the son of some IRA sociopath?


  • #3408
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,573 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    misterme123 wrote: »
    The Gardaí response to border smuggling has been insufficient. But focussing on that as a way to defend the people actually doing the smuggling is laughably illogical. Can you not see that?

    I'm defending the people doing the smuggling?

    Are you serious here?


  • #3409
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,980 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    No. The argument is it's nothing to do with ML, or in the Quinn case SF at all, even historically.
    The reasoning for FF/FG being full of it with the faux concern is using victims to score points.

    You seen this?

    That sounds like a fudge to me based on mimimal infomation at hand 12 years ago.

    Why does Paul Quinn's mother say the following so?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mother-of-alleged-ira-victim-urges-electorate-to-remember-her-son-when-voting-1.4160675

    I suppose she is expressing 'faux concern' as well? :rolleyes:

    Again these are not the type of discussions people have about normal political parties.
    But of course SF is more than a party...

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #3410
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,147 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    I don't have the names of every minister up north on the tip of my tongue.
    Good for you.

    It’s not like his name hasn’t been front and centre in the news and prominent in the debate last night.

    Were you watching the debate?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #3411
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Quinn’s mother used the election as an opportunity to highlight how her son was horrifically murdered by men with extremely close links to the PIRA. What would you have had FF and FG do? Ignore it? Tell her to come back after the election? When exactly is a good time to discuss how her son has every bone in his body below his neck broken because he has the temerity to get into a fight with the son of some IRA sociopath?

    Fair play to her. It's sad FF/FG couldn't give two f***s every other time over the years. Not since then leader Bertie Ahern said it was among criminals. Maybe Murphy, (Murphy SS?) got his info off of Ahern.
    From 'extremely close links' to 'some IRA'.
    Look, FF/FG couldn't care less and are using the mother for political points. Great she's getting the attention but unfortunate it means nothing. As I said if he were some criminal in Blanchards town they mightn't even comment.


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  • #3412
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭1641


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Ouch, you're thinking of Fine Gael and the blueshirts.




    No. Just a murder gang and a political party joined at the hip but practising (im)plausible deniability.


  • #3413
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    It’s not like his name hasn’t been front and centre in the news and prominent in the debate last night.

    Were you watching the debate?

    No. Read about it. Dropped in and out. Not arsed learning all their names up there SS. I don't follow the north past bigger issues relating to the country at large. I couldn't name all the FG ministers either to be honest.


  • #3414
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,573 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    That sounds like a fudge to me based on mimimal infomation at hand 12 years ago.

    Why does Paul Quinn's mother say the following so?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mother-of-alleged-ira-victim-urges-electorate-to-remember-her-son-when-voting-1.4160675

    I suppose she is expressing 'faux concern' as well? :rolleyes:

    Again these are not the type of discussions people have about normal political parties.
    But of course SF is more than a party...

    SF have an almost 40 year conflict/war in their recent history...where have you been?
    Of course they are not a 'normal party' in the sense the modern FG or FF party are. But they too once emerged from a decade or more of bitter and violent struggle.


  • #3415
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Decrying using victims to score points. If he were beaten to death in a working class burb of Dublin it would be news for a day or two and forgotten. I doubt Flanagan would even comment. So no, I don't believe the faux outrage and do not like victims or their families being used so cheaply.
    I hope ML stands firm and does not bow to this politically motivated bull****. Leave these things to the authorities. Maybe if they went after the perpetrators rather than ML Mrs. Quinn might get better closure.

    So victims of homelessness shouldn't be used to score points, or is it just victims of the IRA supported by Sinn Fein who shouldn't be used to score points.


  • #3416
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    1641 wrote: »
    No. Just a murder gang and a political party joined at the hip but practising (im)plausible deniability.

    No, that's still Fine Gael. Granted historically.


  • #3417
    rob316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,670 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Sarcozies wrote: »
    Does anyone else think it's odd that immigration didn't come up once last night? I don't care what side of the aisle your views are on, the fact it was not even up for discussion is so suspicious.

    Be a boring topic considering all 3 parties are pro immigration.


  • #3418
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭1641


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    No, that's still Fine Gael. Granted historically.


    And Sinn Fein currently. Thank you!


  • #3419
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    So victims of homelessness shouldn't be used to score points, or is it just victims of the IRA supported by Sinn Fein who shouldn't be used to score points.

    Government ministers, like it or not, carry responsibility for how society functions. The homeless are not some social subset different from you or I, they are homeless people. Irish people under the care and authority of the Irish state. Currently run by FF/FG. So FF/FG should be called out on every issue under their remit how ever uncomfortable for their spin merchants.
    You were attacking a homeless charity the other day because they called out FG false figures.
    I'd suggest you contact the proper authorities and the IRA with any gripes you might have. The homeless are FG/FF's responsibility. The Paul Quinn murder has zero to do with ML or SF and Bertie Ahern, when leading Ireland stated nothing to do with the IRA either.

    Here's another issue for FF/FG to dodge in this jurisdiction:
    Thousands taking part in protest over childcare 'crisis'
    00138c28-800.jpg
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0205/1113244-childcare-funding/


  • #3420
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Government ministers, like it or not, carry responsibility for how society functions. The homeless are not some social subset different from you or I, they are homeless people. Irish people under the care and authority of the Irish state. Currently run by FF/FG. So FF/FG should be called out on every issue under their remit how ever uncomfortable for their spin merchants.
    You were attacking a homeless charity the other day because they called out FG false figures.
    I'd suggest you contact the proper authorities and the IRA with any gripes you might have. The homeless are FG/FF's responsibility. The Paul Quinn murder has zero to do with ML or SF and Bertie Ahern, when leading Ireland stated nothing to do with the IRA either.

    Here's another issue for FF/FG to dodge in this jurisdiction:

    As I thought, once again, different rules for Sinn Fein.

    It is transparently laughable.


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  • #3421
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    As I thought, once again, different rules for Sinn Fein.

    It is transparently laughable.

    In short, people have every right and duty to call the Irish government out on Irish issues.


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