General Election TV debates

thequarefellow · 05-02-2020 12:58PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is it it a hundred years of FF/FG failure exactly they keep getting elected they must be doing something right?

They came out from a civil war, created a constitution joined the EU, deceased Independence on the UK, improved our infrastructure, attracted foreign investment, liberalised society etc.

--

Also the problem with rip of property in dublin is that Irish people still want gardens and houses (in the DNA). If Ireland built upwards like many other cities it would solve a lot of the problem

But they haven't done so. There are countless examples of attractive high rise living all over Europe. I've lived in some. Just f***ing do it! Go abroad, look at good examples of same, with the necessary infrastructure, and do it! But they haven't.
I would argue that people don't necessarily want gardens judging by the amount of neglected gardens that I see everywhere. Kids don't even play in gardens anymore. And social housing should be a case of take it or leave it anyway.

05-02-2020 12:59PM

Necro wrote: »

I just don't like him on a personal level but I guess if he helped you fair enough.

Because they'd be slaughtered like the green and Labour candidates will be in the polls

People just don't vote outside the big 3 (or Harkin for whatever reason)

What do you think of Renua?

I know people go on about them being pro life but abortion legislation is now set in stone so they can appeal to those who are pro life in the knowledge that it won’t change anything.

I like where they say politicians AND public servants should be held accountable for their actions and waste. Any other candidate just says they want to invest in health and that’s not helping the health crisis imo.

Idbatterim · 05-02-2020 12:59PM

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FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know what will happen.

I have theories I have expressed here that could see them in government.

But theories aside, I am sure of one thing, my vote will go towards reducing the power of FF and FG to cling on, a bit more.

I don’t think sf will be part of government this time. However , they will take seats from ffg. And we are one more term of failure away from the chuckle brothers possibly having mlmd as Taoiseach !

Idbatterim · 05-02-2020 01:01PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

What do you think of Renua?

I know people go on about them being pro life but abortion legislation is now set in stone so they can appeal to those who are pro life in the knowledge that it won’t change anything.

I like where they say politicians AND public servants should be held accountable for their actions and waste. Any other candidate just says they want to invest in health and that’s not helping the health crisis imo.

Yeah I’ll vote Remus also , don’t think they’ll win seats though. A good part squandered when there are big issues effecting is every day on a single divisive issue that was never going to be an ongoing saga , it’s done and dusted like you say and that was likely always the more likely outcome

marieholmfan · 05-02-2020 01:01PM

thequarefellow wrote: »

But they haven't done so. There are countless examples of attractive high rise living all over Europe. I've lived in some. Just f***ing do it! Go abroad, look at good examples of same, with the necessary infrastructure, and do it! But they haven't.
I would argue that people don't necessarily want gardens judging by the amount of neglected gardens that I see everywhere. Kids don't even play in gardens anymore. And social housing should be a case of take it or leave it anyway.

The problems attributed to high rise flats exist in Summerhill in Dublin and Moyross in Limerick and Crumlin and Neilstown and Fettercairn. Essentially they are policing problems.

It is a statement of fact that the Gardai did far more to stop Communities Concerned About Drugs then they ever did or have done to stop drug dealing.

I wonder why.

Necro · 05-02-2020 01:04PM

Idbatterim wrote:

I donâ€™t think sf will be part of government this time. However , they will take seats from ffg. And we are one more term of failure away from the chuckle brothers possibly having mlmd as Taoiseach !

As Taoiseach? LOL

Sinn Fein would need 50 something seats minimally to be more than the junior party in government. They will gain MAYBE 5 seats in this election imho.

Which brings them to 28.

And you think that one term is going to see a massive swing of nearly 30 seats??? To Sinn Fein?

LOL

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 01:06PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Its 2020 now. We have boil notices , overflowing sewage into Dublin bay , much untreated sewage goes into All of our waters. No new rail line other than the mickey Mouse luas , No new rail line laid in over hundred years. Sorry, what infrastructure? Other than the worlds most expensive hospital ? I have to give them that !

And you know why we have boil notices in 2020 now because of the protests from the fringe left on water charges. The luas works perfectly fine and is a great system to get around the place. More eco friendly as well.

As regards infrastructure - the M17 M8, and M20 came out of thin air did they?

realdanbreen · 05-02-2020 01:09PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know what will happen.

I have theories I have expressed here that could see them in government.

But theories aside, I am sure of one thing, my vote will go towards reducing the power of FF and FG to cling on, a bit more.

And you said earlier that you hadn't voted SF in the past. Why was that Francie?

thequarefellow · 05-02-2020 01:12PM

If FF form a government it will be with a minor party and independents. They will be in power for the inevitable downturn in the economy that is coming. (US economy has been booming for a record amount of time, it's due a downturn and when the US farts, Ireland shudders. Couple that with Brexit) The recession will be blamed on the minor party as always (Greens, PD's, Labour etc.) and FF will remain a political force in this country.
Sf wont get into power this time so they will dodge the blame also.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 01:13PM

realdanbreen wrote: »

And you said earlier that you hadn't voted SF in the past. Why was that Francie?

I have a reason for not voting for the candidate here.

I have always given them a vote in local elections (for the massive work their local reps do) and in the presidential election when MMcG ran. I din't vote for them in the most recent one.

Exemplary behaviour for a 'bot' in the pay of SF and up all night defending them, I am sure you'll agree. :rolleyes:

piplip87 · 05-02-2020 01:14PM

Sir Oxman wrote: »

..And that's where you fall down.

It's not though. It's what I see on my social media feeds. The ones shouting loudest on social media are the ones who have benefitted from government policy over the last few years....

They are the ones who lost 5 or 6 quid a week during the recession, the ones who are in a social house with medical cards etc.... Permanent jobseekers....

They are the ones who should be thanking Leo for keeping Thier lifestyles in check while the ordinary worker was screwed.

05-02-2020 01:15PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And you know why we have boil notices in 2020 now because of the protests from the fringe left on water charges. The luas works perfectly fine and is a great system to get around the place. More eco friendly as well.

As regards infrastructure - the M17 M8, and M20 came out of thin air did they?

I have no problem paying for water but I did have a serious issue with how it was set up and the jobs for the boys element to it.

And don’t get me started on quangos. There’s hundreds of them and they all get funding even though many have the same remit as each other. How much money is wasted in that?

Sorry, I’m ranting.

thequarefellow · 05-02-2020 01:28PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I have no problem paying for water but I did have a serious issue with how it was set up and the jobs for the boys element to it.

Same here. No problem paying for clean water, on tap, to my kitchen. But the way Irish water was set up was infuriating, with the bonus culture creeping in there soon after set up. And the circus that followed! FG and FF's Brian Cowan deserve blame here.

Bottled water is 2000 times more expensive than tap water and yet Irish people were happy to spend €76m on the stuff in one year, with all the plastic pollution that that entails.

realdanbreen · 05-02-2020 01:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have a reason for not voting for the candidate here.

I have always given them a vote in local elections (for the massive work their local reps do) and in the presidential election when MMcG ran. I din't vote for them in the most recent one.

Exemplary behaviour for a 'bot' in the pay of SF and up all night defending them, I am sure you'll agree. :rolleyes:

Exemplary Comrade, your day will come!

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 01:34PM

Necro wrote: »

As Taoiseach? LOL

Sinn Fein would need 50 something seats minimally to be more than the junior party in government. They will gain MAYBE 5 seats in this election imho.

Which brings them to 28.

And you think that one term is going to see a massive swing of nearly 30 seats??? To Sinn Fein?

LOL

25% of the vote with candidates at the same level as the two main parties would see a massive increase in seats. Push the percentage vote up and it isn't hard to see a landslide result to an election.

That's why SF will be very happy if FF and FG conspire to stay in government in one form or another.
It is also why FG will be very reticent to go in with FF too, leaving Martin in an equally interesting situation.

So interesting days ahead if SF maintain a high teen or low 20's showing on Saturday.

KrustyUCC · 05-02-2020 01:40PM

Water John wrote: »

Don't think any one in FG or FF were putting words into Conor Murphy's mouth, which MLMc then denied he said, but then was confronted with the evidence.

This really was not a good look for MLMD or SF

"Miriam O’Callaghan (MO’C): Mary Lou McDonald you know of course about Breege Quinn, the mother of Paul Quinn, the 21-year-old who was so horrifically beaten to death in November 2007. She is asking for an apology from your minister for finance in the North, Conor Murphy, because he aligned her son to criminality. You were due to speak to minister Murphy today — did you speak to him to clarify?

Mary Lou McDonald (MM): I did Miriam, and you’re right. Paul Quinn got a horrific death and the only criminals, to be clear, involved in this scenario were the people who so cruelly and viciously took his life. I have spoken to Conor. He is aware that the comments he made after the murder of Paul Quinn have caused hurt and that hurt has endured. So he apologises for those remarks. He withdraws those remarks and he’ll speak to Breege Quinn and the family directly. I’ve had the view that he needs to speak to the family directly.

MO’C : I was watching you last night being interviewed by Bryan Dobson and you said then, and this is a quote from you: “I have spoken to Conor Murphy about this issue before. He is very clear that he never said that, that that is not his view.”

MM: Yes.

MO’C: So you’ve changed your position?

MM: In a way, Miriam, what matters is what the family have heard and what matters is that the family . . .

MO’C: What matters is what he said, because, actually, we found the quote today. It was on the BBC in November 2007, a month after Paul was murdered, and what minister Murphy said and I’ll quote him again verbatim on the BBC: “Paul Quinn was involved in smuggling and criminality. I think everyone accepts that. As I say, this is a very difficult situation as there is a family grieving and I don’t want to add to their grief.”

MM: So, look, let me just say those things should not have been said. Those things should not have been said. Conor withdraws them and apologises . . .

MO’C: But last night you said they weren’t said.

MM: Pardon me?

MO’C: Last night you said they weren’t said.

MM: To be honest with you Miriam, my recollection was that he had not been as explicit as that. The remarks were wrong. They are withdrawn, correctly, and will be apologised for directly to Mrs Quinn and to her family . . .

MO’C: So your remarks to Bryan last night were wrong too?

MM: Yes. Well, obviously I was not . . . I remembered Conor being not quite as direct on this matter.

MO’C: But he had told you that he is very clear, you said, that he never said that and that is not his view. He had told you he had never said that. Were you annoyed that he had said that?

MM: That’s not it. My sole concern in this is that the family have been hurt and the remarks made need to be withdrawn and apologised for — that’s the correct thing to do and that’s what Conor will do.

MO’C: So Conor Murphy is going to apologise to Breege Quinn?

MM: Absolutely. It is the correct and decent thing to do. A family that has lost their son in such brutal circumstances doesn’t need the additional hurt and grief of those remarks.

MO’C: And, finally, I heard Breege Quinn on Drivetime, actually, talking to Mary Wilson and she also just said that she would like minister Murphy to go to the PSNI or the gardaí and just give the names of the men, the IRA men in Cullyhanna he spoke to. Would he do that as well do you think because Breege Quinn wants that?

MM: What I am sure of, and I’m sure of these facts having spoken again to Conor, is that he has in fact spoken to the PSNI and to the gardaí. They have to investigate this matter. People with information need to bring it to . . .

MO’C: And given the names of the men he spoke to?

MM: . . . need to bring that information forward.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-debate-transcript-of-paul-quinn-question-put-to-mcdonald-1.4162434

Mary Lou won't get Murphy to resign though

Edgware · 05-02-2020 01:40PM

marieholmfan wrote: »

The problems attributed to high rise flats exist in Summerhill in Dublin and Moyross in Limerick and Crumlin and Neilstown and Fettercairn. Essentially they are policing problems.

It is a statement of fact that the Gardai did far more to stop Communities Concerned About Drugs then they ever did or have done to stop drug dealing.

I wonder why.

That is absolute rubbish. C.P.A D. members ( also linked with.S.F.) kicked a poor drug addict Josie Dwyerto death in Dolphins Barn. Josie was in a severe stage of addiction, physically very weak and a soft target for the hard men.
Some of the thugs were given prison sentences for the killing.
The Guards have put many leading drug dealers behind bars

Idbatterim · 05-02-2020 01:45PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And you know why we have boil notices in 2020 now because of the protests from the fringe left on water charges. The luas works perfectly fine and is a great system to get around the place. More eco friendly as well.

As regards infrastructure - the M17 M8, and M20 came out of thin air did they?

The luas in a fine system? I’m back here later sending you a link o a thread on boards about the shot show it is. No , we don’t have water charges but cause ffg are spineless. That’s why. While initially I thought they were a sound idea , there’d e exemptions for all the usual suspects and the other usual suspects would end up paying for everything !

Call me Al · 05-02-2020 01:46PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There never was a doubt in my mind that SF were a party emerging from a conflict/war situation. That is never an easy thing to do nor an easy thing to navigate. The early years of our own emergence as a state was littered with acrimonious allegations and accusations, so much so that it was decided to lock away testimonies until the people involved were dead.

But I have also long ago accepted that SF have put that behind them.
The allegations still come when they put their heads too far over the parapet, from people who couldn't give a hoot about the victims when SF are offering no threat electorally.
I think SF's surge shows that more and more people are also accepting this and recognising what FG and FF are doing when they exploit victims and their families.

But Francie,
This murder was only 12 years ago.
12 years.
Not 50 years or 40 years back in the troubles.
This murder has nothing to do with war.

The mother herself is pushing for these answers and convictions, whilst her child's killers walk the streets around her.

Idbatterim · 05-02-2020 01:47PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And you know why we have boil notices in 2020 now because of the protests from the fringe left on water charges. The luas works perfectly fine and is a great system to get around the place. More eco friendly as well.

As regards infrastructure - the M17 M8, and M20 came out of thin air did they?

You hit the nail on the head. All these rural motorways, one area where no expense was spared ! And the one badly needed project the m20 between limerick and cork , not delivered. What a surprise!

markodaly · 05-02-2020 01:49PM

maccored wrote: »

says the northern expert

Well at least I dont want Chinese building standards in Ireland, and all that entails.

maccored · 05-02-2020 01:51PM

Call me Al wrote: »

But Francie,
This murder was only 12 years ago.
12 years.
Not 50 years or 40 years back in the troubles.
This murder has nothing to do with war.

The mother herself is pushing for these answers and convictions, whilst her child's killers walk the streets around her.

what has that to do with SF though, in this election?

maccored · 05-02-2020 01:53PM

markodaly wrote: »

Well at least I dont want Chinese building standards in Ireland, and all that entails.

feel free to state where I said I wanted Chinese building standards, oh supporter of the most expensive hospital in the world. more waffle.

Call me Al · 05-02-2020 01:58PM

maccored wrote: »

what has that to do with SF though, in this election?

The party's reaction has everything to do with this election.

markodaly · 05-02-2020 01:59PM

maccored wrote: »

feel free to state where I said I wanted Chinese building standards, oh supporter of the most expensive hospital in the world. more waffle.

Not at all.
You drew a false equivalence into the NCH and the Chinese 'hospital' (more like prefabs) that was built in 10 days, as if it's a valid comparison.

Its also not the most expensive hospital in the world but in the world of post-facts, I don't care either way.

KrustyUCC · 05-02-2020 02:00PM

Breege Quinn finally forced Mary Lou into a corner, but it took an election - not simple human decency from SF - to get an apology
Mairia Cahill

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/breege-quinn-finally-forced-mary-lou-into-a-corner-but-it-took-an-election-not-simple-human-decency-from-sf-to-get-an-apology-38929296.html

The clip of Murphy on the BBC is linked to in the article along with Gerry Adams view at the time

Funny that Mary Lou believed “I have spoken to Conor Murphy about this issue before. He is very clear that he never said that, that that is not his view.”

smurgen · 05-02-2020 02:04PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Breege Quinn finally forced Mary Lou into a corner, but it took an election - not simple human decency from SF - to get an apology
Mairia Cahill

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/breege-quinn-finally-forced-mary-lou-into-a-corner-but-it-took-an-election-not-simple-human-decency-from-sf-to-get-an-apology-38929296.html

The clip of Murphy on the BBC is linked to in the article along with Gerry Adams view at the time

Funny that Mary Lou believed “I have spoken to Conor Murphy about this issue before. He is very clear that he never said that, that that is not his view.”

Don't really care to be honest and to be fair Bertie Ahearn more or less said the same thing about the lad but I didn't see MM being asked about it last night. But anyway keep up the IRA SF drum because I tell you what. The tactic is going for backfire spectacularly.
The average Joe cares about their bottom line and FG is refusing to address it. Two thousand people protesting about childcare in Dublin today. Yet government and RTE fail to acknowledge this.

maccored · 05-02-2020 02:07PM

Call me Al wrote: »

The party's reaction has everything to do with this election.

that Murphy went to see if he could find out what had happened? I hate to mention it but what if he's telling the truth? He even said himself at the time it wasnt the kind of thing to be talking about since a family was suffering - yet here it is 12 years later being dragged out as a political football.

youre basically telling me he would have been better to not bother trying to find out any info for the family at all.

maccored · 05-02-2020 02:08PM

markodaly wrote: »

Not at all.
You drew a false equivalence into the NCH and the Chinese 'hospital' (more like prefabs) that was built in 10 days, as if it's a valid comparison.

Its also not the most expensive hospital in the world but in the world of post-facts, I don't care either way.

and that equates to wanting Chinese building regulations in ireland? Whatever the hell youre smoking, can I have some?

markodaly · 05-02-2020 02:10PM

maccored wrote: »

and that equates to wanting Chinese building regulations in ireland? Whatever the hell youre smoking, can I have some?

So why bring it up as some sort of benchmark we should be aiming for?

'Oh look, the Chinese can build a hospital in ten days, why can't we do that?'
People who take the above point as gospel are useful idiots.

General Election TV debates

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